First of all, an incredibly important and successful day with regard to the video submission to be made to the Senate Finance Committee. I heard every single moment and the effect of each of the speakers was amazingly powerful. Each participant had a different and substantive angle that addressed the issues expats face. What was so marvelous about it was that it all balanced beautifully without any conscious effort to make it do so.
We cannot wait for this to be compiled and distributed. Stay tuned!
The written testimonies and harvested comments are coming along.
The focus of all this is to demonstrate the harm done to #Americansabroad by the U.S. Government. On June 15, 2013, a meeting was held in Toronto which was designed to allow those affected to speak freely, to express the harm they felt from the actions of the US, without any fear of being recorded, photographed etc. The shared and dominant reaction that day was fear and terror. What is interesting now, is to read the comment of a non-US person, completely unconnected to the issue had to say about it. See below. The contrast today? Anger and defiance!
June 2013 – Obama’s IRS and the effect on U.S. citizens abroad
What follows are the observations of a non-U.S. citizen of a meeting of U.S. citizens abroad who have been traumatized by the IRS. This is simply incredible. It explains why many U.S. citizens abroad live in a state of terror, trauma and fear. What do they fear? They fear the government of that “great citadel of freedom and justice” – the United States of America.
I have always been under the impression that many people sacrifice their lives, families, etc. in order to get into the USA and become American citizens; and I never imagined that anyone who has this “privilege” is willing to do anything and everything to renounce their U.S. citizenship.
Recently, I met a group of people in Toronto who were claiming that they have been traumatized by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and its rules. My understanding from this rule, The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), is IRS requires US persons to report their financial accounts outside of USA.
At first glance this issue didn’t seem to be a problem with this issue, and the first question that popped up in my mind was, why are these so called “US citizens” having problems complying with their civic duties; after all, Canadian citizens are also required to report their income, gains, losses, and assets to Canada Revenue Agency (CRA).
Then, I realized that the IRS and some US officials are working with foreign governments and financial institutions to become a vehicle to disclose private and confidential financial information of their American citizens and clients to the IRS. Now, I am thinking, why should Canadian tax money subsidize collection costs of a foreign agency? Don’t we have enough challenges in Canada that need immediate attention?
However, the momentum of this meeting changed drastically after just a couple of minutes, when the first attendee stood up to introduce herself, giving her reasons to be there, instead of enjoying the beautiful and pleasant weather, that Saturday morning.
A mature lady from the front row stood up, and said that she left US in the sixties, and has been in Canada, her new home, ever since, and she obtained her Canadian citizenship in the early nineties. She and her husband, who passed away a couple of years ago, considered themselves as good citizens, who paid their taxes, obeyed the law of the land, and raised their children with the same values.
She seemed to be very upset, apprehensive, and afraid of her future in her retirement years.Apparently, she has been notified, some time within the last three years, that she must comply with the new US rules, and is about to lose her life savings, which by the way were earned in Canada, by her and her late Canadian husband over the last forty years to IRS, because she was born in United States of America.
The second lady introduced herself and said that she came to Canada about 35 years ago, worked here and raised her family. She emphasized that all these years, she has been in compliance with IRS and its rules and regulations. She and her Canadian husband invested in a mutual fund over years in Canada. She broke down in tears just after a minute, as she described that recently she also has learned about rather confusing FATCA rules that could drastically affect her family in her retirement years.
The rest of the attendees followed suit and one by one described their circumstances and expressed their emotions in different ways, a few cried heavily, some were very angry, and many were extremely attentive and laser focussed, grasping as much information as they could that could help their situations.
These strangers, who have never met each other in the past, started to bond with each other, engaging, sharing their experiences, describing the circumstances they were in, offering the knowledge they have obtained in the last few short years, etc. for 6 continued hours under one roof.
In my short life I witnessed many people from many walks of life who cried in public for different reasons: loss of health, loved one, home, asset, career, passion, etc. However, it was painful to observe experienced grown men and women succumb to the pressure of “what if IRS does…., what will happen to me and my family.”
Probably FATCA was originally designed for those are involved with offshore tax evasion, and recover unpaid federal taxes, however, watching these people and their suffering tells me that there has not been sufficient consideration in recognizing different scenarios, or communicating with the public. I guess when there is a fire, wet and dry burn together.
We live in a violent world, and violence manifests itself into a variety of shapes and forms. Some of us are born to survive and some are here to fight with those who abuse their power. Either way there is a hefty toll has to be paid: financially, emotionally, and socially. Those who have the privilege of designing and deciding on policies that affect a significant portion of population should consider how their actions contribute to human progress.
