UPDATE January 24, 2015: THIRD OF FIVE LEGAL BILLS PAID
[We now have a NEW POST taking us up to May 1, 2015. This post will be retired from service.]
On August 11, 2014, Constitutional Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples worldwide. Read Alliance’s Claims and comment on our Alliance blog.
Chers amis et donateurs,
Ensemble, nous avons atteint notre but : ramasser les fonds nécessaires pour payer la troisième des cinq factures légales de notre poursuite judiciaire.
Ramasser 300 000 $ provenant de petits dons est un exploit tout à fait extraordinaire et nous invitons notre gouvernement canadien, ainsi que tous les autres gouvernements qui ont piétiné les droits de leurs citoyens, à en prendre bonne note.
Chaque jour, nous nous rapprochons de notre but. Déjà, nous avons ramassé plus de la moitié des fonds nécessaires pour payer les frais légaux de notre poursuite contre le gouvernement canadien et l’entente FATCA.
Si nous avons parcouru un si grand bout de chemin, c’est grâce à nos deux courageuses plaignantes, Ginny et Gwen, à nos donateurs provenant du Canada et de partout dans le monde, ainsi qu’aux administrateurs des sites Internet Isaac Brock Society et Maple Sandbox. Ils permettent tous à nos voix d’être entendues.
Merci !
L’équipe de l’ADSC
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Dear Friends and Supporters,
Together we have reached our goal of paying off the third of five retainer fees for our Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit.
Raising $300,000 from small donations is a pretty amazing achievement and we ask the Government of Canada, and those other governments who have also tossed away rights of their citizens, to take notice.
It’s still a marathon, but we are more than half way to pay off the Federal Court legal costs.
We have come so far because of our brave Plaintiffs, Ginny and Gwen, our Canadian and International donor-supporters, and the administrators of the Isaac Brock and Maple Sandbox websites who make it possible for our voices to be heard.
Thank you all,
—The ADCS-ADSC team
@ Cheryl – the ADCS team and many Brockers and Maple Sandboxers are on the Twitter and Facebook warpaths as well as advertising on Kijiji and the like. The message is getting out those ways and by word of mouth as well. We also have a mailing list of those who have asked to be kept up to date on the lawsuit, so letters go out to those people as well. Every new person who knows about this will tell two people, who will tell two people and so on (remember that shampoo ad?). This is the power of exponential growth!
Thanks GwEvil & Embee. I should have known.
@ George (Defunding is a simple process. Each year there is a huge budget bill that is passed allocating money to all the departments.)
Yes, okay, but what will the FFIs all do when FATCA is de-funded? There are still all the IGAs that were signed in (almost) good faith; these FFIs and governments – would they just stop their snooping??? d Not likely until the US cries “OK, we can stop now”, which won’t be for a long time…..
Pity the Kuwaiti author doesn’t know “lean” from “lien”.
Yes, george, and thanks for recognizing those I speak for when I use the example of my own son who happens to entrapped into a U.S.-defined U.S. citizenship. Deemed *US Persons* abroad can be caught and entrapped different ways. Certainly most unfair, the “Accidental American” example and the child born to U.S. parent(s) in another country, without any CHOICE in that “gift”, as well as those not able to renounce due to a ‘mental incapacity’ unable to get out from under the obscene and expensive ongoing compliance with the assistance of U.S. tax and law professionals. The consequences will go on even after death of these persons as their “executors” have to sort out the U.S. citizen / U.S. citizenship-based taxation mess! Where is the common sense?
It was more of a burden to me to not speak about this than to *try* to speak for the many without a voice.
Thanks for your kind words, george.
@Team ADCS, first you guys have been doing great on the press releases and other matters.
With the election behind us, could Stephen send a congrats letter to Sen. Mike Lee with lots of pufferry and ask what is next and what kind of time line.
I would include suggestions in that letter the likes that have been in the comments threads.
Re: “I often ask what IRS non-compliant Canadians will do when FATCA turns them over to the IRS, and have yet to receive a straight answer. I have always wondered how many will be resisters (a handful only?).”
1. Report them to the proper Canadian authority as phishers and spammers. Complain to your MP that you are being targeted by a rogue organization in the same manner as one of those Nigerian scams. Request (via your MP) that the Canadian government take immediate action to put a stop to this illegal activity.
2. Contact one of those CBC programs that expose rip-off artists; (“Help, I’m being targeted even though I ditched my US citizenship years ago. I can’t get a CLN because the waiting time for an appointment is now 3 1/2 years.” The Consulate says it’s low priority.)
