LM and her husband, while helping a green card holder deal with his situation, came across the following on the Montréal Consulate’s website, which contains this excerpt:
“If you wish to file for the Abandonment of Lawful Permanent Resident Status you may visit the U.S. Consulate General in Montreal without an appointment on any Wednesday between 2PM and 3PM.
Please bring the following documents:
• Proof of identity;
• Your green card and a copy;
• A reentry permit (even expired), if applicable, and a copy;
• A completed I-407 (601KB PDF) form and a copy.”
Re the other consulates in Canada, only Toronto mentions green card abandonment. Toronto’s instructions offer the options of appearing at the consulate or mailing it in. I note that Toronto says, “We will return a copy of your completed I-407 to you as your receipt.”
I checked a few consulate websites worldwide – the first three that came up were:
London: appear at embassy or mail to embassy
Athens: appear at embassy
Canberra: mail to embassy
So, it varies from place to place (what else is new?), but if you live relatively near a consulate or embassy, it may be worth checking with them to see if you can bring in your I-407 in person and get a receipt on the spot.
Also at LM‘s suggestion, I’ve created a link-list to all Brock posts regarding green cards, which is in the sidebar under “List of Links by Subject.”
“LM and her husband, while helping a greed card holder deal with his situation…”
“Greed card.” I like it. That accurately depicts the claims of the USA, driven by greed, against those who accept them.
I was advised via e-mail by the Calgary consulate that I could mail my I-407 form directly to the USCIS office and was provided with an address in Mesquite, TX. I submitted a package (sent by registered mail) to the USCIS which contained my completed I-407 form, my 30 year old green card, an attached statement regarding line 6(a), a copy of a letter to vouch for my residence in Canada and a stamped, self addressed envelope. According to the online mail tracker this package was successfully delivered to the USCIS and someone there did sign for it. However, the registered mail receipt attached to the envelope was not returned to me.
It’s been 3 years now and I have not received my I-407 with the official stamp of approval. Follow-up inquiries as to the status of my I-407 were never responded to by the USCIS and the Calgary consulate said they could not help. So I gave up on all this 2 years ago. I thought I was the only one who failed to get an I-407 but apparently the wife of Gordian in Australia is in the same situation.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/08/19/south-korean-diaspora-policy-and-the-thirty-five-thousand-us-green-card-holders-living-in-south-korea/comment-page-1/#comment-493816
@ notamused,
Re:
Oops. What an typo! I fixed it. Thanks for catching it and for your comment about it!
You do need it for FATCA in Canada. An I407 will put you USA exit tax rule.
Canada Government website
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/ndvdls-eng.html
“I hold a U.S. green card. How does this affect my tax residency?
If you are a green card holder (that is, a lawful permanent resident of the U.S.), the U.S. considers you to be a U.S. resident.
However, if you are a resident of Canada for tax purposes and do not hold U.S. citizenship, you should not identify yourself as a U.S. person to your Canadian financial institution.”
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/ndvdls-eng.html
@ news
Yes, that’s one of the threads I cling to but you have to remember that anyone with the dreaded SS number is “on their books” and can be attacked from the south. I don’t perceive the Canadian government as much of a shield these days.
for rational people
Green Carder who live in Canada are considered resident of Canada (especially if you have not live in USA for a long time. I think Green Card are not valid if you leave a country for more than a year.
Canada USA Tax Treaty
“Article IV
Residence
1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term “resident” of a Contracting State means any person that, under the laws of that State, is liable to tax therein by reason of that person’s domicile, residence, citizenship, place of management, place of incorporation or any other criterion of a similar nature, but in the case of an estate or trust, only to the extent that income derived by the estate or trust is liable to tax in that State, either in its hands or in the hands of its beneficiaries. For the purposes of this paragraph, an individual who is not a resident of Canada under this paragraph and who is a United States citizen or an alien admitted to the United States for permanent residence (a “green card” holder) is a resident of the United States only if the individual has a substantial presence, permanent home or habitual abode in the United States, and that individual’s personal and economic relations are closer to the United States than to any third State. The term “resident” of a Contracting State is understood to include:
http://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/usa_-eng.asp
additionally from Canada government
“IRS Publication 519 states that the U.S. domestic rules that determine if a non-U.S. citizen is a U.S. resident do not override tax treaty definitions of residency. If you are considered a resident of Canada and the U.S. under each country’s laws and the Canada–U.S. tax treaty considers you a resident of Canada, the U.S. has to treat you as a non-resident taxpayer and you should not identify yourself as a U.S. resident to your Canadian financial institution.”
