This post appeared on the RenounceUSCitizenship blog.
The following tweets reference two great summaries of the AARO FATCA meeting on October 6, 2014 in Paris:
Big news! @SenMikeLee opposes #FATCA and outlines specific steps to achive repeal https://t.co/hn4satz3iQ
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) October 7, 2014
@VictoriaFerague post on @AARO #FATCA meeting with @SenMikeLee and Jim Bopp http://t.co/3mNawWpvu0 "There is a tide in the affairs of men"
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) October 7, 2014
This is excellent and welcome news. What I particularly like are the specific reasons given for his opposition to FATCA and making his thinking the juridical basis for Jim Bopp’s FATCA Legal Action lawsuit.
As an aside – could it really be true that Senator Lee is the only “Constitutional Scholar” in the Senate? Also of note, is that Senator Lee’s father Rex Lee, served as Solicitor General under President Reagen.
It appears that Senator Lee has joined Senator Rand Paul as the first American politicians to actively oppose FATCA.
Welcome news indeed!
I take the Liberty of quoting from Victoria Ferauge’s superb account of the meeting:
Senator Lee spoke first and he began with some anecdotes from the time when he was first elected to the Senate. He’s a young man with a quiet and modest demeanour. He recounted how in the very beginning he had moments where because of his youth and appearance he was taken for something other than a member of that august body, the US Senate, and how he finally had to quietly but firmly assert himself as the elected-by-the-people junior Senator from Utah. He invited us to laugh with him and we did. But the funny stories took a very serious turn when he shared the lesson he drew from that experience: “We must assert what is rightfully ours,” he said, “if it is to have any meaning.”
US citizens wherever they live, he said, have constitutional rights that cannot be taken away by anyone.
And how can the Senator say such a thing with so much conviction? Because he was an American abroad himself. Because his mother was born in Europe to two expatriate American citizens. Because he has a son abroad today.
With great candour he explained that FATCA was part of a larger bill that most US lawmakers probably didn’t read and surely barely understood before they voted on it. Furthermore, there was no real political risk to them – no chance that they would lose their seats by attacking Americans abroad, a population little-known and slightly threatening to people in the American homeland. In light of what has happened since it was passed (the citizenship renunciations and the widespread discrimination it has brought to US citizens abroad), it should be repealed, he said, and that’s not a liberal versus conservative, or republicans versus democrats issue; it’s an American issue. “I will fight until it’s done,” he assured us, and, “While you can’t vote for me, I can vote for you.”
Mr. Bopp then took the floor and with quiet precision he laid out the case he is preparing against FATCA and the hated FBAR (renamed the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network Form 114), the latter of which he rightly noted, is based on the assumption that Americans abroad are all tax cheats and simply can’t be trusted. FATCA, too, is all about stopping the, as John McCain said, “illegal activities” of the American population abroad. The fines for non-compliance are clearly excessive, he said, and noted one case where an individual caught in the dragnet ended up paying 150% of the value of the non-reported account.
Americans have rights, he noted, under the US Constitution. Government must make an “individualized determination and (have) probable cause” to go after people it believes are violating the law. FATCA and FBAR are nothing more than “fishing expeditions” and while the US IRS does have some leniency in this area, this is “off the scale” and he believes that US courts will strike them down. And all this, he said, to enforce a system of citizenship (not residence)-based taxation which results in “adverse and differential treatment” against Americans abroad.
Thank you! I just got back from church and was looking for my admin password so I could post something about the meeting here at Brock. But lo and behold, you beat me to it and I can now make a cup of coffee and leisurely read comments. If anyone has any questions about the Paris meeting, ask away and I will do my best to answer them. If anyone is at the London meeting, I would LOVE to compare notes.
More commentary on the tour – Luxembourg:
http://www.chronicle.lu/component/k2/item/8581-european-anti-fatca-enforcement-4-city-tour-comes-to-luxembourg
Republicans Overseas Action is making a four city tour to inform Americans of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) that has been passed by Congress in 2010 and took effect in July of this year that does not solve the problem of tax evasion.
According to Republicans Overseas Luxembourg, FATCA deprives 7.6 million overseas Americans’ constitutional protections such as privacy rights, presumption of innocence, due process, and no cruel and unusual punishment. On tour will be Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah) and superstar U.S. Supreme Court litigator Jim Bopp, Jr. as well as Solomon Yue, Vice Chairman and CEO, Republicans Overseas, Inc. & Republicans Overseas Action, Inc. The stop will be 7 October 2014 and cover high level meetings and the concerned public throughout the day. They will travel to Paris, London, Luxembourg, and Geneva.
