#FATCA – what it is, why it needs to be repealed and what you can do https://t.co/ZNVqntUS2S – Republicans Overseas outlines their lawsuit
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) September 28, 2014
They also reference the Canadian lawsuit against the FATCA IGA launched by the Alliance For The Defense of Canadian Sovereignty
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So does this proposed FATCA same country exception form also come with a $10,000/account fine if not filed? Cuz it’s hard to imagine the IRS coming up with a form that didn’t include a grossly disproportionate fine.
No, Democrats Abroad don’t WANT to be part of change we can believe in! They remain with the ‘US is exceptional’ old-school mantra.
@US_Foreign_Person – my respect to your family. Being trapped behind political borders with no escape route is a fearful thing. To think that no private nest egg can be accumulated to give a family a new start is a horror. The US has been built by people who have fled terror and tyranny around the world … how ironic that it is the descendents of those people are now seeking to impose these new difficulties on those of us who remain.
FATCA and Palestinian banks:
http://www.abp.ps/files/server/English%20FATCA.pdf
It is only a matter of time until we see a FATCA IGA signed with the Islamic State.
@John Smith
When that happens… u might as well paint a big old US tattoo on people there so they will become easy picking for the terrorists or criminals…
re : “divorcing Uncle Sam TBC”
On Friday I typed in Republicans and Americans Abroad – It seems the Republicans are trying not only to get rid of FATCA but also relieve lower middle class people like myself from the tax burdens put upon us by a country we chose to leave and not live in Or rather by the Damnocrats.
This Obama regime has to be one of the stupidest in history. Did they not realize that proabably a majority of Americans Abroad ( even those who quite intentionally gave up their us citizenship years ago) would have been pro Damnocrat -Not now – not ever .
I pray the Republicans get rid of this horror.
And curses on the Damnocrats! May the party die.Few will mourn.
JK
@Mark Twain:
Somehow I hadn’t noticed that. I wanted fewer forms to fill out, not more! And it doesn’t reduce the banks’ work load any, either, so they still won’t want to deal with Americans.
Sigh.
@nervousinvestor – Looks like a great quote or the makings of one. Noted. How about this:
The US has been built by people who have fled terror and tyranny around the world … how ironic that it is the descendents of those people who are now seeking to impose financial terror and tyranny on those US citizens who happen to be tax resident in another country.
Do we have a contest? Complete this:
The US has been built by people who have fled terror and tyranny around the world …
@Jennifer Ellen Kolarik – Powerful statement.
@Mark Twain:
True, they are not antagonistic. And they have the most well-developed, concrete proposals of anyone.
@Polly:
Yes, they have said as much, and this line of reasoning makes no sense to me at all. “It looks hard, so we won’t even try.” WTF? Nothing worth accomplishing is easy. If it were easy to do, it wouldn’t even be an issue, now would it?
I think the “extra revenue” is an illusion. RBT would probably bring in more tax revenue than CBT — for example, non-resident aliens pay withholding taxes to the US on US-source dividends, while US citizens abroad generally don’t unless those dividends exceed the standard deduction and personal exemptions.
This kind of point needs to be hammered on more.
@JC
The US has been built by people who have fled terror and tyranny around the world … how ironic that it is the descendents of those people who are now seeking to impose financial terror, tyranny and indeed mortal danger on all persons residing outside the US Homeland including those US citizens who are paying taxes to other countries where they are resident.
@nervousinvestor. I like that better. Perhaps the “mortal danger” part is more about americans in certain countries rather than “all” americans. ?
I like to include the words ‘tax resident’ outside the US (or where they are tax resident), so not as just a US person out to cheat the system but people who are already being scrutinized and taxed by another country.
To my knowledge, ‘same country exemption’ does not (i) change the legal obligation of the US person in his country of residence to report his income, interest, etc etc etc and (ii) change the obligation to file FBAR. If the same country exemption is put in place it just means the banks don’t report – the IRS can still demand copies of the statements of a US Person. In addition, in today’s world, it is common to have cross border business and relationships, and to have personal accounts in more than one country (e.g. Singapore and Malaysia or France and Spain). Thus, as far as I understand it same country exemption is a band aid on a fast bleeding wound.
