UPDATE: September 23, 2014, from JC comment, additional to The_Animal’s original list:
The injustice is even worse than presented:
a) Canadian Welfare payments are considered taxable by the US in Canadian Government POV
b) Canadian Disability payments are considered taxable by the US in Canadian Government POV
c) Canadian Employment Insurance is considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POV
d) Canadian Worker’s Compensation is considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POV
e) Canadian Child Support Payments are considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POV
f) Canadian Child Tax Benefit payments are considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POVThe Canadian-US Tax Treaty is an abomination to embody the point of view of the Canadian government, that Canadian government assistance to families is taxable U.S. income. These areas above should have been explicitly exempted from U.S. tax in the tax treaty. Without the exemption, there is no clearer case of US government infringement on Canadian sovereignty.
I believe this subject is so very important. These are the families I, too, worry about the most — and, believe me, I worry about ALL *US Person* families. For these families, how will they ever have enough for the US citizenship renunciation fee, let alone the cost of compliance either to remain a US citizen abroad or to check out of the USA properly? How will many even understand all of the complexity? Who at a US Consulate OR what Canadian MP, who must take responsibility in subjecting persons to this by not standing up for these *US Person* Canadians, their rights waived by the signing of an intergovernmental agreement for FATCA with the US Treasury, will assist these low-income persons?
From The_Animal, put into this post to be further discussed in comments.
How FATCA will impact those of modest means (low income families).
Homelanders like to trumpet the fact that we have an “foreign earned income exemption” of 97,000. Unfortunately, the trump card is the “earned income” classification. Earned income means pay checks from an employer. So what does that do to most sources of income for those expats of low-income or on social assistance?
a) Welfare payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV.
b) Disability payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
c) Employment Insurance is not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
d) Worker’s Compensation is not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
e) Child Support Payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
f) Canada Child Tax Benefit payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s point of view.So all of these are taxed by the United States Internal Revenue Service in its overreaching grasp. Since most expats of modest means have a corresponding lack of education, they are furthermore hindered by not being able to understand the intricacies of the US tax system. Furthermore they do not have the monetary resources to get into compliance as their choice is between putting food on the table for their families or starving and coming into compliance.
Secondly all accounts that are not disclosed by means of an FBAR are subject to a financial penalty of $10,000 per account that is not considered wilful non-disclosure – the penalty for wilful is $100,000 or 50% of one’s account balance, whichever is greater. How is someone who makes $18,000 per annum supposed to come up with $10,000 for a non-wilful penalty let alone $100,000 (if the whim of the IRS is that the account-holder is a wilful non-disclosure)? For these families there is no financial safety net to dip into. For these people there is not a single way to come into compliance that would not wreak financial ruin on the family.
“There has to be a better way” is the constant refrain that I’ve been hearing from everyone. Unfortunately there is NO way for those of low-income to even think of coming into “compliance”.
***************
From a comment I made this morning, the portion pertaining to low income persons who have Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plans: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/comment-page-72/#comment-3097016
I want something that makes sense for my son — and all others like him. I have said all along that for me this is not about “my son” or my family. In fact, it is more about other such sons and daughters of other families who, unlike mine, do not have the “luxury” of a hard-earned and saved retirement fund to dip into to pay for US tax law and immigration / nationality lawyers and US accounting professionals. As well, if they have squeezed any funds out to save in a Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plan to provide for their family member with some kind of disability, they will have to pay US taxes on gains and matching contributions, courtesy of the Canadian taxpayer. In fact, for a person with a disability (other than a ‘mental incapacity’ for which he/she would not be able to understand the financial aspects of opening and maintaining such an account),
A RDSP can be opened without making contributions if you qualify for the government Bond. (http://rdsp.com/tutorial/)
with any gains for such a person and the government Bond itself being subject to US taxes. So, the only thing that makes sense is for the Canadian Government / Canada Revenue Agency to discriminate further for Canadians with disabilities and tell them that the RDSP is not meant for those who are *US Persons* — only for first-class Canadians who have some kind of disability.
I may be wrong, but I believe that not only would monthly provincial payments for persons with developmental (and other) disabilities, such as Assured Income for Severely Handicapped (AISH) in Alberta be taxable by the US, but also any Disability Tax Credit applied to Canadian federal and provincial taxes would taxable by the US. Any benefit allowed by Canada to make the lives of disabled persons more bearable could be affected as those things are not addressed in the US / Canada Tax Treaty and certainly are not, as The_Animal points out, “Earned Income” that would be addressed by the Foreign Earned Income Exemption (FEIE). Would perhaps even my son’s $115 honorarium in The Venturers Society (http://venturers.edublogs.org/) be US taxable? Is the only way to receive any benefits for such Canadian (or other country) persons who are also so-called *US Persons* to be by having to move to the USA, away from their family, their friends, their country of birth and growing up? What would there be for them in the US other than a US disability benefit that they can not now get in Canada without tribute to the US? Remember the information I got from the Washington, DC immigration/nationality lawyer I hired regarding a way to “free” my son of US citizenship:
DOS persons have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, US citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. Ms. Tapanila could sue but persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence.