Mike Lee, known as constitutional scholar of the Senate and Chairman of the Senate Steering Committee, has demonstrated his willingness to confront the U.S. Treasury regarding an intergovernmental approach to improving international tax compliance and implementing FATCA. In July of 2012, Senator Lee joined Senators Rand Paul, Jim DeMint, and Saxby Chambliss to write to then Treasury Secretary Geithner requesting for FATCA documents to support Treasury’s announced six nation agreement of exchange of information under the guise of FATCA with specific questions such as implementation authority, scope of mandates on domestic U.S. financial institutions, cost of mandates on domestic U.S. financial institutions, compromise of personal financial data, and the role of the OECD, the EU, and other organizations.
Jim Bopp, the hard-charging lawyer who persuaded the Supreme Court to strike down crucial elements in the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law, has a new target in his legal sights: a bank and taxation statute that hits Americans overseas. Mr. Bopp is assembling a legal attack on the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, which he and other critics say intrudes on financial privacy and scares banks from doing business with Americans living overseas.
“The U.S. Constitution protects every citizen’s liberty and freedom, while FATCA undermines both,” Mr. Bopp told The Washington Times. “This astonishingly bad law manages to thumb its nose at the Constitution.” His legal challenge once again will put him on the opposite side of Republican John McCain, the long-serving senator from Arizona who was one of the two key sponsors — along with then-Sen. Russ Feingold, Wisconsin Democrat — of the campaign finance limits that Mr. Bopp defeated before the Supreme Court in 2010.
In addition, According to Republicans Overseas Luxembourg stated that it is helpful if you remember the following: Republicans introduced a bill to repeal anti-privacy provisions of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and put an end to a defective bill that does not accomplish its objective of ending tax evasion. FATCA infringes upon basic constitutional rights, for under FATCA, private data of anyone considered a “U.S. Person” would have details of their financial assets provided to the IRS without a warrant requirement, suspicious activity report (SAR), or any allegation of wrongdoing at all. Stated in its simplest form, FATCA would require every non-American financial institution (such as banks, credit unions, pension funds, stock and investment firms, etc.) to register directly with the IRS and agree to provide specified financial data on the accounts of any “U.S. Person.” Perhaps even more troubling, the implementation of FATCA has allowed the Treasury Department to make independent decisions with respect to the sovereignty of foreign nations and the privacy of United States citizens. In order to implement this law, Treasury has initiated intergovernmental agreements (IGAs), citing the intent to engage in reciprocal information sharing with other nations. In other words, the Treasury Department, without the consent and authority of Congress, will force U.S. financial institutions to provide the bank account information of private customers to foreign nations. Senator Rand Paul said: “Tax evasion is a problem that should be addressed, but not in such an egregious way. FATCA violates important privacy protections, disregards the sovereign laws of other nations and will cost the U.S. economy hundreds of billions of dollars in compliance costs,” he continued. “FATCA should be repealed, and Congress should consider less onerous means of enforcing tax laws.”
And more – London:
http://www.republicansoverseas-uk.com/boppleeevent
Home »
An evening with U.S. Senator Mike Lee
Posted by William Lowery 30sc on · Flag · Add your reaction
Senator Mike Lee
Join ROUK Members for a private dinner with photo opportunity in support of U.S. Senator Mike Lee. We’ll discuss the fight for control of the U.S. Senate in November.
The son of President Reagan’s solicitor general, Mr. Lee prides himself on his Senate role as defender of fiscal responsibility and constitutional principles. Chairman of the Senate Steering Committee means he’ll be among the most influential conservatives at the Capitol in the run-up to the next presidential election. If the GOP wins at least six of the seats it’s after this fall, Lee will be positioned to play a central role in assembling and advancing the legislative agenda of a newly Republican Congress.
Personal contributions are requested for this event. Please RVSP and we’ll send along the relevant donation form, as well as provide additional event details. The event will be hosted by one of members residing in South-East London.
WHEN
October 06, 2014 at 6pm – 7:30pm
WHERE
ROUK Member Private Residence
London SE15
United Kingdom
Google map and directions
CONTACT
ROUK Events · info@republicansoverseas-uk.com
Geneva:
http://allevents.in/geneva/how-to-take-down-fatca-inivtation-dinner-with-us-senator-mike-lee/718293204921095#
Please Join the Republicans Overseas Action
Abolish FATCA European Four City Tour
Topic: How to take down FATCA
In Honor of
United States Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah)
Chairman of the U.S. Senate Steering Committee
and
Mr. James Bopp, Jr.
