[We now have a NEW POST taking us up to February 1, 2015. This post will be retired from service.]
THE AUTUMN 2014 UPDATE
Dear Donors,
Together, we reached our goal of $100,000 to pay the November 1 legal bill 11 days ahead of schedule!
Thank you Canadian donors from coast to coast and our friends from around the world for your generosity, support and determination — and especially for not being afraid.
The name of our non-profit corporation is the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty.”
We were very deliberate in including in our name the word “sovereignty”, which forms a cornerstone of our Claims against the Government of Canada.
Canada and dozens of other countries throughout the world gave into a bully because their “leaders” were afraid of harm caused by a trading “partner” — and they gave their sovereignties away.
Help us convince by example the Leaders and Governments of all countries worldwide that they should return their sovereignties back to their Peoples.
Please continue to support our lawsuit.
“Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.” (Helen Keller)
— Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, and the ADCS-ADSC team
Chers donateurs,
Ensemble, nous avons atteint notre but d’amasser 100 000 $ pour payer notre facture légale du 1er novembre 11 jours d’avance !
Un gros merci à vous, donateurs canadiens, et à nos amis de tous les coins du monde pour votre grande générosité, soutien et détermination. Et surtout pour votre courage.
Le nom de notre organisme sans but lucratif est « l’Alliance pour la défense de la souveraineté canadienne ».
Nous avons choisi délibérément le mot « souveraineté » puisqu’il constitue la base fondamentale de nos revendications envers le gouvernement du Canada.
Le Canada et des dizaines d’autres pays se sont pliés devant l’intimidation des États-Unis parce que leurs « leaders » ont eu peur des menaces de notre « partenaire » commercial. Ils ont donc vendu leur souveraineté à rabais.
Aidez-nous à convaincre les dirigeants et les gouvernements de tous ces pays qu’ils se doivent de remettre leur souveraineté à leurs peuples.
S’il vous plaît, continuez à soutenir notre cause.
« Seuls, nous pouvons faire si peu. Ensemble, nous pouvons faire beaucoup. » (Helen Keller)
— Ginny, Gwen et toute l’équipe de l’ADCS-ADSC
DONATE to www.adcs-adsc.ca (ADSC en français).
Now if only the EU got it together to challenge FATCA too – on behalf of its member states if that is possible.
I remember the very astute and informed questions of Sophie int Veld http://youtu.be/3uVZiFNkDsA
http://www.aaro.org/banking/402-european-parliament-committee-hearing-on-fatca
Well, Mr Yue didn’t tell me to go fish! (Really thought he might when I started getting all bossy!) So in response to my advice (yes, that is a joke, kinda): have a chin-wag with Boehner re including this in his executive overreach challenge and hand him Jatras’s latest Forbes article for fodder, light a fire under Bopp, tell the RNC to “pony up” this could be a single issue election for many, (but they really do need to nix their neanderthal stance on social issues), they just might take the senate this fall. The RNC also has to understand there are 7.5 million of us, many with families in the homeland that exponentially expand our numbers, that are VERY unhappy about this situation. There are LOTS of votes that could be swung and help take the big house in 2016. I also asked for support for our human rights submission with the link.
His response was: (Do you think this was a polite way to say “go fish”? This response was similar to what my children say when they just want to shut me up).
Understood.
My goal is to replace FATCA and Citizenship Based Taxation with Residence Based Taxation legislatively. So 7.6 million overseas Americans do not have to be double taxed in the long run. We use FATCA lawsuit to render FATCA inoperable in order to force the House and Senate and next President to offer a legislative fix – RBT. That is the reason we have to not only win the FATCA lawsuit but also raise money publicly to pay for it. This is a public support building process for our legislative goal.
So his approach is a bit different than ours I think. He isn’t looking for large donors to launch the challenge, he is trying to amass public support for legislative change, going for donations/support from lots of people rather than just having the RNC pick up the tab even if they were so inclined. His task is a bit bulkier than ours and unfortunately may take a long time. But he is going after the head of the snake, we are just going after the venom. I also sent along our prayers for his success as he so kindly sent his to us.
I am not sure his approach will really work when that speech is given to homelanders. While he’ll get full support from expats, there are still a lot of homelanders, who think their fellow citizen, even if living abroad should pay tribute to the homeland in the form of taxes, especially for short term expats. We are considered privileged for getting experience abroad.
They need to catter the message to companies, who have to pay accountants and extra pay to the people they send abroad. They might only get support from these multinationals.
Directions to ADCS are being inserted in comment sections so I hope to see a big red July 30th UPDATE on that website soon. Hint. Hint. 🙂
@Charl, you list the Republican plan. Then there is the Canadian plan. Something like this ADCS challenge and human rights complaint to pose serious questions to the Canadian government. Then the plan should to get them to change the Canadian-US tax treaty so no matter what happens with the laws in the US in the future Canadians will be protected with blanket exemptions from US tax for Canadian residents.
RE: gaining widespread U.S. support. That will be a challenge – it is all very difficult to understand and for some when tax or tax returns are mentioned they turn off. However, if say we have the Canadian government and others speaking out against it than that would help to head off an Obama veto. Then next they might put a little bill and attach it to another – DC style – to get it all removed.