I will add to this post as I have time, but that is all I have for now.
Frankly, I don’t like tax cheats either nor do I like welfare cheaters – they seriously piss me off, but I’ll grant genuine disability recipients a boon and give them the benefit of the doubt. That’s what being sympathetic to their situation is about. I don’t tar them with the same brush, because – there but for the sake of God…and my stubborn-ness at being self-sufficient…GO I.
“Complaining you disability is taxed at the same time talking about having to file 8938! Saying you have a hard time putting food on the table while complaining about having to file FBAR.”
Here’s why I jumped to that conclusion. What little amount of money that I can save goes towards the business. What money is made is from my wife’s meager amount of income that she makes. And THAT is all that we live off of. WE don’t try to spoon off the federal handout that Canada provides to its welfare and disability (even though diagnosed, I’d have a legitimate claim to disability – I leave that for those who actually have need of it – those with physical and mental handicaps). I was raised by my father to be self-sufficient – live within my means – which means the only thing that we have in terms of debt is a car loan which is paid each and every month without fail.
My wife has never voted in the States as soon as she crossed the border 14 years ago. The only thing she wants to do is get her Canadian citizenship because she intends to vote here on issues that directly affect her as a Canadian. My wife pays Canadian taxes and THAT’S ALL she should have to pay. She should not have to pay for taxation without representation.
If I had the income that you apparently do, I’d still be ticked off at the vast amounts of money being spent to have to COMPLY with US tax law that has ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE in Canada. It’s because Harper sold Canadians out.
The reason I’m pissed is because we have to spend vast amounts of tax compliance dollars just to appease ODUMBASS and his IRS thugs. Yeah. I HATE American homelanders and wish them ill at every turn and I hate the welfare cheats who make the system what it is today.
Now that we understand each other…
…and frankly I hate the “welfare cheats” who have the entitlement attitude and think they have a right to my wife’s meager income which should rightfully go to our children.
Yeah, 1 in 3 Americans are on welfare. And I don’t think all of them are legitimate, but Obama is making them legitimate because he has a beef with “rich people” or so he thinks all Americans who live abroad are. Yeah, we’re just floatin’ in cash ~dripping sarcasm~.
Most people who live abroad are of hard working middle-class and modest means just eking out a living day to day, paycheck to paycheck. And that’s who is going to be hurt the most from this FATCA dragnet. Not just the ones who are rich or have “vast amounts of money”.
I don’t feel that my wife should have to pay for the welfare cheats in the US system or pay for Obamacare which she doesn’t use or for many of the “invisible fake benefits” that come with the ball and chain of US citizenship. If one is living in the States, then tough luck. You’re on the hook. If you’re an expat, this is taxation without representation and should be fought tooth and nail.
It seems to me that Neill is a troll or an agent provocateur. We shouldn’t have to read his poison.
@The_Animal,
> If you’re an expat, this is taxation without representation and should be fought tooth and nail.
That’s what I have. I can’t vote in the US but I have all the obligations of a citizen. They can kick me out at any time and take a bunch of my stuff.
@Duke of Devon,
What poisonous about calling you guys out on the IRS will take my welfare? What’s wrong with pointing out that you’re unlikely to need to file FinCen 114 and 8938 if you’re on welfare? What’s wrong with saying that the IRS isn’t interest in these people because they don’t have anything to take?
Yes I know. People without much money are the salt of the earth. Rich people are evil because how else would they have gotten all that money? The stats are though that massive numbers of the ‘salt of the earth’ people have their hands out in the US. The rich on the other hand even when people are complaining about what low tax rates they pay are actually chipping in the bulk of the money.
” I can’t vote in the US but I have all the obligations of a citizen.” – You reside in the States – thus you use American infrastructure; I wouldn’t expect you to have to pay for the infrastructure back in Canada that you don’t use. And Canada’s RBT makes it that you don’t get taxed.
Why I’m pissed off is that those in the United States who are of the mass 1 out of 3 welfare recipients think they’re entitled to my wife’s income that she earns in Canada and pays taxes for in Canada. If my wife’s Student Loan money that comes in to pay for her tuition was over $10,000 which it could possibly be given the four year degree program she’s taking, she will have to file FinCEN 114 and 8938 should that amount pop over $10,000 and that money is something that can ill-afford to be taxed.
I hate tax cheats too!!
Like Starbucks in the UK paying no UK tax.
Like Asda (Wal Mart) in the UK paying no UK tax
Like Kellogs in the UK paying no UK tax.
Like Boots (sucked up by Walgreens) in the UK that will be paying no UK tax.
Like Cadbury (sucked up by Kraft than spat out) in the UK paying no UK tax.
I am sick and tired of “tax reversions” of pounds and pence being drained out of the HM Treasury to benefit the US Treasury.
@USCitizenAbroad, a DIY Relinquishment… LOL LOL
Thats like when I coined “Undocumented Relinquisher.”
But the sentiment you cite is correct, a CLN is not required to lose ones US Citizenship. So people are comitting a relinquishing act or already done so and they are simply documenting the file.
If you then need to travel to the USA you need a defacto “visa” which is a CLN. So then you decide if that trip to the USA is worth the aggrevation of a CLN.
