[We now have a NEW POST taking us up to February 1, 2015. This post will be retired from service.]
THE AUTUMN 2014 UPDATE
Dear Donors,
Together, we reached our goal of $100,000 to pay the November 1 legal bill 11 days ahead of schedule!
Thank you Canadian donors from coast to coast and our friends from around the world for your generosity, support and determination — and especially for not being afraid.
The name of our non-profit corporation is the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty.”
We were very deliberate in including in our name the word “sovereignty”, which forms a cornerstone of our Claims against the Government of Canada.
Canada and dozens of other countries throughout the world gave into a bully because their “leaders” were afraid of harm caused by a trading “partner” — and they gave their sovereignties away.
Help us convince by example the Leaders and Governments of all countries worldwide that they should return their sovereignties back to their Peoples.
Please continue to support our lawsuit.
“Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.” (Helen Keller)
— Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, and the ADCS-ADSC team
Chers donateurs,
Ensemble, nous avons atteint notre but d’amasser 100 000 $ pour payer notre facture légale du 1er novembre 11 jours d’avance !
Un gros merci à vous, donateurs canadiens, et à nos amis de tous les coins du monde pour votre grande générosité, soutien et détermination. Et surtout pour votre courage.
Le nom de notre organisme sans but lucratif est « l’Alliance pour la défense de la souveraineté canadienne ».
Nous avons choisi délibérément le mot « souveraineté » puisqu’il constitue la base fondamentale de nos revendications envers le gouvernement du Canada.
Le Canada et des dizaines d’autres pays se sont pliés devant l’intimidation des États-Unis parce que leurs « leaders » ont eu peur des menaces de notre « partenaire » commercial. Ils ont donc vendu leur souveraineté à rabais.
Aidez-nous à convaincre les dirigeants et les gouvernements de tous ces pays qu’ils se doivent de remettre leur souveraineté à leurs peuples.
S’il vous plaît, continuez à soutenir notre cause.
« Seuls, nous pouvons faire si peu. Ensemble, nous pouvons faire beaucoup. » (Helen Keller)
— Ginny, Gwen et toute l’équipe de l’ADCS-ADSC
DONATE to www.adcs-adsc.ca (ADSC en français).
WhiteKat and US_Foreign_Person are making a good point.
Canada changed its laws to help the United States implement FATCA and identify “delinquent” Canadians. Canada did this only because the U.S. threatened economic harm if it refused — Canada was afraid and gave in, just like the rest of the world.
Canada has other laws aimed at protecting its citizens and (as I understand) a “treaty” which says that Canada will not actually collect monies on behalf of the IRS.
I think that WhiteKat is just expressing a lack of confidence in our own Government of Canada. She and I worry that the next time the United States threatens harm (perhaps even more severe) Canada will just roll over and give in again — and we will lose the treaty and other protections.
Are we all really so confident that this will never happen?
—Big legal bill due end of month, please keep donating to
http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/DonateADCS.html
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@DukeOfDevon,
Why did my comment get you so angry Duke? Calm down. No need for ‘wtf’. US_Foreign_Person, and Stephen explained what I meant perfectly…not rocket science actually.
@Momof2, No advice really, but I understand your worry. I am glad you are on this board, where other people can have your back.Good luck to you!
Here is my story. My husband and I (both American-born and raised) got our U.S. passports renewed in 2012 (several yrs. after getting Cdn. citizenship) in order to attend my dad’s memorial service, because the U.S. was insistent and we didn’t dare risk it. Like you, we have our extended family in the U.S. including our three remaining elderly parents that we need to visit since it is hard or impossible for them to come here. However, our Canadian-born kids (now in university) have NEVER had and will not get U.S. passports, Soc. Sec. nos. nor any other U.S. assets. It sounds consulates consider 20-somethings too young to renounce U.S. citizenship, so I believe they should be considered too young to have to be forced into citizenship. Our understanding is that while they can certainly “opt in” to U.S. citizenship, should they want to, they have a grace period right now.
Jan,
What a mess.
Like you, my children were born in Canada to two US citizen parents (ours in the 2-1/2 years just before we were able to become Canadian citizens in 1975). Your children in their 20’s could renounce right now and (born dual, not a choice when born to two US citizen parents I am told by Department of State, Legal – contrary to my feelings on the matter) and somehow had a small window of opportunity between 18 and 18-1/2 to be relieved of that citizenship (I don’t know how and I may be wrong on that). Born in Canada, at least their Canadian passports will not show a USA birth. Best to be clear about their status for whatever decisions you make as that is always the first step before doing anything — or nothing.
WhiteKat It’s simple. I don’t like scare tactics on the part of the compliance industry. ( Moody’s , Kevyn Nightingale , Mopsick , et al) but I also think scaring people who write to IBS with questions is counter productive. I’m not angry. I’m quite calm.
