Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Posted on by Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 62 Comments

 

WHERE:University of Toronto, St. Michael’s College, Carr Hall Room 405

100 St. Joseph Street – Toronto ON M5S 2C4 MAP

WHEN:SESSION ONE: 9:00 – 11:00 am Info Session

“2015- Solving U.S. Citizenship Problems-Have You Received a FATCA Letter?”

ADMISSION: $20 per individual or $40 for a family of up to 4 people

Payable in cash at the door, please (to cover costs).

 

WHEN: SESSION TWO: 12:00 – 6:00 pm Open Forum

“Have You and Your Family Been Harmed by U.S. Government Tax Policy?“

ADMISSION: FREE
 
 

WHO: John Richardson, B.A., LL.B, J.D.

Member of the Ontario Bar

citizenshipsolutions.ca
 

SESSION ONE

“Have you received a FATCA letter or been warned of the consequences of being a U.S. person?”
 
Why am I getting letters from my bank all of a sudden?

The “FATCA Hunt” – the hunt for U.S. persons (whatever that is) began on July 1, 2014 which was “Canada Day.” Although both the definition of “U.S. person” and whether one meets the definition is not always clear, the search has begun. The level of FATCA awareness has begun. Some organizations are actively warning people that “U.S. Person-ness” matters. The purpose of the warning is presumably to encourage people to “come clean” and deal with their U.S. tax situations. In some cases, there is no particular warning – just a letter indicating that they are suspected to be a “U.S. person.” Often one must prove to the institution sending the letter that one is not a U.S. person.

What individuals are U.S. taxpayers? Who is a U.S. citizen?
 
There are individuals that the U.S. government would define as “U.S. citizens” who:

  • do NOT agree that they are U.S. citizens because they have performed a “relinquishing act” under applicable U.S. laws;
  • do NOT even know that they may be U.S. citizens because they have never lived in the United States
  • are citizens and residents of countries that do NOT allow multiple citizenships

To put it another way: one’s status as a U.S. citizen is NOT always clear.

I have never heard of these requirements! What determines the income that must be reported to the IRS? What “Information Returns” are required to be reported to the IRS?

  • FBAR (Now called FinCen 114)
  • FATCA 8938 – Report of Specified Foreign Assets
  • 5471 – Information return for Foreign Corporation
  • 3520 – Information return for a “Foreign Trust”
  • 3520A – related to the 3520
  • 8621 – for CDN Mutual Funds
  • 8965 – for exemption from ACA insurance

I am only a snowbird! Why does this affect me?

  • Substantial Presence Test
  • Form 8840 Closer Connection Exception Statement for Aliens
  • Caution: Streamlined Programs & 35 day rule – Catch 22

What are the ways I can become compliant?

  • Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program – AKA “OVDP” – Not appropriate for the vast majority of people
  • Streamlined Compliance – A pre-packaged way to “clean up” past compliance problems
  • Obeying the law – filing amended tax returns outside the “IRS Created” programs
  • Delinquent FBAR Submission Procedures

What costs are involved in renouncing U.S. citizenship?

  • The costs of a total of 6 years (5 years prior to the year of renunciation plus the year of renunciation) of tax compliance and information returns
  • The cost of any back taxes and penalties
  • A $2350 administrative fee
  • possibility of having to pay an “Exit Tax” (which can be the biggest problem)

 

SESSION TWO
 
We want you to send your stories and videos of harm done to you by CBT to us by February 14, 2015. These will be sent to WASHINGTON DC

 
Requests from other sites to unite all our efforts have prompted a renewed call for submissions to the Senate Finance Committee!

All “US Persons,” American citizens, Accidentals, Border Babies, LPRs

FROM ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE

Open Forum– “Have you and your Family been Harmed by US Government Tax Policy?”

This session will be a Forum, moderated by John, where we will discuss the reality of what we are experiencing as US Persons abroad. Everyone is encouraged to come and participate or just listen if you like. Those who wish will be invited to speak directly to the Senate Finance Committee. You will have the opportunity to appear on camera. You will have the opportunity to describe in detail how difficult it is to both comply with the U.S. laws governing U.S. citizens abroad and have any kind of life. You don’t need to have a memorized statement, John will “interview” you and it will be as if you were just conversing with someone. Our goal is to create a number of video testimonials. (For those who are fearful of revealing your identities arrangements will be made so that your faces are obscured.) Each video testimonial will be paired with a written statement. If you don’t want to appear on video or if you don’t want to come to Toronto, you can prepare your own video testimonial and forward it to us. If you don’t want to appear on video, we still want your written statements.