U.S. Supreme Court litigator, Named “SuperLawyer” by The Washington Times
Wednesday October 8, 2014
7:30-10 PM
Private Dinner
Hotel d’Angleterre
Quai du Mont Blanc 17
Geneva, Switzerland
CHF 250 Per Attendee Private Dinner
Corporate Contribution Gold and Silver levels also available.
Please RSVP with
ek@strategic-swiss-advisors.com
For more information please contact
Edward Karr or Edward Flaherty
at +41 79 370 3739 or +41 78 652 9758
As helpful as these events are, they seem to be aimed at a very small number of people. Sounds like the Paris event was the most open. Doesn’t sound very easy for the general public to attend the meetings in London, Geneva, etc.
Anything mentioned about the hike in renunciation fee at any of these meetings?
Can this be reversed as well?
Also, why wait till the next elections to attempt to do anything legislatively. In the even that republicans take the Senate next month, why not pass something and take the risk of the president vetoing it?
The Republican party has an image problem in the US. They haven’t united and their current views on minorities, Hispanics, and women is not going to attract them. With the shift in ethnic groups in the US, that does not play in their favor. Not sure how likely it is they’ll win the White House in 2016, but polls show they might win the Senate next month.
This is am vital initiative. Attacking FATCA at its root by having this US-based legislation struck down in a US court is fundamental. However, I’m concerned it could divert supporter funds from the ADCS Canadian Charter challenge.
There are significant differences:
The Lee / Bopp initiative relies on support from people who probably mostly identify as US citizens who happen to live abroad. The Canadian Charter Challenge appeals to many people who are primarily Canadians with so-called “US person” status imposed upon them by a foreign state; and also people who renounced or relinquished US citizenship, but continue to support the cause on principle.
The US case is based upon the constitutional protections that US citizens have. The Canadian case is based upon Canadian sovereignty, national origin discrimination against Canadians in Canada and Charter protection from discrimination and unreasonable invasions of privacy.
Both cases are important. How can they best support and advance their mutual interests? Can they share resources, such as research, witness statements and expert opinions? Would a Canadian legal victory boost the standing of the Lee / Bopp action? I believe it would.
It’s interesting how this action has created bipartisan strange bedfellows; Republicans and the NDP are both opposed to FATCA! Where the hell is the Liberal Party of Canada policy statement on this issue?
Will the Lee / Bopp roadshow come to Canada? I’m sure they would find an attentive audience. Could be good for media coverage as well.
Thank you for this post, USCitizenAbroad and for Victoria’s take…
It is apparent to most of us here that litigation is so important and we must make sure litigation is carried out in as many locations as possible. We MUST continue to support with our donations until we have reality!
Victoria reported from Mr. Bopp’s presentation, and which we already know from Allison Christians’ work and other legal professionals, especially in Canada re the Canadian side of “legal”:
Equally frustrating is that the room in Paris was not huge, however the hall was not filled.
The amount of people that are active in the opposition the better. These guys are not going to be able to pull of the legislative side on their own. Anyone possible who can add momentum is going to help the effort. Anyone who is able to help turn the media propaganda upside down in going to be helpful.
Sen. Lee is considering a three-pronged approach:
1) to have a congressional hearing regarding FATCA’s negative impact on overseas U.S. citizens and their foreign spouses,
2) to defund FATCA enforcement, and
3) to enlist bipartisan support to repeal FATCA legislatively in 2017, when the Republican Party controls the White House.
Defunding FATCA is possible from the House of Representatives. That was discussed.
There would likely be media issues to consider if they took that route, which was not discussed.
Wondering,
Thanks for pointing out the differences in the two legal suits now in hand — the US “Bopp” litigation and Canada’s “Arvay” litigation. Both are vital. Both need our full support however we can manage. It is our job to make sure these are funded to go ahead. It is our job to stop the FATCA monster for *US Persons* Abroad.
I have renounced my US citizenship. My fight is especially in Canada against my government representatives who have decided not ALL Canadians have the same rights and banks are more important than its people: http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/
Yep, I was surprised the room was so small. Every seat around the table was taken and some people took seats on the extra chairs against the walls. I know we were warned by the AARO office that it was almost sold out two days before the event so I think they only counted the seats at the table.
