Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Posted on by Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 50 Comments

LM has proposed a separate thread for us to post our suggestions for anti-FATCA/CBT action in 2015.

Perhaps there could be a new IBS page on which we all can list our IBS/FATCA/ADCS new year’s resolutions as to what we WILL make an effort to accomplish. As part of that, maybe there could also be a review what has and has not been successful so that we (1) don’t keep spending our time/energy attempting approaches that end up just being a waste of time and (2) see what has worked and encourage more of that.

Along with helping to organize a John Richardson evening presentation (Hamilton, Ontario – March 26), one tack that I am starting to take is to connect with other US Expats around the world to let them know about IBS and, more importantly, ADCS and the only-currently-active-litigation-against-FATCA. This is being accomplished through joining EpatBlog (http://www.expat-blog.com) and starting conversations on forums as well as some messaging to specific active Expats there who have indicated their US origin. Is this “gentle spam”? Maybe, but we’ll see what expanded support can be garnered…..

As well, I continue to hand out my FATCA flyer to lots of people as I go through day to day life. For example, when my plane-boarding was delayed an hour just before Xmas, I handed these out to lots of folks at the airport; I quietly, respectfully walked around with a file folder boldly labeled “Are you a US Person or do you know anyone who is?” and anyone who looked up and seemed interested, I handed them a flier. Had a few good conversations…

Let’s follow LM’s lead and fill our “comments section” with more great ideas on which we can, and will, take action!

50 thoughts on “Anti-FATCA/CBT “To Do” List for 2015”

  1. @ LM
    I think CARP was approached prior to the FATCA IGA (possibly by calgary411). Nothing much came of it then but now that there are certain to be more FATCA victims perhaps they could be persuaded to at least issue warnings to retirees and those planning for retirement.

  2. US_Foreign_Person,
    there are a lot more places to go to earn a good living and live a nice life than ppl think. I tell my children all the time to look anywhere but the USA. FACTA and CBT are just a couple of things on the long list that make that place a poor choice. Perhaps in a decade or two thing may change but change is not something Americans do until they’ve run through every other horrible option first.

  3. For anyone wanting to re-open the subject of FATCA and now the omnibus bill that implements it in Canada, from the Brock *archives* in search of articles re CARP:

    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/14/if-you-really-understood-fatca-you-would-not-support-it/
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/15/my-plea-for-clarification-on-the-rdsp-and-other-canadian-registered-savings-plans-are-these-now-for-purchse-only-to-canadians-who-are-not-us-defined-us-persons-in-canada/
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/24/finance-minister-jim-flaherty-is-already-effectively-stripping-canadians-of-us-origin-of-their-canadian-citizenship/
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/06/15/speaking-of-carp-here-is-an-item-from-their-most-recent-online-newsletter/
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/11/carp-weighs-in-on-fatca/
    http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/02/23/finance-minister-flaherty-has-responded-to-carp/

  5. @ calgary411
    You definitely were on CARP’s case back then. Unfortunately they just seemed to think in the end, like Flaherty and now Oliver, that the IGA “negotiations” produced a “win”. NO, not real negotiations, merely secret and subservient. NO, not a win, merely the acceptance of the same bad “offer you can’t refuse” that every other slimy IGA signer got.

  6. EmBee,

    Right: secret and subservient — Congress has spoken for Canada and every other country who had no choice, but just another US *economic sanction* over their own countries’ sovereignty and their own peoples’ well-being.

    Listen to / look at this new commenter, http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/comment-page-165/#comment-5121787, retiring, having just paid off a small mortgage and facing all of this BS — another family’s lives in ruin from immoral US citizenship-based taxation, criminalized for their *ignorance* of US CBT after all those years of honest work and paying taxes to the country in which they live, have worked, saved for retirement, contributing to their own society. It makes you bloody crazy for what this is doing to every-day, normal individuals and families and not being able to make their reality different. Shame on every country who submits to the blackmail.

  9. @EllenDownunder Thanks for the articles and information.
    @ProudAussie Precedents in other countries such as Canada will definitely help highlight the CBT, FATCA, and FBAR injustices in other countries. Generally I find other US persons in Australia have no idea.

  10. OK, so to not duplicate efforts, which of you great letter-writer/commenters are going to take on CARP?

    BTW, I’m beginning to make a few connections on Expatblog, especially with a fellow from Brazil who has invited me to share (on a Brazil Tax forum) info on IBS, ADCS and the charter challenge; this fellow reports that there are 1 million US Expats in Brazil (and growing). So it is worth pursuing, especially telling them that the Canadian charter challenge is the ONLY current litigation against FATCA in the world; hopefully we can get some interested in supporting our historic effort (and, believe me – – WE ALL HAVE DONE AMAZING WORK!!!!!)

  12. @ WhiteKat
    What a powerful letter that was, that you sent to CARP. From what I can see, that was almost a year ago. Do you think things may have changed, that more people are aware of the far-reaching impact and complications of FATCA? Would you send this letter again, with some added encouragement at the end of the letter, that CARP take a look at IBS and ADCS and consider interviewing a number of effected seniors, including Gwen and Ginny (who certainly fit into the CARP mandate)?