@Charl
“7.5 million of us, many with families in the homeland that exponentially expand our numbers, that are VERY unhappy about this situation.” Please replace “families” with “families and friends.”
We need to develop a good argument for our Democratic families and friends to vote Republican.
Might it start something like this: The Democrats have been known as the party of compassion. However, their support of FATCA and citizenship based taxation has meant the following for Americans living abroad…
A little help here.
EmBee, the ADCS website will soon have updates, and we will also have a version in french (we are really sorry for the delay).
Tomorrow there will be an update of this post, in which we finally provide details (which we could not provide before retaining Mr. Arvay) on the monies we need to keep the litigation going, with timelines. I recall that you mentioned above in a comment that giving to ADCS will not hurt — but this giving, over and over and over again, is going to hurt.
@ Stephen Kish
Thanks for the update on the upcoming update. What would really hurt would be to see the USA get away with this assault on Canadians’ savings and Canada’s sovereignty without having done as much as possible to protest. After watching the video of Joseph Arvay I am convinced he will present our case brilliantly. BTW, I just popped Twig#3 in the mailbox about an hour ago but I wish someone with deeper pockets than mine would come forward and add an actual branch to the legal fund we’re building.
EmBee, thanks for yet another contribution the equivalent of your OAS cheque (plus?). I / We are so thankful for those like you.
My wish is that someone with real integrity and heart and those deeper pockets for the sovereignty of this country will take a stand to help. I’ve seen the community of Calgary come together so many times for causes — is the sovereignty of Canada not a cause worth coming together for?
He/She/They do not have to be *US Persons* who could be outing themselves for the US Exit Tax. They could be a friend of a *US Person*, a relative of a *US Person* or just some one who really cares about Canada and all the people who live within its borders; someone who really believes in the concept of a Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Are there any such out there — there must be or it is a sad state of affairs. We must find a way.
@EmBee, @calgary411
I suspect it will be easier to attract the support of people with deeper pockets once the following happens:
“Soon we will provide an updated post on the monies we will need to raise, with timelines, to sustain the litigation.”
People with more $$$ in my experience usually want a clear and precise sense of what is needed before making a significant commitment.
@JC
I find it impossible to fathom how a Democrat could be convinced to jump parties. With the Republicans so “out there” on social, gun and military issues at the moment there are no possible valid arguments other than this single issue. There are basically no centrists anymore, they all quit. I think the only possibility is to somehow convince the Dems that CBT is just simply a bad idea. If Chris Matthew’s views in his latest article in the Economist holds across the party one can only wonder if they have gone mad also. Do they really believe the fat cat tax evaders are just sitting around waiting to be FATCA’ed? I cannot believe/so hope they are not that ignorant.
So how does one deal with irrationality, deal with a collective OCD personality that is trying to exist in a world of chaos? They are just spinning out of control trying to get the universe into neat world order under their supervision. When the task is impossible they just try harder, unable to just let it go. Not only did the terrorists take down the towers, the took control of the very DNA of the country. With the Snowden revelations, CIA spying on congressional aids, expanding the terrorist list, guns, FATCA and controlling global banking, the list goes on….they are all part of the same cloth. The country is like a raging massive OCD suffering dinosaur that was wounded and is now running about the world with distemper. The antidote for the disease seems unavailable.
So I guess I am just left with the depressing feeling that the battle inside the US is hopeless, yet that is where it needs to be fought. Like a person suffering from alcoholism, they cannot be cured until they realize they have a problem themselves. There is much about the world that I do not understand, maybe they are reacting to something we know nothing about and we are just being sacrificed. I have absolutely no idea, yet I am very anxious and fearful of both the unknown and the outcome. All we can do I think is try and keep the dinosaur out of our country. Try and convince our banks to move on, reconfigure our trade agreements, man I don’t know. All I know that every possibility comes at a huge cost. In reality you can’t change anyone else, only your reaction to them. We need a Canadian government and a banking system with a different world view. To cure the US I vote for the Dalai Lama as the next president, I actually think that is what it will take.
If you really want to play U.S. politics (I suspect it’s a giant waste of time), you’re not likely to convince anyone to vote for the other party. It’s hard enough convincing people to hold their nose & vote for the other guy when it’s their own pocketbook at stake. When it’s their friend’s pocketbook? Not a chance.
Where you might succeed is in encouraging people to vote in their own party’s primaries, and maybe to cast that vote against certain incumbents. (Look at what happened to Eric Cantor, for example.) At least this way you have a chance of getting the most egregious offenders replaced by people (albeit people of the same party) who aren’t on a personal crusade to make life harder for U.S. Persons abroad.
And that applies to both parties. The Dems are hardly the only ones proposing extraterritorial tax hikes & more indecipherable acronyms. Witness Chuck Grassley (who created FEIE stacking in TIPRA, voted in favour of passport confiscation for tax reasons, etc.). Or Dennis Ross, who proposed repealing the FEIE to pay for territorial taxation for corporations. Or Tom Coburn, who thinks U.S. Persons abroad should be penalised for working for non-American companies.