We must commit ourselves to the goal, of ensuring that the reality of “U.S. Citizenship Abroad” is understood in the legislative process. We must take the positive and affirmative steps of educating the Senate Finance Committee. Our goal is to guide the Committee to recommend “residence-based taxation” for DNA American citizens abroad.

We do not believe that that Congress is either malicious or vindictive. We do believe that they are ignorant and have been seduced by the “Myth of The American Abroad.” The opposite of the truth is NOT the lie. The opposite of the truth is the “Myth.” Therefore, we must dispel the myths. We can achieve this only if you are willing to share your story.

We can achieve this only if you can convey your pain, your fear, your terror, and how the policies of the U.S. Government have destroyed the lives of you and your families. They must understand that people are being forced to renounce their U.S. citizenship to protect themselves and their families from the tyranny of the U.S. government.

To put it simply: Congress must understand how the community of U.S. citizens abroad (the best ambassadors that America could ever have) is being destroyed. This is not about tax compliance. It’s not about accountants and lawyers. It’s not about academics. It’s not about partisan politics. It’s not about class warfare. It’s certainly not about tax evasion and offshore accounts. It’s not about a bunch of theoretical garbage. It’s about people.

It’s about people with real lives, who are trying to exercise their constitutional liberties to pursue happiness in the form they desire. Instead they are being forced to renounce (either formally or informally) their U.S. citizenship. It’s about the right of people to live normal lives. It’s about being able to “live as a U.S. citizen abroad”

Please do NOT assume that your contribution doesn’t matter! Your contribution does matter!

Everybody matters. Therefore everybody has an obligation to contribute! Don’t get me wrong. I don’t mean “equal contribution”. I do mean that I want you to do what you can! We need your story. There are (apparently) 7.6 million Americans abroad. That’s a population bigger than many U.S. states. The votes of Americans abroad are believed to have made George Bush president in 2000.

You can make a difference.

People will be on video ONLY is they want to be. You can attend anonymously and contribute to the discussion. Come one! Come all!

Please forward your contributions to nobledreamer16 at gmail dot com

62 thoughts on ““Seize the Day” – An All-Day Event for All “U.S. Persons” – Info Session & Forum – February 14, 2015”

  1. I am not an American abroad, but a supporter of your cause. I am a lifelong friend of the late and great Roger Conklin. He was one of your most articulate supporters and he had never heard of our (The Americans for Fair Taxation) cause, formerly just known as the FairTax. He quickly realized if we were successful, the expats would have immediate relief.
    I started my FairTax quest in 1985 as a lone voice in the wilderness. We now have several million members and each new session of congress we have a bill introduced HR25 in the house and a senate bill SB122. If every expat joined the Americans for Fair Taxation we’d have a better chance together than trying to hire a lobbyist to change the 78,000 page tax code. We have an increased number of house and senate cosponsors every year. It is over 75 in the house and 10 in the senate.
    I now have a more urgent reason to get the FairTax bills passed since my grandson is now among the expats in Norway who are getting killed with double taxation.

  2. American ex-pats tend to integrate into foreign communities unlike other groups like the Irish who tend to cling together abroad.

    FATCA is having the effect of binding American ex-pats together against the US Government in a way it couldn’t imagine. This process will continue as FATCA wreaks its damage.

    American politicians need to realise how wrong their policies / ex-pats towards Americans abroad are.

  3. The fastest growing source of anti-Americanism is Americans abroad! The cost of this to the U.S. is beyond calculation.

  4. @Wilton

    You are lucky to have been such a good friend of Roger.But what we wouldn’t give to have him as part of this submission. 🙁

    @Don & USCA

    This is their greatest ignorance. I’ve said it from the beginning “Who are they kidding? We are Americans. We fight back!”

  5. @Wilton, I also live in the US and I support the Fair Tax because it would make everything much more simple. However, it seems that only a third of Republicans support it, and no Democrats at all, so I don’t see how the bills would even be considered by the committees. And almost all countries in the world have an income tax, so by itself it’s not unusual at all.