  14. WhiteKat and LM,

    Would you consider collaborating with some of what badger says in this http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/10/22/97975-more-needed-to-make-the-february-1-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-97-975-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-32/#comment-5132907 and many other comments in trying to educate CARP about what the Conservative government *supposedly negotiated* and legislated in Canada by the intergovernmental agreement signed with the US to implement US citizenship-based taxation on one million Canadians, their families, their business partners. It’s worth one more well-prepared try at getting CARP’s attention and hopefully the attention of other Canadians — as, yes, they too are affected. This whole country, Canada, and every taxpayer here is.

    CARP didn’t listen to anything I said, responding to only one of my many attempts to have them hear me through correspondence. They may have responded to WhiteKat. Their regular newsletter feature, “CARP Action Online”, could ask questions based on what badger says about any dollar of our own Canadian taxes misspent on collecting, transmitting and thus making personal and financial data vulnerable to the US Homeland Security and Patriot Act laws and the US Treasury — what would other Canadians read, digest, think about and determine? There should also be questions whether or not other Canadians care about this country’s sovereignty.

    http://www.imakenews.com/carp/

    http://www.carp.ca/2014/10/19/105307/

    Michael Nicin
    416.607.2479; cell 647-678-1757
    Director of Policy
    m.nicin@carp.ca

  15. I am home for the next 1.5 weeks then away from home (and much internet access) until the beginning of Feb. If this can wait, and if either you or WhiteKat or both want to begin puling something together using all this information/background points (but bringing it up to 2015 details/commentary/issues), I would be happy to work with you both (or singly) on reviewing/editing/checking/tightening phrasing and/or the flow of points once home before it is sent off to CARP (as I did with the UN Human Rights Complaint). Let me know 🙂

  16. @JC
    Generally I don’t find other US persons in Australia, but the ones I have, have no idea. According to ABS statistics in 2011, there are over 90,000 Aussies who were born in America, and over the last 30 years I might have met a dozen. I’ve been in Greek, Lebanese, or Vietnamese neighbourhoods, and a couple of Chinatowns, but wouldn’t have a clue as to how one might locate a US person.
    I agree about the Foriegn precedents and will be donating more to the Canadian lawsuit and keeping an eye on the situation in India. Other than that I am preparing to fight tooth and nail should the wolves show up at my door. As far as I’m concerned, if it costs them two dollars for every one they squeeze out of me, I will have won. Everyone must follow their own path, but for me it’s “Just say no”.

  17. The only reason I found out about FATCA is because I have relatives in Canada who told me about it when they visited Australia. I have not stepped foot on US soil in more than 20 years.

  18. @EllenDownunder
    I found out by accident too.
    Someone at the IRS must have noticed the potential for net financial gains through penalties and prosecutions. After that it was only logical that they would get more penalties and prosecutions if no one was actually aware of the laws.

  19. @Calgary411,

    I think I will just send an email to the two contacts from CARP that I originally sent my letter to last February, as opposed to working on a collaborative letter writing effort with LM.

    However, the more letters to CARP the merrier, so if someone wants to put something else together, that would be great also.

  20. I continue to post our flyers around town on public bulletin boards. I check about once a week and sometimes they are missing. I put them back up again. The best one has our website as a tear away at the bottom of the page. Public bulletin boards are often cleaned up on a regular basis as well. Keep on truckin!

  21. Yes, keep on truckin’
    Sometimes there is an impact, sometimes not. Sometimes, when there is an impact, a wall falls down and through this one connection you reach LOADS of people. We can’t predict. Ann, you keep going, gal !!!

  22. @ WhiteKat – I’m glad this will be done sooner rather than later and Iook forward to your posting of what was sent along with (hopefully) a good reply this time.

  23. There is a current NYT article about the fact that China adopted citizenship-based taxation after visiting, among other places, the US, when designing its tax code. The article says that China is beginning to try to enforce its citizenship-based taxation.

    This is my perfect dream come true, if it is a fact. I don’t see how CBT would be sustainable if, for example, a dual Chinese-US citizen is living and working in the UK. There would have to be separate treaties between the CBT countries like the US and China which wanted to tax income or gains that weren’t covered by the UK treaties with either or both of them. How would the US and China allocate taxing rights between themselves, for example, on capital gains on the sale of the dual citizen’s UK residence (tax exempt in the UK)? Why would either of them have a better claim to tax those gains, since both are relying on citizenship? Birth citizenship first? What about dual citizens at birth? I keep thinking that it would soon be apparent under those circumstances that, actually, the taxpayer’s residence (where the taxpayer uses government services) should be determinative.

  25.  

    NB: CALLING ALL EU BROCKERS

    I need contacts in Budapest, Bratislava also Sweden and Austria. If you know someone, please, email me at nobledreamer16 at gmail dot com

    Please pass the word!

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