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/fq-eng.html#q2-5
The IGA only asked talked about citizen and resident individual. I am not certain that for US citizens the exit taxes has to be done to be considered a non US person.
@ news
“I think Green Card are not valid if you leave a country for more than a year.”
Yes, that’s true as far as the State Dept. is concerned (and according to all reason) but the IRS still deems you to be a “US resident for tax purposes” until the green card is formally surrendered. Trouble is, many years ago only a few more informed US green card holders were aware there was such paperwork to do. Even our dearly missed Arrow (Don Whitley), a well-informed BC journalist, was unaware of this at the time of his return. Back in 2013 he wrote:
EmBee,
The green card fiasco (different rules for immigration and for US CBT resident for tax purposes) is one of the prime examples of how we are being criminalized only because of our ignorance as that information / education was not provided to us in our schooling or any communications to us — and to this day is not. Potential green card holders are not getting the information they need to make such an important decision as becoming a permanent resident of a new country, having instead to get (if they’re lucky) that vital information, that will affect their and their families’ lives, through an underground grapevine.
There must somehow from now on be better due diligence on the part of anyone knocking on the US door — but, more importantly, there must be real education on the complex and hidden consequences (to those who come from countries with RBT and assume RBT would be the norm) of US citizenship-based taxation law.
Why are you guys concerned about living with the GC abroad? FATCA doesn’t apply to you. I mean, it does teoretically, but your place of birth is non-U.S. so unless you are stupid enough to talk about your status in the U.S. they have no way of reporting your bank account to the IRS.
@Pacifica777
Now that’s a slip if there even was one. “D” isn’t even NEAR “N” on the keyboard!
@EmBee
I’m sorry you still haven’t gotten any resolution to your predicament. Never say never though. I look forward to the day you are officially out of the tentacles of the vampire squid!
@ BertDome
I get your point. The potential harm doesn’t always come from a FATCA bank report but from the fact that anyone who was issued a green card (i.e. has an SS number) and didn’t properly surrender it is at risk of IRS harassment. After the FATCA IGA betrayal a person really can’t trust the Canadian government to not submit to future US demands. Furthermore, in some countries, banks are now asking the FATCA question in such a way as to force a confession of being a “US person for tax purposes”. It’s vital for EVERYONE with a US taint to fight for the repeal of FATCA.
@ Bubblebustin
I have trouble even defining my predicament, let alone thinking about how to get out of it.
Maybe this helps describe it, EmBee:
http://youtu.be/NzlG28B-R8Y
@ Bubblebustin
LOL … yep that does it!
“BertDome says
March 5, 2015 at 11:38 pm
Why are you guys concerned about living with the GC abroad? FATCA doesn’t apply to you. I mean, it does teoretically, but your place of birth is non-U.S. so unless you are stupid enough to talk about your status in the U.S. they have no way of reporting your bank account to the IRS.”
It does even apply in Canada, if you live in Canada. The Canada government has clearly stated it.
@ news:
what the Canadian government has stated?
In general.
I stopped worrying about the whole CBT and FATCAs long time ago. I was green card for a long time until I became American, then I moved back to my country of origin where I am now. In fact, CBT and FATCA clearly violates the constitution rights. Why should I even listen to something that is against the constitution? If you think about it, even the American income tax is not constitutional, and many Americans still get away not filing their annual tax returns while living stateside, and they owe tax money in fact.
I will tell you that I am not compliant, but I also don’t make a whole a lot of money so I doubt I owe the American government a cent anyways. Even though we have CBT, it is RBT in the field, because thats how everybody with a brain in head understands it. CBT was invented during civil war, it is obsolete, and nobody enforces that.