@Duke, There is a big difference between scaring people, and warning them. Try to discern this before you jump on people who fit in the latter category.
I think people needs to have some common sense here. Children born in Canada from US parents, who have not been registered at the consulate and don’t have US passports are unknown to the US, don’t have US indicia, should not have to worry about anything. For all intended purposes, they’re Canadians. No paranoia, please.
@Duke
Pointing out possibilities based on past behaviour of the Conservatives seems a relevant issue to keep in mind. Scary yes, a scare tactic, hardly. The potential for this to happen makes our legal challenge all the more relevant. Do you actually believe there is absolutely NO possibility of the government caving further? We all thought they would never sign the IGA to begin with. So much for that theory.
@CommonSense
I agree that it is possible to be too paranoid. However, I have wondered, what might happen if the parents are still living, perhaps even in the US. What might happen if such a person inherits, or acts as the executor of her US citizen parent’s estate?
@CommonSense,
I assume you are referring to the ongoing discussion between Jan and other Brockers that I was not a part of, as opposed to the discussion between Duke and I which is a different topic.
I agree, when you say that children born in Canada having US parents can likely go undetected and have little to worry about (I wish I was in their position), but it is NOT PARANOID to think that IRS will not be satisfied just to look at mounds of FATCA data, and not try to use it to steal money from Canadian grandmothers regardless of current Canadian protections that prevent IRS from collecting on taxes/penalties from Canadians. We’ve seen our Canadian government in action. We know they are very capable of throwing Canadians under the bus to save the banks. They can do it again. Inch by inch, the noose gets tighter (sorry Duke if you think I am being scary).
@Commonsense, ” For all intended purposes, they’re Canadians. No paranoia, please.”
I will attempt to add some clarity on this though may fail spectacularly.
In the post-FATCA/GATCA world it is very wise for anyone to consider what if any FOREIGN Governments may claim someone to be a Citizen weither they consent to the “gift” or not.
A person born in Canada to two accidental Americans is in fact considered a US Citizen regardless if they have any trappings or not.
Having knowledge that a FOREIGN Government considers you to be one of theirs regardless if a FOREIGN Government knows about you is WISE.
An individual who is considered a citizen by a FOREIGN Government without being forwarned might frankly say something they should not say!!
In the EU, I have personal knowledge of a young college student attempting to open an account who submitted an EU birth certificate showing a parent with an “unambiguous US place of birth” who had nothing but grief and finally said they did not want an account with that FI. Up to age 20 it is common to allow a birth certificate as one type of ID. This person never had a US Passport, does not consider himself to be a US Citizen but is in fact a US Citizen.
@Commonsense, let me use what Calgary just wrote to explain a little further.
Under US Law that child is automatically a US Citizen weither you notify or not, they are what they are.
But, does US Nationality Law apply in Canada or any other Country? Most will say NO. You can only have one functioning nationality at any one time. This is confirmed by the Master Nationality Rule.
In my mind, I think it is fairly safe to say that Calgary’s son under Canadian Law is solely and absolutely Canadian.
Should her son travel south, a FOREIGN government would disregard his Canadian Citizenship and consider him one of theirs.
If the Canadian Government was pressed, I believe they would render a legal opinion that he is solely and absolutely Canadian. This would be the direct opposite of the opinion from the US State Dept.
I know this is sometimes hard to wrap your head around. 🙂
Can a Canadian Citizen born in the USA but resident in Canada be anything other than Canadian? I say no because you have to ask what is your legal status in said country. If said person was an American they would be an illegal migrant without a visa!!!
CommonSense,
…except the one who has been vocal about her son’s entrapment into US citizenship without the ability of himself or parent / trustee to renounce on his behalf. I don’t think it is paranoia on my part. I have been told in no uncertain terms from Department of State, Legal that my children, born in Canada, to two US citizen parents became US citizens from their moment of birth. Although I disagree, will that be enough to save my family? My son is identified on my FBARs that I filed in compliance for US taxes and reporting to be able to renounce my US citizenship (the second time around I thought I was no longer a US citizen — the first being when I became a Canadian citizen in 1975).
Please don’t confuse paranoia with what should be justice for ALL Canadians (or those of any other country). This is not about hiding from the US boogeyman; it is about just law and our Canadian government standing up for all Canadians, not allowing US law to override that of Canada, including the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That is why I have spoken out in the media — it’s not particularly easy to ‘come out’ with your name to try to protect your own son and others like him in families who have little voice! That is why I donate monthly, as I can, to the Alliance for Defence of Canadian Sovereignty. I am 71 right now and want to live the remainder of my life without having to look over my shoulder — and I don’t want one penny of what should go to my Canadian-born (*supposedly* US citizen son) to go to the US IRS. I have already given them $3,661 of my hard-earned, Canadian-taxed retirement savings because I am the Holder for my son’s CANADIAN Registered Disability Savings Plan. Don’t confuse paranoia with due diligence on what an individual’s or a family decision must be. Please!
