I am a United States citizen and voluntarily wish to maintain that citizenship.
However, there are many people living outside the United States who the U.S. deems to be United States citizens — who had this “citizenship” imposed on them without their consent.
For these people such citizenship is unwanted, and all would agree that they should not be citizens of the United States. A strong case can also be made that they are not in fact U.S. citizens.
Many of these unfortunate people will comply with regulations, imposed by the U.S. Department of State and Internal Revenue Service, to free themselves, at high cost, from U.S. citizenship and associated obligations to the Internal Revenue Service.
This was just suggested to me as a possible position such people could take:
“The laws of the United States end at its borders.
I have never had any voluntary connection to the U.S. including: not living in the U.S., not born in the U.S., and if born in the U.S. not choosing where I was born.
I will not allow the U.S. to forcibly impose U.S. citizenship, (and the financial terrorism it implies) on me without my consent.
Because I have no voluntary connection to the U.S. I will pay not one penny to extricate myself from U.S. claims of ownership.“
This issue should be seen by Homelanders like this:
“On 1 July 2014 the US Citizens (and others) lost the right to cash out of the United States, move abroad and not be tracked by the US Government.”
Boris Johnson has said publicly ‘NO’ he won’t pay his IRS capital gains tax bill from apparently selling his house in the UK.
When is the US Government going to realise ex-pats will dig in their heels and do everything in their power not to pay one penny to the IRS. Ex-pat money, as it stands, will be expensive, time consuming, dragged out, difficult, to collect over 200 different legal systems.
It would be easier for Congress to pass tax reform and bring in a federal VAT and other tax reform measures to indirect taxation.
FATCA is the Boston Tea Party in reverse.
My name is GwEvil and I endorse this statement!
I have a Canadian-born son ENTRAPPED into a U.S.-defined U.S. citizenship by birth to two US citizen parents, seemingly with no way out for any amount of dollars paid to professionals who deal with such matters.
The U.S. Department of State indicates my son (and others like him) cannot renounce this “automatic” US citizenship because he (they) does not have the requisite mental capacity to understand the concept of citizenship and its responsibilities. A person without requisite mental capacity must not have the influence of anyone in making a decision to go to a US Consulate to renounce that extraneous, never used US citizenship (one that has also never even been acknowledged or any U.S. documentation registered with that country as proof of such automatic U.S. citizenship). A parent, a guardian or a trustee of such a person does not have the right to renounce US citizenship on behalf of such persons without requisite mental capacity, even with a court order (though they may make other life decisions for those persons each day).
I very much agree, on behalf of my son and any others without requisite mental capacity, that statements need to be made:
Like calgary411, I’d have to change some wording (the second sentence in particular) but I will definitely affirm that “Because I have no voluntary connection to the U.S. I will pay not one penny to extricate myself from U.S. claims of ownership.”
Ditto GwEvil I think I am going to change my name to PbEvil (Past Beyond Evil)
They will have to pry open my bloody cold dead hands before they get one red cent out of me for either amoral penalties or immoral consular fees. They can go straight to Hell.
@ GwEvil, calgary411 and Charl (aka PbEvil)
This is for you:
THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES END AT ITS BORDERS
This is moot for me because I’ve had my CLN for decades, but I totally sympathize and endorse this view.
Along with a not-so-gentle reminder to those homeland Americans who have forgotten their high school history lessons about why the US said in 1812 they were declaring war against Britain (impressment on the high seas of British-born or British-accented American citizens found on US ships going about their business). But then, logical consistency and memory of their own history has never been a strong suit of the vast majority of Americans. And I haven’t (until this sentence) even mentioned the Boston Tea Party and No Taxation Without Representation (not that I think many “accidental Americans” living in Canada would want USC even if they did have elected representation in Congress, which they don’t and likely never will have). Sanctimonious hypocrisy has sadly become, perhaps always has been, the hallmark of US “exceptionalism.”
@ Schubert
It does seem that “exceptionalism” has been drummed into Americans from birth. Here in Canada we had “UNexceptionalism” drummed into us. How many years now has CBC been chasing the answer to the question of what exactly is the “Canadian identity”? (Maybe they don’t want a definitive answer since it’s always a good standby for a topic of discussion.) The two countries do share hypocrisy as a trait though. I think of how Canada openly berated Eritrea and yet continues to stand by silently as the USA executes a version of CBT which goes many orders of magnitude beyond what Eritrea was demanding from its diaspora.
The problem we face here in our home is that the US is forcing citizenship on my wife that she does not and never will want. She is a Canadian and nothing else. When she came to Canada, it was with full intentions of never going to the United states to live. Her home is in Canada. We thought she could relinquish as she works for the government of Canada, however, when we looked at the application for a CLN, you must first sign a statement that you are an American. She say no way, now how and never PERIOD! She is Canadian and will never ever tell anyone that she is anything else. This terrifies her knowing that the US government is trying to get he back for tax purposes only. This is the most despicable thing the US government has ever done to anyone in this world! To the president of the USA, read my lips: you do not own anyone, people are free to live anywhere they want without YOU pursuing them. We will fight for this god given human right!
@Embee. I make a clean and clear distinction between Stephen Harper (and his cabinet) and the Canadian people. More than 60% of whom didn’t vote for Harper’s party in the last federal election (alas we couldn’t agree on who we did want to vote for, with the horrible results we now have). I don’t think most Canadians think Eritrea is worse than the US in this regard, but Harper and his gang obviously seem to. Or are just too damn cowardly to stand up to the US. Kind of hard to stand up for your sovereignty or anything other threat from a broom closet though …
OK EmBee
We NEED to video a karaoke version of this video. Any Brockers that can sing? (Or willing to drink enough to not care)? Maybe THAT will get some attention in DC! A Youtube hit! Change the words a a bit….from “I’m young and I love to be young” to ….um, your good at this. (The word Canadian has too many syllables to fit). Otherwise it is all good to go the way it is! YES, lets do it! Get some white suits and heels…I’m so IN!!!!! That is EXACTLY how I feel. Guess that’s why I left home at 17 and never looked back.
