Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Posted on by Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 62 Comments

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“We the people”: Your voice in the US government: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/tax-us-citizens-residency-and-not-citizenship-remove-fatca-requirements-we-already-pay-taxes-abroad/dwZ1c5wL

You can also comment at this CNBC International YouTube link — click on “YouTube” in the lower right-hand corner of this video …

Related for answers to this: WSJ Expat: When American Expats Don’t Want Their Kids to Have U.S. Citizenship

62 thoughts on “Why Are Americans Giving Up Citizenship? — CNBC International”

  1. She says “When you get caught between 2 tax systems, you don`t get the benefit of either system”
    So well said. Nope- you get screwed!

  2. Generally a good video, but they’re reporting the expatriation numbers taken from the list of names in the Federal Register as if that is an accurate figure. We here at IBS know it is very much an underestimate of actual numbers. Why can’t someone get through to journalists that the actual numbers are higher than reported in the Federal Register and that the State Department is keeping them secret? Journalists: Ask the State Department how many Certificates of Loss of Nationality (CLNs) they have been approving each year.

  3. We’ve asked the Department of State that very question previously, AnonAnon. As seen otherwise, the Department of State does not give straight answers to our questions. If they even had numbered CLNs, that would surely help answer the specific question of *how many?* rather than allow Treasury to continue to post its quarterly low-ball figures of expatriations with no rhyme nor reason either for whether the list is for *covered expatriates* as there are many who have reported here (as I have) that they are surely not *covered* but made the ‘Name and Shame’ list anyway.

  4. This whole business with CBT and the mindset of Homelanders is the Geo W Bush mentality ‘You’re with us or without us – and oh don’t forget to pay your taxes if you live abroad.’

    The IRS may get the data, but getting any money owed because some IRS tax calculation doesn’t jive with the local country’s will be a different story.

    People will fight tooth and nail. Boris just wanted to clear the deck and allow himself freedom of travel to progress his agenda. He knows if he becomes PM, he’ll make up any US tax paid in speaking engagements / more books later on.

    However from Boris’ point of view, once bitten twice shy. The IRS won’t collect in the long term.

  5. The article says that China, as well as the US and Eritrea, has citizenship-based taxation. Can anyone verify this?

  8. Actually, the speaker names citizenship-based tax grabbers as: USA, Eritrea, and North Korea — the tax axis of evil.

  9. It is also worth mentioning every time we cite the low ball numbers that in addition to the record numbers who renounced or relinquished last year there are certainly hundreds if not more who couldn’t get appointments until some time this year but certainly would have already renounced if their right to do so was being respected in a timely manner.

  11. Keith Redmond’s take on it:

    Keith REDMOND ‏@kred65
    #FATCA The US is part of the ‘tax axis of evil’: North Korea, Eritrea, US http://youtu.be/GQVWu9btCtA

    I hope ‘tax axis of evil’ sticks. All the commenters talking about Eritrea might also mention the Tax Axis of Evil.

    Note that Jonathan Tepper features prominently in this. Perhaps he instigated the video. He is another example of a US person who has renounced, but fights on against the injustices.

  13. I renounced in early 2014 and my name was just published on the latest quarterly report. I am definitely not covered but they have no way of knowing that at this point as I have not yet filed the 8854. My wife renounced shortly afterwards and has not yet appeared on the list.

    It is a shambolic piece of bureaucracy that a banana republic would be ashamed of.

  14. @RLee I am not so sure that North Korea is such a ‘bad boy’ in regards to taxation of its subjects abroad. The country has been called the as part of the Axis of Evil:

    U.S. President George W. Bush used the term Axis of evil in his State of the Union Address on January 29, 2002, and often repeated it throughout his presidency, to describe governments that he accused of helping terrorism and seeking weapons of mass destruction. Iran, Iraq, and North Korea were portrayed by George W. Bush during the State of the Union as building nuclear weapons. The Axis of Evil was used to pinpoint these common enemies of the United States and rally the country in support of the War on Terror.

    So if one is talking about a “Tax Axis of Evil” inclusion of North Korea is more attention getting while people may not have heard of Eritrea.

  15. AnonAnon,

    Note one comment to the WSJ Expat article:

    jtns wrote:

    im a retired fso who spent my 28 year career all as a consular officer overseas. it almost seems that 9/11 was used as a pretext by the u.s. to wage war on our own overseas americans: exorbitant fees for consular services, inaccesible embassies, hard to get appts to see a consular officer, facta, closing of overseas irs assistance offices, a washington bureaucracy that really does not ‘care.’ by the time i retired in 2011 i was almost ashamed, overseas americans deserve much, much better.

  16. North Korea doesn’t have CBT. In fact, it doesn’t have taxes at all, except on resident foreigners (RBT) and nonresidents (of any citizenship, only on North Korean income). Instead of taxes, the government basically owns everything. The idea that North Korea has CBT comes from an incorrect interpretation of North Koreans working abroad. The North Korean government makes contracts with foreign companies and sends its citizens to work there, but the companies only pay a whole amount to the North Korean government, which in turns pays a salary to the workers. Apparently the government keeps most of the money, but it’s not really a tax, it’s a subcontract. North Koreans who manage to leave the country on their own are not taxed by North Korea on their foreign income.

    So it’s not even an axis, it’s just two. But you can also compare with the countries that used to have CBT: Soviet Union, Bulgaria, Vietnam (communist countries), Myanmar (military dictatorship), Mexico and the Philippines (democracies but copied the US tax code as a neighbor or former US territory). And all of them eventually abolished CBT.

  17. I don’t like the “Tax Axis of Evil” thing. It has a catchy ring to it but there’s only ONE significant player in CBT and that’s the USA. It is odd man out and needs to join the RBT game and SOON!

  18. It would be interesting to know why Mexico, the Phillippines other countries abolished CBT.
    Is there any public record of the reasoning? Was it to stem a hemorrhaging of citizens, for example?

  22. Thanks, Jak Dac.

    I’ve updated the post with the YouTube link and mentioned that we can comment there.

  23. Hit YouTube link and copy and paste your comment here

    MANY MANY more people are drawn to youtube and it will be a popular video with many hits

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