3. Use the IRS letter for toilet paper. (Reduce, reuse, recycle.)
4. I’ll find my financial records if and when you, (the IRS), find Lois Lerner’s emails.
5. Don’t waste our time; the Republicans are soon going to fire you all anyway.
6. Drop off at the nearest postal box with address crossed out and marked “return to sender, no forwarding address”.
7. Other strategies depending on my mood at the time.
You could return that brown envelope to its sender with a simple message “Addressee passed”.
No need to elaborate whether you mean passed
a) a kidney stone
b) muster
c) gas
d) a milestone birthday
e) all expectations
f) the butter OR
g) go and went straight to jail
Let the IRS assume it means “passed away”. No lie told.
George, I like your idea of sending a letter. My first thought is that the letters should not be limited to Mike Lee. My personal prediction (and hope) is that there will be some attempts at making “small” steps in the right direction over the next two years. Again, almost all of my involvement these days is in litigation to force change.
Maz, Thanks for providing good strategies (and EmBee for help in interpretation). Am adding your name to the short list. My question will reappear at a later date.
@maz57 & EmBee
Ok both of you stop it right now, My stomach hurts……….. ;-P
I just tweeted this :
MAKE #FATCA FAIR : #US #citizens living in #america should pay #taxes back to the country that their families are originated from.
Spread the word : Americans should pay tax back to the countries that they and their families come from in the first place.
MAKE FATCA FAIR. Have them ALL fill out forms so we know their origin and wich countries they should be filling out tax forms for. GET THEM ALL CONCERNED AND FEEL BAD ABOUT IT.
That’ll get things going inside USA.
Yes, Steven, the same kind of “fairness” of the IGA that implements FATCA in countries outside the USA. For example, in Canada, to not be discriminatory, ALL PERSONS IN CANADA, citizens and permanent residents alike no matter where their origin or the origin of their parents MUST have their banking information turned over to the Canada Revenue Agency for the CRA to determine what will be further passed on to the US IRS. Let all Canadians think about such an action.
@ Stephen Kish
“I also received a follow-up clarification of Maz’s thoughts from @EmBee, but this was too provocative to post.”
Provocative? Moi? Quelle surprise!
@calgary411, absolutely spot on. ALL banking info from all residents in Canada should not just be handed to the CRA but also to the USG.
The problem is that politically that might be lawful but not a vote getter.
Its the same logic why the US is in a perpetual war. There is no shared sacrifice amongst those sent to die and be horribly disabled. 1% of the American Public has shared in the sacrifice of the last 13 years. Its easy to fight wars with other families sons, daughters, husbands and wives when you are part of the 99% not the 1%.
George,
No, absolutely not a vote getter, which we know is the only game in town — not the reality of having to live up to the rights ALL Canadians HAD under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (and other countries’ citizens of their law).
Is it too big a stretch for others in our countries to put themselves in our shoes — to realize the “rights” they would have to lose our countries’ law meant what they are supposed to? Do they think it’s OK and really want to dance to the tune of the USA? Pitiful!
@StephenKish @TriciaMoon @calgary411
Dare I ask how things are coming as we approach the 30 day mark after the amended claims were filed with AGC and MNR? I note that the new deadline appears to be 30 days after Oct 9 which would be Nov 8–given that that falls on a weekend in practice the deadline would probably be Nov 10. Can we expect a response to the claims by then or very, very shortly thereafter?
@ Dash1729
We can follow the lawsuit’s progress here:
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?court_no=T-1736-14
However I’m not sure how quickly they update that. I’m sure we’ll be told as soon as something happens — right here on this thread and at
http://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/
@Dash,
I too have been looking at the calendar and, as you say, the Government should respond to the Claims on November 10 (four days from now), the first business day after the weekend.
As soon as I receive the response I will make this easily known on my post and provide a link.
I am also impatient and curious as to the arguments the Government will provide.
This link will show when the response is recorded:
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?court_no=T-1736-14
@EmBee
Yes I’ve been encouraged to direct discussions to http://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/ before and have done so but unfortunately that only works if a critical mass of people–not just one person–do so. Unfortunately the discussion at http://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/ just hasn’t taken hold like it has at IBS even though I’d agree that ideally it would be the better place for discussions specific to the lawsuit.