This should not be a Dem or Repub issue – but the Democrats Abroad have to support their stupid party’s decisions and the actions of this Administration that have brought this on all of us. At least the Republicans are saying the right things and I just hope that they can deliver. I would implore all US Persons who are Democrats and vote to vote Republican – I don’t support the Republican platform on many issues – but I am now a single issue voter. FATCA/CBT/FBAR.
@ US_Foreign_Person Yes! I agree with you. The “Same Country Exemption” has many problems, and if the U.S. decides “to change the rules… they got the info u gave them to use against u without them doing any work for it”. Their track record has been horrible.
I sincerely hope that the Supreme Court of Canada and that of the U.S. will decide in our favour! That is our best hope.
@Mark Twain, the mountains of IRS paperwork shown on the link you posed are impressive, but honestly, that paperwork is really just the tip of the iceberg. Hidden underneath the water are the excessive costs for professional accounting and advice, the exorbitant penalties should that advice fall short and one calculation not pass muster, the additional potential for identify theft and being scammed, the costs of compliance that the financial institutions have that make “US persons” undesirable clients, the strong incentives for non-American business partners to dump you, and the drain on your retirement savings plans, etc. that other people in your country can take advantage of tax-free (not to mention all the stress and anxiety you suffer) even if ultimately, NO TAXES are owed! It’s insane!
Same country exception DOES NOT address the issue regarding the FBAR requirement to report all accounts of which you have signing authority, but have no financial interest ! It will still be problematic for those who would want to be compliant, but who DONOT have the consent of a foreign employer to disclose that employer’s financials.
I am in the process of writing Jim Bopp a letter about why I believe that FBARS need to be changed. For those who haven’t relinquished, renounced and do not want to do either, without the consent of an employer you can’t get compliant.
@Ann #1 FBAR is included in the excessive fines claim.
I read the opinion, and it said it did not see a claim against seizure of 30% payments to FFI as this is similar to current witholdings regime(yet on dividends and interest, not on principal).
However, the Bopp legal team appears to have missed the part about 30% of seizure of the total value of your account if you fail to tick the US person box, don’t want to tick the box, the bank makes a mistake, the taxing authority of your country makes a mistake, the IRS makes a mistake.
http://rachelheller.org/?p=2598
“If any Democratic Senators or Representatives read this: you’ve actually managed to push a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat to the Republican camp on this issue. There are more than seven million expatriates around the world. We are also your constituents, and it’s time to listen to us!”
http://samuelclemmons.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/fatca-entrapped-10s-of-millions-of-us-persons/
FATCA entrapped tens of millions of US persons–immigrants and emigrants.
Jim Bopp is currently looking for plaintiffs.
@Mark Twain Where does it say Bopp looking for plaintiffs? That is a next step and I would like to see the announcement.
@JC –
The “mortal danger” part is about ALL people in certain countries rather than just Americans. ? Think Jews in Germany 1930s and 1940s or Ukraine 2014 or Jamaica 1976 or … or … anywhere that oppression raises its head and a minority (or indeed perhaps a majority in certain cases) are targeted by officialdom (in the open or undercover).
I do not like the term “tax resident” as that seems to trigger the loonies ….. I rather express that the folks are paying tax where they live.
Over to you … Tailor to your heart’s content. I may be wrong in my expression and you may be more attuned to the Homelander sensitivities.
A Same Country Exemption (SCE) rule may help the banks a little, but it will do absolutely nothing to help expats. It will only create more forms for them to file.
SCE is just another a gimmick created by Democrats to make it look like they are providing some relief for expats when in fact they are not.
The Democrats created FATCA and the Democrats just raised the Renunciation Fee to USD 2,350. How can they be trusted to do anything to help expats?
The Republican Party has made a resolution against FATCA and a resolution in support of Residence Based Taxation. It is also supporting the constitutional Lawsuit against FATCA and FBAR.
I am not trying to be partisan, I just calling a spade a spade.
It’s either on the facebook site of reps overseas , reps overseas hong kong, or aaro. Can’t remember.
We learned from the Canadian suit that plaintiffs are required. They’ve named a number of angles that they are approaching it, so there may be different plaintiffs per approach.
It also seems to be a non-straightforward process to get to US Supreme Court. They have to wind through the lower courts in some weird ways. This probably makes the plaintiff process more interesting.