Due diligence before making a decision with someone’s else’s advice is like thinking your wish has been granted and you can stick your head back down into the sand. We all must make responsible decisions. Among our decisions could be choosing to do nothing, but it must be our own well-researched and thought-out decision.
One of your best decisions, and real COMMON SENSE, to go along with what you will decide to do regarding yourself and your family is to donate to the Canadian litigation: http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/.
Scare tactic or not, this Conservative government cannot be trusted with the charter and the rights of Canadian citizens. Harper is easily swayed by the US and is willing to sell our people out. “Whatever Lola wants Lola gets”! I wish we could get rid of this guy but alas another year to go. We’ll make it and with ADCS on the horizon there is hope.
@George
You wrote: “If the Canadian Government was pressed, I believe they would render a legal opinion that he is solely and absolutely Canadian.”
I hope that the legal action against the Canadian government forces the Canadian government to do just that – to confirm that all Canadians should be treated equally and offered the same protections by its government.
How long does the Canadian government have to respond to this latest submission from Mr Arvay?
Children born abroad to two US parents are automatically US citizens but if only one parent is a US citizen there is a residency requirement on the part of the US parent in order to pass on the citizenship which includes a specified time after the age of 14. Luckily those of us who left the US as young children cannot pass on this citizenship.
See: http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents
@heartsick
Not to say that this applies, but the physical presence specifications are different for children born out of wedlock and depends on whether it’s the father or mother conferring citizenship. In the mother’s case, it’s one year of US residency any time prior to the child’s birth, for the father must have been “physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions prior to the child’s birth for five years, at least two of which were after reaching the age of 14.”
http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-child-born-abroad.html
@ CommonSense
True — no paranoia needed. I actually never knew the name of the little Canadian town where my Mom was born until I was in my twenties I think. If these Canadian borns are asked where their parents were born (not likely they will be asked) they could say they aren’t at all sure. And they could take some simple precautions like going through US customs in separate lines or separate times if they happen to be travelling to the USA with their parents who, sadly, will never be able to erase “Born in the USA” from their passports.
@ calgary411
Donating to ADCS is actually how I neutralize, in part, the toxic stress of this FATCA mess. You do much, much more than donate so I’m hoping all those true and noble actions you have taken will help you detox too.
@ some readers here
Sitting by, just watching and worrying, will not do much for the anxiety you are feeling so make at least one donation to see if that doesn’t make you feel a bit better. And if you do — THANK YOU!
Blaze has been very quiet at the Sandbox and on her twitter for a week now. Does anyone know if she is okay? Not that she shouldn’t be resting if she needs to and wants to but I’m just wondering. I hope it means she is finally out of rehab and back at home and simply needs time to settle back in.
We’re thinking about you @Blaze … and we need you full force whenever you are completely recovered.
@ Bubblebustin Good to know the out of wedlock rules. We tend to generalize and that’s why coming to this site is so important. So much knowledge here. My children are still safe from this citizenship, I was so relieved that this was the case.. I have donated to the cause as well.
@George – actually a child born to two accidental Americans, ie. ones that left the US as small children or infants, are not considered US citizens by default (thank goodness!). There is a formula whereby one of the US parents must have lived in the US up to, I believe, 5 years past the age of 14 and then have to have had their children before 5 or 10 years (can’t remember exactly), have passed since they left the US. I, therefore, luckily did not pass on my US taint to my kids having left there as a small child (phewf!). They can only try to become US citizens through claiming it through their grandmother (and obviously I would NOT advise that!!). There are more complications about whether the mother or father was married or common law and which parent was the US citizen etc., but that is the basic formula-ish way to figure it out.
I see I am late on the entry! That is what I get for not refreshing my page. Bubblebustin beat me to the punch!
EmBee,
Yep, as you know, I am indebted to Brock for my sanity and want others never to make the same mistakes as I did. It definitely is the antidote to US citizenship poison in our family.
What an excellent suggestion you make to those watching and worrying. It certainly does help to be in the game against our foe to not feel so helpless. http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/ is where you can help. Time and generosity are of the essence! And, thanks from me and many, many others here as well.
Donate and information sharing. I’m so grateful to Isaac Brock for the positive things it’s doing for people in our predicament. I can’t imagine how I’d be doing if I couldn’t benefit from and contribute to Brock. Here’s to the spirit of Sir Isaac Brock!