    The Fair Tax would also end the estate and gift taxes. Although I’m not subject to them, to me they are much worse than the income tax, and prehaps even than CBT. Their only purpose is to force distribution of wealth, not to collect revenue (it’s insignificant), and they are imposed at the worst moment of a person’s life. Many countries have recently abolished their estate/inheritance tax, including very liberal ones like Sweden and Norway, while the US neighbors Canada and Mexico abolished it a long time ago. Even some high ranking Democrats such as Ron Wyden oppose the estate tax due to its inefficiency. So this part of the Fair Tax has a very good chance of being accepted. Perhaps things should be done each part at a time.

    What defies logic is the Republicans’ plan to abolish the estate tax. They tried it in 2001 and Orrin Hatch is trying again. They want to abolish the estate tax but keep the gift tax. This doesn’t make any sense. The only reason why the gift tax exists is to prevent an easy avoidance of the estate tax. So if the estate tax is abolished, why on Earth do they want to keep the gift tax? Even worse, the bill they introduced keeps the expatriation tax on inheritance from “covered expatriates”, which would make them the only people in the world subject to the US estate tax. I assume this was a technical mistake, but Congress is making things too complicated. Just repeal the whole subtitle B, period.

  6. OK, I should tone down my criticism. The latest bill in the House proposes repealing the whole subtitle B.

    I also just found this:

    Long-Overdue Covered Expatriate Rules

    The IRS has said the next bit of guidance to emerge will be proposed rules on “covered expatriates” under tax code Section 2801.

    It has been seven years since enactment of the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2008, which subjects the recipients of gifts and bequests from certain expatriates to substantial tax liability, and the agency is under increasing pressure to produce regulations.

    Agency officials deferred the reporting and tax obligations for covered gifts or bequests under the law, and time is running out to enforce those regulations retroactively, practitioners said. The project has been on the guidance plan since 2009.

    A number of procedural problems have held up the issuance of the proposed rules, Cathy Hughes, Treasury Department estate and gift tax attorney-adviser, said at the November AICPA meeting.

    Two of the problems are that the U.S. recipient of the gifts isn’t even subject to Section 2801 unless the property comes from a covered expatriate, as defined by the law; furthermore, the gift must be a “covered bequest.”

    “But the problem with that is that the IRS is the only one who knows for sure the answers to those questions. Not the recipient,” Hughes said.

    Tax code Section 6103 limits the information the IRS can divulge to someone other than a particular taxpayer. “We do not want to get to a place where we have to say ‘everybody who gets something from somebody who was ever in the U.S. and has expatriated now has to assume they are subject to 2801,’ ” Hughes said.

  7. What Senate Finance Committee hearing is seeking this information?
    Who is it to be submitted to in the US Senate?
    Why would I use a Canadian lawyer if I’m an American living in another country?
    Is there a new bill under consideration in the US Senate that you are referencing?
    Where’s the support from other organizations like American Citizens Abroad (ACA)?

    I can see none of these questions answered here. A little more clarity would be helpful.

    – An American Living in the United Kingdom

  12. I have the same question as Philip. It is not quite clear who will be witnessing these testimonials.

    I’m an American who has lived abroad for all but one of the past thirty years. I don’t earn huge money, never once exceeded the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, and I choose to live in the country I live in for essentially the same reasons as someone who perhaps moved from Iowa to Illinois: a good job opportunity, then after awhile this place just became “home”. I neither love nor hate the USA, but I am one of those “ambassadors” constantly having to receive snide comments from my non-American acquaintances about the insane side of the USA–the national gun fetish, the deadly racism, the incessant bullying foreign wars, etc. You couldn’t ask for a better ambassador than me.

    The country I live in is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a magnet for immigration, nor a passport that is held in high esteem. But my husband (a naturalized US citizen) and I have finally made the decision to renounce our citizenship and become local citizens, despite the inconvenience in travel that will entail.

    This is because we can’t stand the annual twisting in our guts that we may have made a simple error in our US tax return or, worse, our FBAR, which would make an audit turn into living hell. And as I get older, I increasingly resent having to take two full days every year out of my waning life to do the figures for my US tax returns, when the local tax returns take me all of 45 minutes. Nor do I want to pay a “tax professional” a couple grand to do my filings.