I’m sure that anything specific will be posted here and I’m also sure that there are things happening behind the scenes that cannot be disclosed publicly yet. But I do wish to make note of the fact that I feel there is some urgency to pursue this case in earnest at this time. I don’t know if Arvay-Gruber have any intentions to seek an injunction blocking the transfer of data to CRA/IRS pending the outcome of the lawsuit, and I suspect they cannot reveal their strategy–but I hope that that is one strategy they pursue. And if they do, the time is growing short. The tax filing season will begin after Dec 31 and the banks could start transferring specific data at any time after that date.
@ Dash1729
We all feel the urgency and yes, an injunction would be wonderful. Once that data is transmitted, it cannot be retrieved. The only action a person could take if they knew their sensitive financial records had been transmitted to the IRS via CRA would be to “change the locks” (i.e. move all of their accounts to different locations with different account numbers). After my husband had his CLN in hand he did just that because obviously they had his e-filed FinCEN114 for 2013. (E-filing makes one more vulnerable than paper, IMO.) Mattress banking may make a comeback.
I am wondering whether this is also an angle for the legal challenge:
http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2014/11/03/assisted-reproduction-us-citizenship-a-toxic-gene-for-some/
This is from a US expat tax website, and is entirely serious. It points out the ultimate absurdity of twinning citizenship status with UStaxable status. I post this here equally seriously. Prospective parents in Canada and abroad will now have to determine whether they will inherit/produce a UStaxable dependent in certain cases of assisted reproduction. This is another scenario in the news which makes US tax laws absurd in application http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/prospective-canadian-parents-turn-to-us-embryo-surplus-donation-1.2823981
See;
“…In the case of a foreign surrogate mother abroad carrying a fetus to gestation, either the sperm or the egg used to create the embryo must be from a U.S citizen for that citizenship to transmit to the child at birth. In order to transmit U.S. citizenship to a child conceived through Assisted Reproductive Technology (i) a U.S. citizen father must be the genetic parent or (ii) a U.S. citizen mother must be the genetic parent or (iii) a U.S. citizen mother (even though not the genetic parent) must be the gestational and legal mother of the child at the time and place of the child’s birth. A gestational mother is the woman who carries and gives birth to the child. This third category of a means granting US citizenship represents a change in US policy and was designed to address the situation when IVF babies were denied US citizenship even though their birth mother was a US citizen. …”…”“Accidental Americans” and Assisted Reproductive Technology
Assisted Reproductive Technology apparently also has the potential to create “Accidental Americans.” This can happen when children are born through sperm and/or ova donated by American citizens. Due to American law, children born through these means can have American citizenship transmitted to them, whether their legal parents want them to have it or not. This can make them responsible for American tax laws as has been described above. Non-Americans should keep this in consideration when pursuing Assisted Reproductive Technology. …”
I wasn’t clear in my citations above. The block of quotes which made the link between the change in US citizenship policy re assisted reproduction – and potential US taxable status was from here:
http://blogs.angloinfo.com/us-tax/2014/11/03/assisted-reproduction-us-citizenship-a-toxic-gene-for-some/
Here is the connection made explicit from the webpage cited above:
“…Due to American law, children born through these means can have American citizenship transmitted to them, whether their legal parents want them to have it or not. This can make them responsible for American tax laws as has been described above. Non-Americans should keep this in consideration when pursuing Assisted Reproductive Technology….”… from
Assisted Reproduction: US Citizenship – A Toxic Gene for Some?
November 3, 2014 by Virginia La Torre Jeker J.D
Well there you have it, Badger. Virginia puts it clearly and concisely: US sperm has the potential to disseminate US taxpayers around the world.
Reading through the letters lately makes me wonder one thing. Do I need to serve my wife with a cease and desist order to give to the IRS on my behalf? I absolutely will not hand any of my information over to the USA no matter what. We need to look at the options for the spouses of fatca victims in order to protect them from also being victims. We were never thought of by the Canadian politicians who committed treason so easily to protect the banks. Do we, as spouses have a legal case against our spouses and the USA for breaches of trust and protection laws that WE were never told of either.? It seems pretty clear, had the Canadian government even bothered to look into this, we would have never married anyone born in the USA no matter what their citizenship. We certainly have a case against our spouses and the Canadian government for forgetting us as Canadians also.
NativeCanadian,
If Canadian spouses will have a legal case against their spouses for breaches of trust and protection of laws you, the Canadian spouse were never told of (because the *US* spouses had no bloody idea!), then what cases would the Canadian-born children of US parent(s) and the US-born children of Canadian parents who brought their infants or very young children back to their home country to live have against their loving and ignorant parents?