I believe you speak for many of us Charl. The fear of the uncertainty, the acknowledgement that to avoid not bring sucked into the madness we must make a conscientious effort to avoid it. As you write: “In reality you can’t change anyone else, only your reaction to them”, really says it all, doesn’t it? Personal responsibility, and action.
@recent. I realise that over the past maybe 20 years there has been polarisation of the American electrorate. I can’t accept that everyone is in either one camp or the other. Ok with the Democrats, we may ask them to vote the other party, or at least abstain from voting if they can not bring themselves to vote for the other party. I believe the ask is worth it as it may at least raise some awareness as to the injustice. At least we should ask Republicans to yes do vote. Hopefully, before the elections the Democrats may come to their senses a bit.
Re: fear of uncertainty. That is why the plan can not rely only on changes of the US law. There must be a change in the Canada-US tax treaty that would help protect against future changes in U.S. law.
There have been a couple of mentions in these comments of our Human Rights Complaint that is also underway as a second “front” in our fight against FATCA and CBT. We are hoping to have a link to this thread on the sidebar soon but, for now, scroll down the page and take a look.
Aren’t there any celebrities affected by FATCA that could be asked for donations?
@Moose, the thing about celebrities is they have the money to hire their international tax attorney’s, pay the cost and still be dual if they choose to. Having their data shared is perhaps not that big of a threat to them either as they will just let the attorney deal with everything making sure they are fine and dandy. It would be difficult to get one of them to care how the little people are being treated. Of course all while they tout how much they care about the middle class. There are some celebrities who years ago got out of the U.S. system. Terry Gilliam did. Having said that it might be worth it to approach some of them if a list could be made. Contacting them is usually done through an agent.
As for turning around what people in the U.S. think of all this that will be no easy task. In about two or three years when they finally realize FATCA is part and parcal of all this huge data gathering on innocent citizens they will wake up and blogs and articles will be written. Right now their view is only going to negatively impact tax cheats or expats and who cares about expats. Good luck changing the narrative they’ve held dear since the Civil War that expats are to be punished for leaving.
Today’s updated post now details the significant monies we need to raise, with timelines, to keep this litigation going and get us through the first court.
@Stephen
OK, my ancient brain has a sum total of zero knowledge surrounding the litigation process. Is there a chance in Hell this could be overturned in the lower courts? If there is a possibility that Harper was just too chicken-poop terrified to say no but could hide behind the courts overturning the the IGA? He could then save face, and maybe will not fight back with vengeance? (Is this the type of question that someone that just fell off a turnip truck asks)?
@charl, have no fear I thought the same thing.
The issue appears cut and dry. Lets say Court 1 strikes it down. We are not going to appeal so its up to Harper to appeal. What if he says no mas and folds up?
Is there merit for Harper to take the risk of going to the Supreme Court and being defeated?
@Stephen, when will the first legal filing be made? I ask because that will generate publicity and talking points. I pray that helps the money.
Charl,
Good question, but our expectation is that no matter who wins in the first court, the decision will be appealed to the next court by the losing side. We don’t see the opposition (“our” Government of Canada) ever backing off — and the opposition has the advantage of using the taxpayer dollars that you personally provide.
We rely on the kindness of donors like you and EmBee.
@Stephen “like many Brockers who apparently have no fixed address!”
That comment had me rolling on the floor.
Oh……no fixed address and working in multiple currencies. 🙂
@Sad in the UK, “I’m coming to realize how very precious the cause for HOPE is that you are giving to us. Not easy for me to find funds (as I’m sure is true for many of us) but I’m coming to understand that the HOPE and DIGNITY gained is worth every penny. Wish it could be more!”
All I can say is brother/sister, I am with you, I am with you…..
Its August, time for another envelope with no fixed address and the only question….what currency.
@Stephen K, “We don’t see the opposition (“our” Government of Canada) ever backing off”
Why? That seems illogical.
If they lose on round due to solid legal reasons it makes no sense to go on. The opposition has nothing to gain when in fact they could generate good will by admitting defeating and listening to the Court.
@Badger – you mentioned the EU? Any EU citizen can bring a case to the European Court of Justice and depending on the country, there may be legal aid available for that individual to pursue the case.
In the past there have been individual decisions that have forced the UK Government change retirement ages, a German company to pay a widow holiday pay, and recently a Spanish man who successfully argued that Google should remove his search links about his house that was repossessed (the so-called right to be forgotten).
These cases were mounted by individuals not class action style legal challenges. While in Canada class action is the way to go, however, in Europe it’s the individual which if the European Court of Justice agreed would probably carve out resident EU citizens.
What I suspect is that somewhere in the EU a resident EU citizen could now be thinking (or even doing) is quietly challenging this FATCA discrimination.
Indeed when I go back abroad I’m thinking of doing just that.
The way it’ll work will be one day you’ll suddenly see a news story on the internet that some nondescript person overturned an IGA for resident EU citizens. At that point in theory it would apply to the rest within the EU. Individual EU member states would then have to go back to their respective parliaments and sort it out.
The European Court of Justice is meant to give the little guy redress to wrongful government decisions.