    I could go on. You’ve heard my story before. But is there any point in participating in this exercise? Is it simply a tent rally of US expats to preach to the converted? Or is some US senator actually going to attend a meeting about US tax policy run by a Canadian (WFT???) lawyer?

    Is there really any point to this exercise other than to let off steam? Or will my participation from afar (I can’t come to Toronto) make any difference?

  14. Here is an oldie but goodie that I came across while “peppering’ the House Ways and Means Committee Facebook pages. It includes personal accounts from about 20 different expats explaining why they are renouncing US citizenship:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24338387

    I am continuing with my “peppering” of the House Ways and Means Committee Facebook pages, Democrats and Republicans alike, with news articles I pulled from various archives to include those compiled from the news archives of the Isaac Brock Society as well as the US Citizens in Canada Info Shop.

    Republicans:
    https://www.facebook.com/WaysandMeans?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser

    Democrats:
    https://www.facebook.com/waysandmeanscommitteedems?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser

    A guy named Hector David Pinto just made some really good comments on the Democrat’s FB page:

    “Congressmen, you say that the US tax code is unfair because it contains loopholes, which are provisions that unintentionally benefit certain people or companies, and you want to fix that. OK. But the tax code is also unfair because it contains the opposite of loopholes (for which I don’t have a name), which are provisions that unintentionally HARM certain people. I don’t know about you, but for me fixing this is much more important that fixing loopholes. If someone benefits from a loophole, I say good for them, I’m not an envious person. You can deal with that later if you want. But if someone is actually being harmed because of something that wasn’t even intended and doesn’t make sense, for me that’s the higher priority by far. And the worst of these cases is in the area of international taxation of individuals: the United States taxes the income not generated here from people who don’t live here. There is simply no logical justification for this. And I’m not the only one who is saying this, literally the entire world agrees: the US is the only country that does this (with the sole infamous exception of Eritrea). That’s right, not the only developed country, the only country, period. Please fix this first, do justice for these real people suffering from this insanity, instead of being obsessed with multinational corporations.”

    And

    “In other words, you say that corporations are abusing international law, by doing complex arrangements that are technically allowed but not expected. Well, the US government is also abusing international law, by relying on citizenship jurisdiction, which is technically allowed but not logical and not used in the area of taxation by anyone else. Please fix yourself first before trying to fix others.”

    So let’s please keep this up (keep commenting about the articles) so that when the submissions are sent to the Ways and Means Committee again they will already know that we mean business and are NOT going to stop until all “NON-RESIDENT AMERICANS” are FREE!

  15. @Walter

    If you like that, you may want to check out Mr Pinto’s submission to the above link I just posted.

  16. Barbara, you ask; “……is there any point in participating in this exercise? Is it simply a tent rally of US expats to preach to the converted? Or is some US senator actually going to attend a meeting about US tax policy run by a Canadian (WFT???) lawyer?

    Is there really any point to this exercise other than to let off steam? Or will my participation from afar (I can’t come to Toronto) make any difference?”

    I attended an information session, and the ACA Foundation debate last year. A non-US spouse attended the very first forum and was very impressed with how knowledgeable the speakers and organizers were. I found it very worthwhile – therapeutic to be in the company of others with a similar experience and similar goals and issues, who understood the cold hard facts as well as the feelings and the many unknowns. I met other US citizens, and affected family. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I am so very glad I did. I have met the organizers, and I have the highest of respect for the knowledge, skills and commitment of the dedicated people organizing this. It has been about 4 years now of following them and others here at IBS, Maple Sandbox, and other blogs, and of witnessing how these organizations have proved themselves and made progress we could only fantasize about in late 2011/early 2012.

    I am in no doubt that this is worth attending for those who can manage to travel to Toronto.

    Some of the participants have already made submissions to Parliament http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/10/latest-in-richardsonkish-series-another-march-10-2014-submission-to-department-of-finance-canada/ and to the US before http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/us-senate-finance-committee-submission-richardson-yates-and-kish/ . It is because of them and two brave Canadian plaintiffs that a tangible, effective and robust legal challenge to the FATCA IGA and application within Canada has been mounted and funded http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/ – with a Canadian constitutional expert at the helm http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/LegalTeamADCS.html http://business.financialpost.com/2014/08/12/canadian-government-faces-constitutional-challenge-over-fatca-deal/ .