I will support and donate something to fight the FATCA, but as I said before I am not stressing about it. Not to the point that I would actually think of renouncing my hard earned citizenship, which took so long to get. There is, what 7 million, Americans living abroad. How many of them know about CBT and FATCA? How many got prosecuted and found guilty?
I think you can do more damage to yourself by renouncing and giving away your green card then just flying under the radar if you will. By giving up your passport you clearly point to yourself like “Hey I am here!!!” In addition to that you are also risking not being able to come back ever again.
@ BertDome
Not going back THERE again isn’t a problem for me. I haven’t been THERE for about 20 years (decided for reasons other than CBT/FBAR/FATCA that I wouldn’t go THERE). Good luck with “flying under the radar”. You are more fortunate than most Americans “in the field” because you don’t have “born in the USA” stamped on your other passport which should take you safely even to THERE and back. Be aware though that they may, in the future, set up border computers to cross-reference with the IRS when someone enters and leaves the country with a US passport. (They are already set to compute the total number of days spent in the USA in a year.) However, this would likely be for someone who owes the IRS a very large sum and I’m not sure if the legislation has even been passed yet.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/no-taxes-no-travel-why-the-irs-wants-the-right-to-seize-your-passport/255940/
BTW, FATCA is the enforcer of CBT. It’s still in the infancy of its enforcing. We’d like to make sure it doesn’t get into early childhood.
I understand that FATCA is making it hard for U.S. born people. I am all for RBT and abolishing laws that don’t make sense, like FATCA. Who is stopping lawmakers from creating any rule, like for instance, “whoever ever had a US passport or green card is now subject to US taxation” even though the person no longer has it? Don’t argue with fool. By fool I mean certain people in the government. A stick is easily found to beat a dog. The dog is you, and there is only so much you can do.
What we all have to do is to fight for smaller governments with less influence. That’s the only solution.
We still have constitution. And we do have “other laws”. Which law should you obey? Which one is of higher priority to you? What if a law is in direct violation to what the constitution says?
I still have hope that healthy common sense will win. If the justice isn’t served and your most essential freedom rights are taken away, then THE country is not a place to be, and it doesn’t even matter what THE country considers you to be THEIR citizen (for tax purposes) or not. At that time you just need to flee, run away and don’t look back.
It appears the legislation I mentioned in my last comment did pass. How long will it be before the $50,000 or more threshold is lowered?
From wikipedia:
More from wikipedia …
Pacifica Can you please edit this thread and include the Canadian Government comment to Green Carder.
Why should they go through exit taxes nonsense, when they do not need it for Canadian FATCA.
“I hold a U.S. green card. How does this affect my tax residency?
“If you are a green card holder (that is, a lawful permanent resident of the U.S.), the U.S. considers you to be a U.S. resident.
However, if you are a resident of Canada for tax purposes and do not hold U.S. citizenship, you should not identify yourself as a U.S. person to your Canadian financial institution.”
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/ndvdls-eng.html
@ news
The CRA FAQ re: green card holders has been repeated multiple times on Brock but yes, it would be nice to have it appear in the post.
Okay with you @pacifica777? BTW, thanks for setting this section up.
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@ News and EmBee,
Good idea! It’s not directly related to termination of green cards, but it is very important. So, I started a new thread ”Green Card Holders and FATCA” with it.
Re: “BTW, thanks for setting this section up.”
You’re welcome — and thanks to LM for suggesting we have a green card page.
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There’s a NEW FORM for abandoning US permanent residency:
…”Now, the individual is required to state the reasons for abandoning lawful permanent residency status.
Responses to each of these questions will have important legal consequences, including potential tax implications under IRC Sections 877, 877A, et. seq. See, for instance a prior post: What could be the focal point of IRS Criminal Investigations of Former U.S. Citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents?”…
http://tax-expatriation.com/2015/04/03/more-information-and-more-information-uscis-creates-new-form-for-abandonment-of-lawful-permanent-residency/