Also a bit startled by the cost of some of the other events in other cities here. I think ACA is getting their members a discount for the one in Geneva. Can anyone confirm that?
The renunciation fee rise was, as I recall, mentioned a few times by Bopp and people in the audience. It doesn’t seem to be specifically targeted in their lawsuit.
Oh and just for fun (from my notes which I just consulted) there was a comment from a woman in the back who said that If the Republicans are for RBT and against FATCA, “then a lot of people are going to switch parties.” The Dems abroad person replied quietly (and I thought with a bit of frustration) that Democrats Abroad were for RBT too and had been for a long time.
@Victoria and I Was There
Up until now, I haven’t really been all that excited about the FATCA suit in the US. Don’t really know why.
Once I read your accounts of this meeting, I suddenly feel like I am a part of something bigger. Energizing!
“While you can’t vote for me, I can vote for you.” How refreshing after Shulman, Levin, Schumer, KEDDY, and all those horrid comments on the blogs and news sites.
This phrase is going to stay with me for a long, long time.
*****
Any Twitterers (Tweeters?) out there to thank these folks?
@RepubAbroadHK
@SolomonYue
@SenMikeLee
@aaro
I`d like to know if the suit is filed, does that put the goings on on hold? Because IT SHOULD. FATCA should be put on hold until the suit is settled.
Trica, Excellent point. Oh yes it would be so good if we could shower these folks with appreciation. Even something as simple as “Thank you, Senator Lee/RO for taking on FATCA on behalf of Americans abroad.”
No, nothing would go on hold. The FATCA train wreck is on the tracks and there’s no stopping it til it crashes.
@Victoria
Already done. ;-P
@I Was There
I will enjoy every moment of that crash!
@wondering
Thanks for bringing up the differences and benefits of both lawsuits. As much as both Bopp and Lee believe That USP’s should unite to form a lobbying group such as AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) has, there are many MANY people caught up in this who do not and will not identify themselves as USP’s. It would be ridiculous to expect these people to become involved in any political process in the US that involves them identifying themselves as USC’s. Although they weren’t planned to work in unison, this two-pronged approach may just work as it fights FATCA on two entirely different fronts, representing two entirely different groups of people. It’s brilliant really.
Thank God for Messieurs Lee and Bopp! And thank God for you too, Victoria, for reporting about this meeting so marvelously! It is wonderful to know that we do, indeed, have some friends in high places. Merci!
Hope to derail FATCA? Not so fast says former acting IRS Commissioner Steve Miller (no joker here in a recent speech):
“I can’t even say with conviction that I’m sure, looking strictly on a cost-benefit basis, that FATCA’s . . . benefits are going to outweigh the cost,” Miller told a lunch crowd at the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association FATCA Policy Symposium in Washington. “It’s not clear to me that when you look solely at the burden placed on financial institutions and others, versus the amount of revenue that may come into the treasury, that this is going to be a revenue-positive event for the United States.”
But predicts that “FATCA is here to stay”, after he took a well-paid position within the FATCA Compliance Complex.
http://rothcpa.com/2014/10/tax-roundup-10714-sweet-pursuit-of-tax-fairy-turns-sour-and-shut-up-and-get-used-to-fatca/
P.S. I can’t wait to hear the screeching of twisted metal and shattering glass of the great FATCA crash when it comes. And come it will, folks!!!!
@Bubblebustin,
Amazing that their reasoning can come to the conclusion that it won’t generate enough revenue to pay for it’s costs but it’s here to stay. Like when Obama was asked if raising the capital gains rate generated less revenue would he still do it. He said yes because it’s ‘fair’.
I think I will go and burn a few dollars to keep warm. That way I won’t have to use a fossil fuel so I will be green.
@Neill,
Lol. Embarrassment is probably keeping him from stating how bad this new great American boondoggle will really be, and this says nothing of the human costs in terms of good-will and loyalty, does it?
The book “Mistakes Were Made But Not By Me” http://www.amazon.ca/Mistakes-Were-Made-But-Not/dp/0156033909 explains how and why human beings cannot admit they have made a mistake once they buy into a stupid idea or make a stupid decision, and will, even in the face of evidence that proves they were very wrong and sometimes extremely wrong, continue to try to justify their stupid decisions and beliefs (face-saving). So there will most likely have to be a major FATCA train wreck to throw it in their faces, but even then there will be those who continue to “believe” in the bullshit they spouted.