@ Schubert
Oh absolutely, I should have said the current Canadian government and not even implied it was Canadians as a whole who were guilty of the Eritrea-USA hypocrisy. However, Canadians do have a tendency to let these things slip by them and give Harper a free reign to rain on Canada’s sovereignty and to drop scorn and in some cases bombs on targeted nations in his misguided support of the USA.
@ Charl
I thought about that parody but the syllable thing is a problem. The opposite to a problem that I had with a parody I sent to Bubblebustin recently where there were too many syllables per line (did what I could though). Guess there’s no harm in sharing it here:
Harper Fatca I.G.A.
I want to tell you all a story ‘bout some people living troubled lives.
Who got a really rotten hand when Stevie Harper dealt a big surprise.
One day all’s going well for them, no hint they were about to be betrayed.
Next day they all were stricken with the Harper Fatca I.G.A.
Well the Cons said, “U.S. persons, you all owe your Uncle Sam some income tax.
We’ll report you to his taxmen just to keep our banks all safe from his attacks.
Since we don’t believe you didn’t know we’re going to have to legislate this way.
So you now must all abide by the Harper Fatca I.G.A.”
Well it happened that some people said, “This law is bad and worth a fight.”
They joined together and demanded what they know are lawful human rights.
Then they launched a charter challenge so they’d finally have a chance to get their say.
They said, “We want to rid this country of the Harper Fatca I.G.A.”
“We want Canadians whose birthplace was by happenstance the U.S.A.
To be freed from any taxes Uncle Sam thinks they owe and ought to pay.
We want Canadians who were born here to U.S. moms or dads
To be safe from U.S. tax grabs and to know banks in Canada aren’t keeping tabs.”
“For our Canadians with green cards who are living here we make this strong demand
That they can never more be treated like they’re residents on U.S. land.
Harper has the nerve to tell us that as Canadians we are not fit.
Well he is just a U.S. lackey and the Cons are Harper flunky hypocrites.”
No I wouldn’t put you on because it really did, it happened just this way.
The day some people socked it to the Harper Fatca I.G.A.
The day some people socked it to the Harper Fatca I.G.A.
https //www.youtube.com/watch?v=08QH3rVqokw (replace the colon)
It’s not only the money, it’s the fact that you’ve now found yourselves having to defend yourselves of accusations of being American solely based on birth or registration, when for every purpose and definition you aren’t. The best thing I can relate it to is McCarthyism. Guilty by association with your birthplace, parents.
@ Bubblebustin
And for some of us, “a little bitty card let us down”.
I stand with GwEvil and also wholeheartedly endorse this statement.
That too, EmBee.
Your parody of Harper Valley PTA is dee-lightful!
Take a bow or two or three — and an encore, EmBee. Bravo — again!!
Sorry to hijack this thread with musical hijinks. Back to business. Do we have any more resistors?
That should be resisters but the electrical component called a resistor does seem to apply too. Sorry (again), my head is in a strange place today.
I also stand with GwEvil and endorse this statement. As she so aptly stated on another thread, “I don’t think anyone such as accidentals or border babies who have had absolutely nothing to do with the US for their whole lives and have never been in their slave tax system, should have to 1) pay money in order to get INTO the slave tax system 2) pay huge fees to become compliant in order to get OUT of the slave tax system and 3) pay more huge fees in order to renounce something they don’t even consider themselves to be in the first place! It’s all pure extortion and I refuse to pay the extortionists!”
@Embee – great parody. As much as it hurts me to have to admit it, you hit the nail on the head with the line, “Well he is just a U.S. lackey and the Cons are Harper flunky hypocrites.”
As another point of interest, I just heard on the news that Bill Casey is considering running in my riding in the next federal election as a Liberal (against his protégé, Scott Armstrong). I could not imagine myself voting for JT (I don’t even want to say the name), but in Bill Casey’s case, I would be willing to make an exception. Bill Casey had previously been kicked out of the Conservative party for standing up to Stephen Harper and voting against him on a budget bill (confidence vote). If only some of our current Conservatives had a smidgen of his integrity.
Sorry if this is off topic!
#OVDP and the #FBAR Fundraiser are like the “419 Scam” with the cross-border professionals sending the letters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams
For an “accidental American” (who doesn’t believe he is a U.S. citizen) to pay money to the U.S. and/or the “Compliance Condors” is like being victimized by a “419 Scam”.
But, wait under #OVDI the IRS would allow those who didn’t know they were U.S. citizens to pay a penalty of only 5% of their net worth.
“One man’s citizen is another man’s slave”.
Mutual Fund Restrictions for #Americansabroad because they are #USpersons American Citizens Abroad (ACA) https://americansabroad.org/issues/banking/mutual-fund-restrictions/ … – #FATCA
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Did you know that in the USA everything is prohibited unless expressly allowed?
And there are many many more prohibitions for those have been identified as having that U.S. taint.
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Ask yourself the question, what if it were Iran, not the US? What if Iran said:
– We decide who is or who is not an Iranian citizen. We may change the criteria, and when we do we may not tell you or anyone else
– We have governance and authority over Iranian citizens living in your country, including the right to impose penalties for violating Iranian law
Would the Government of Canada assist?