Then there is the question of how much value a government allocates to patriotism. All these attendees expressed their genuine devotion to the idea of America and being American patriots, However many of them seriously consider the option of renouncing their citizenship, mainly because of the shortcomings of the present US administration. Neither money, nor force can replace the value of loyalty of citizens to their land and identity.Can a government afford to lose its most valuable assets – Its citizens!
On a different note, Tim has provided the link to the hearing yesterday in Washington DC, with Jim Butera representing the Florida Bankers Assn against the Treasury Department.
@ Tricia Moon
Still listening to and deciphering the Florida Bankers hearing tape (the judge seems a bit hostile) but the non-US citizen observations you quote come in crystal clear. In IRS/USA lingo a non-US citizen would be an alien I reckon.
Several statements are true:
1. FATCA has hurt a lot more average people than it has caught tax cheats.
2. FATCA high lights the need for another Tax code all together, such as the FairTax, a national sales tax.
3. The IRS cannot be reformed and must be disbanded. It is a rogue organization, a part of the fourth unconstitutional branch of government much like the Brown Shirts of German.
The Fla bankers case was a bit too lengthy and lawyer jargon for me to understand. Anybody able to summarise?
The banker’s case should be on another post.
The testimony is pretty unbelievable how uninformed the judges are.
And how off course the discussion is.
Here is my submission that I sent in:
The US Government has Been Unapologetically Un-American in its Increasingly Discriminatory Treatment of US Citizens Resident Overseas. A Fair Remedy is adoption of Residence Based Taxation.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca-and-australia/comment-page-1/#comment-5583560
@ Mark Twain
Perhaps you could make a separate post for the bankers tape. I was just too tired to do anything more with it but had promised I would get the link up so people could start listening. I will not have time to write a proper post as there is much to do to finish the written portions of the SFC submission.
It’s VERY important to inform Americans living IN the USA that they can no longer work in any other country in the world because of CBT and FATCA.
You see, when people FEEL concerned, they react 100 times more.
We absolutelly have to get the word out to journalists in the USA that they canot work permantly abroad anymore.
That’ll get them talking about the FATCA issue.
You’ll start hearing them say things like “Although FATCA was designed to catch tax cheats, it seems to be affecting all americans who just get sent abroad to work” and “Ordinary Americans sent abroad to work canot open up banking accounts, no one seems to want American citizens anymore”.
We have to talk about THEM,not only about us, we have to show that they are all trapped inside the US because of CBT and FATCA.
That is basic sales and marketing advice.
Talk to and about the customer, not about yourself.
That approach will get the word out IN the USA 100 times faster.
separate post now made. This post here can remain about the testimonies and not about the Florida case
@Tricia
Thanks for posting the “observations” because the observer initially didn’t realize–just like our banks and gov’t don’t realize–how much damage the IRS can inflict on its people with “foreign accounts”. After all, everyone in Canada has to file to with the CRA, and everyone in the USA has to file with the IRS, and the general public doesn’t think of these agencies as stealing people’s life savings.
Then the observer sat up and paid attention and wrote about it! I could just picture it. “US persons” have been put in a horrible situation. The IRS is authorized to punish tax cheats, so it can punish anyone with a “foreign account” who doesn’t comply with some nit-picky thing, e.g. assess a 10,000 U.S. dollar penalty PER YEAR for a mistake. This means every upper-middle, middle- and working-class “US person” is at risking of losing their life savings.
This is the one thing the Conservative Finance MPs refused to do–to pay attention to the letters and voices of people pleading for them to slow down and to protect people who’ve worked here in Canada their whole lives. The MPs signed the IGA that gave our privacy away, and within a few weeks, the renunciation fee shot up to about $ 3,000 Cdn. They don’t care what happens to us. They’re defending their IGA against our lawsuit.
The submissions to Congress are a very important tool to educate those in power in the US to see what they have done to people born in the USA. They need to see that this law has gone too far and is destroying relationships with all the countries in the world as they all know this was a “threatened” law forced on them. No country will ever “trust” the USA again. This is the truth plain and simple. For the efforts of our cause here, we will defeat our own government in court and force them to make ALL Canadians equal again. There is a huge metal shield laying on the ground. This shield is for protection from human rights violators. I cannot lift it up myself. With all the helping hands here and from around the world, we will lift it up and stand it up to our own government and the US government and tell them they will not get away with their violations!
@NativeCanadian,
Thank you for braving the awful weather from London to attend yesterday’s session.