    If I understand it correctly, the testimonials – on videotape and written, are to be collected in order to submit/present them to the Senate Finance Committee and try to educate them as to the REAL impact of CBT and FATCA on those living in Canada and elsewhere, outside the US – and to present them with the REAL face of those living abroad, instead of the MYTHical taxevadingmoneylaunderingcriminaldruglordfatcattrillionaires they seem to want to believe in (whether out of convenience, politics, willful ignorance, blinkered ideology, etc.).

    Organizers, please correct me if I haven’t described the aims correctly, or have left out some important clarification.

  17. @ Barbara

    You wrote: “Is there really any point to this exercise other than to let off steam? Or will my participation from afar (I can’t come to Toronto) make any difference?”

    You and your husband should NOT have been forced to renounce US citizenship. It is a huge tragedy for you as well as millions of others. We as a group of Americans (including many ex-US citizens) are determined to fix this mess, not only for ourselves, but for our loved ones and off-spring who are still trapped.

    As I wrote above: “We are NOT going to stop until every single “NON-RESIDENT AMERICAN” is FREE!

    Any participation you undertake (no matter how large or small) is sincerely appreciated by everyone!

  18. @ Walter
    I believe that BBC link is just the sort of thing @Tricia Moon may be looking for. Thanks for finding it.

  19. @Walter. Yes we could benefit from some word the opposite of “loophole” where we don’t get the loophole but get extra tax, compliance, and penalty risk. I tried to Google it and found someone else trying to find out a word for it. ‘Catch’ may be part of it. I was thinking Catch-22 as kind of a word for a no win bureaucratic situation. We need this word. Catch-22 Tax & Compliance Purgatory.

  20. Badger and Walter, thanks for the replies. As I am new to this site (and other sites for US citizens abroad), I am curious. Walter said:

    **As I wrote above: “We are NOT going to stop until every single “NON-RESIDENT AMERICAN” is FREE!**

    When did this campaign start? With the 2011 new disclosure policies? Does anyone seriously believe there is the slightest chance to change things? For the life of me, I’m trying to think of a single instance anywhere in the world where any government introduced a tax (in this case, citizenship-based taxation, as well as FBARs and FATCA, which are related) which was ever, EVER repealed. I’m not talking special-case temporary taxes, but any tax at all.

    I don’t envision reform coming in my lifetime. As tempted as I am to make a video to submit for this conference, I’m scared of incriminating myself. I don’t have the knowhow to blur my face or alter my voice.

    Funny, though, isn’t it, that my husband and I would rather adopt the citizenship of a corrupt Asian regime than keep our US citizenship, because we feel more threatened and intimidated by the so-called “Land of the Free”?

    But thanks to those who maintain and contribute to this website. It is indeed cathartic to find others who are as torn inside and angry as I am.

  21. @Barbara

    The single biggest threat to Americans living abroad is the US government. Wear a mask of Barack Obama or My Kitty to obscure your face if you’re worried about being identified in a video. Just don’t go down without a fight.

  22. Wilton, I am as concerned as you are, to protect Americans abroad, especially our children. I also agree that the US urgently needs tax reform. However, the FairTax proposal is neither appropriate nor fair. As I understand it, FairTax proposes to replace income tax with a federal sales tax – which would disproportionately hurt the middle and lower classes. What the US needs is RESIDENCE based income tax, like every other country in the world.

  23. @Barbara

    You wrote:

    “Funny, though, isn’t it, that my husband and I would rather adopt the citizenship of a corrupt Asian regime than keep our US citizenship, because we feel more threatened and intimidated by the so-called “Land of the Free”?”

    That shows just how low in value of US citizenship has gotten for Americans living outside the US. I too shit-canned my US citizenship for a corrupt third world country citizenship. For people living outside their homeland any citizenship is better than the US right now. Some people are even going stateless.

  24. Sorry I wont be in Ontario for this meeting in February. I wont be in Ontario next until sometime in April (when I hope to attend the birth of a new family member). Who knows, there may be another opportunity then to attend one of these meetings.

  25. Opposite of “loophole”: how about “sinkhole”?
    “Catch” describes getting something you want to get, such as catching the ball for the winning touchdown. What happened to so many of us a couple of years ago was a huge OMG moment as we realized we were being swallowed into the depths of hell.

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