It was a real pleasure for me to finally meet and chat with you (and the other brave Canadians).
Thanks for this report, Tricia! I’m so looking forward to hearing from all those who were there. My body and my soul were in two different places yesterday!
Tricia,
Thanks for this report of yesterday’s meeting and for all who made it happen. How I would love to have been there. You have permission to include my submission sent to you in any compilation you eventually publish.
Re:
Here is Mark Twain’s separate post: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/02/15/florida-bankers-assoc-versus-treasury-department-deliberations-begin/ for comments on that important subject.
Thanks again for all of your incredible hard work, Tricia!
The ADCS organizers and IBS Brockers and supporters yet again demonstrated their commitment and dedication to this fight against US extraterritorial citizenship/parentage/birthplace based taxation. It is always an honour and a pleasure to see you in action. I wish everyone could – what an inspiration you are to all of us!
Thank you for all of your good work on our behalf.
I’ve found huge inspiration in the words that a nation’s most valuable asset is its citizens, no matter where they choose to live in the universe. Until the US starts treating as such, our fight will not be over. America is losing its greatest asset abroad at alarming rates, it should take notice.
A huge thank-you to those who worked make this event happen!
@ JC
That’s a very comprehensive submission you made. Sinkhole vs. loophole is the perfect imagery for the tax form tom foolery the congress is complicit in creating.
@EmBee. Sinkhole not Loophole. I learned sinkhole at IBS. Other suggestions were tripwire and bear traps.
@ JC
I think I worded that wrong. I just meant using the term sinkhole is a good thing. There are no loopholes for Americans abroad, only sinkholes … and they keep creating more of them all the time.
I should publicly thank Trish, Stephen and John as well as the hard working videoographers. It is no small thing to host and organize something like this or to film and edit such long interviews!
It was fantastic to finally meet Native Canadian and all the others who attended. The weather was awful our way but, the meeting was enthusiastic and warm. Much love to everyone involved and to all of you.
If this is what can be done when the weather is the worst it has been in ten years around here think what can happen when it’s warm and easy to get around! Kudos to all of you for all the hard work you’ve done.
I was just wondering the time frame of it all? I was surprised to see Trica posting comments on threads/articles soon after this event, as I would imagine compiling it all would take some considerable time. Thank you once again for the incredible effort.
Is there a deadline to submit to yourselves/US Senate Finance Committee?
Will we see something like this?
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/here-is-what-canadians-said-on-fatca-iga-the-cons-didnt-listen/
AARO is taking parallel action:
Taxation Banking problems? Contact your legislators!
Published: 5 February 2015
Many Americans abroad are having trouble maintaining and opening bank accounts in the US and in their country of residence, due to FATCA, the Patriot Act, and current IRS policy. AARO is asking organizations of Americans abroad to send their members the attached model letter to their legislators concerning banking problems they may be having, to be adapted if they wish to their own situations.
The new Congress will be considering tax reform early in 2015 and it is very important that they hear from a maximum of Americans abroad on these issues, before it is too late. Too often, overseas Americans are forgotten in the legislative drafting process. We hope you and other American associations can prevent that from happening this time! We will be in Washington at the beginning of March: all messages received by then can only help our efforts there!
The AARO model letter has instructions on how to adapt and send it. It also has a link to the results of a 2008 study with estimates on the state-by-state population of overseas voters. Finally, it has a list of the key committee members (with their districts).
You can find the names, addresses, fax numbers and websites of your legislators at http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov. Members of the key committees are listed at the end of the model letter.
Many thanks for any assistance you can provide. Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have any questions (contact@aaro.org)
Was this a target session?
US Senate Finance Committee
March 10, 2015
Tax Complexity, Compliance, and Administration: The Merits of Simplification in Tax Reform
I sent a few Tweets today to the heads of the US Senate Finance Committee including link to my submission. I sent out five letters direct to Committee members even though they say on their website these may take weeks to get through the security screening.
JC Double Taxed @JCDoubleTaxed 2m2 minutes ago
Tax Reform Input requested by @SenOrrinHatch @RonWyden http://goo.gl/sHBWcG End Discrimination: #FATCA #FBAR #CBT http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/890215.shtml …
For Immediate Release: March 11, 2015.
WASHINGTON – Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and Ranking Member Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) today announced a bipartisan effort to begin soliciting ideas from interested members of the public and stakeholders on how best to overhaul the nation’s broken tax code to make it simpler, fairer, and more efficient.
The link has e-mail addresses and submission requirements.