ALL Canadians are getting screwed. America is taking canadian taxes! It is usurping funds from the canadian treasury as it is the treasuries and tax monies of all other countries. There is this huge sucking noise. America is in dire debt and the whole world is going to pay for it.
@Neill, lets use the UK as an example you can relate to.
With the great run up in stocks, its not unthinkable for a middle aged person to have stakeholder pension plans that have been funded with small amounts over the last thirty years. You know as well as I do, that a little bit put away over thirty years could easily be £100,000 and in a lot of different accounts.
That same middle aged person with those stakeholder pension plans TODAY, could very well be receiving work credit, child credit and child benefits all lawfully under UK law. They might even own outrigt a small flat in the Midlands.
US Law, not what “policy might be” but US Law specifies that person can be sent to financial Armageddon.
ANY direction, any path, is a throw of the dice.
How does one justify taking benefits received from HM Treasury to pay US tax, US cross border specialists and then a £1,600 fee to get a CLN?
@Neil, here are some actual numbers.
Ten (10) old personal stakeholder pension plans all invested in funds and now worth £100,000 total. Each stakeholder pension has at least three funds so total is almost 50 funds.
Small flat in the Midlands, no mortgage inherited from parents.
Current account £1,000
Three children, non-US and no SSN.
Employment income £8,000 (self employed paid by cheque, no expenses, pays NI)
remember once you hit middle age anywhere, it largely no longer matters that you have a degree. Person once had a pretty good income but then the recession and age…..
Work Credit £3,000
Child Credit £6,000
Child care credit £4,000
Child benefit £2,000
Whats the maximum penalty under LAW not necessarily policy this person faces?
Whats the cost of a cross border specialist?
How does she afford the consulate fee of £1,600 to renounce?
Remember the idea of “go get a better job” while desirous will not impact income because there will be a claw back on work/child credit. Though this individual in question would like more work for self satisfaction!!
Streamlined is a start except the cross border specialist fees will eat them alive!!!
Individual born in the US to UK parents, left the US as an infant on a UK Passport and has never held a US passport and has never visited the US.
This individuals life is fine as is as a UK Citizen living in England!!!!
Life fell apart when she went to transfer her current account to get a £100 transfer bonus and was asked “Place of birth.” UK drivers license has USA for place of birth.
@Neill, I disagree with you strongly. The IRS doesn’t care if you have any money and I know people who are low income threatened with FBAR penalties. The IRS isn’t going to ask your circumstances or be understanding of such at all. The penalties apply to ALL people.
Some of your other remarks, well none of us in Canada are using U.S. services. My family hasnt’ taken a dime in welfare or used ANY other social service other than health care which we pay into here in Canada.
You keep saying that the poor, disabled etc. don’t need to worry about any of this since they are just users of the system and slackers which is highly offensive to some people here who have a disabled relative or who aren’t maybe as fortunate as some. I’ve met a lot of these people and I don’t always agree with everything, every single person says but, over the years of going through this I’ve learned the vast majority here are self supporting, honest, diligent people and some are quite dear to me though I don’t live near them given ALL we have supported each other through.
I don’t frankly care about what you percieve as a welfare state inside the U.S. at all. The U.S. is horrible on such matters in general. Reform is needed there in more ways than one. I really only care about the impacts FATCA is having here, on expat families. I don’t much think that FATCA was implemented to prop up social programs in the U.S. in general, more likely any monies will go to the big war machine they have become. Wherever it goes it doesn’t matter because it should NOT come out of the pockets of those who do not live there or use services there and especially not from those who are not even American like our spouses and children!
Again, your point that IRS doesn’t care about you if you have no money? That is not true. They will impose and collect from anyone they can and have done so. They’re not going to ask your annual income or even if you have to sell your home to pay the penalty to them. If FATCA were only about “big fish” there were other ways this could have been done. It’s not about just “big fish” that’s a lie they are selling in their press.
Neil,
Please try to stay on topic. This is not a blog about ‘welfare cheats’.
Calgary: Thanks for making a separate post out of Animal’s important comment. This succinctly stated listing of the types of accounts that are taxable by the U.S. should shock all Canadians into getting behind our lawsuit. It illustrates the simple, out-and-out theft of Canadian financial resources that CBT and its enforcer FATCA are perpetrating.
Polly: “Canada should have told congress “OK- we`ll do FATCA if you do RBT.” All countries should have said this to America.” Exactly! Well said! I urged this very approach in many of my letters to Canadian politicians over the past few years. CBT is the crux of the problem. FATCA is of relatively little concern if uncoupled from CBT and it might actually be effective in finding the folks they keep telling us they’re actually looking for!
I’ll try one last time on this.
If the IRS goes after people with very little money then it will look extremely bad. They won’t get anything and their costs will exceed their recoveries. Sure they could fine somebody $10k but if they don’t have any money they won’t get it.
The banks for the most part are only going to report certain accounts and with big balances ($50k, no pensions etc).
There are huge numbers of people stateside who don’t file. The IRS leaves them alone unless they see significant money there. Why audit somebody when you know it will cost thousands and your recoveries are in the hundreds?
I expect the IRS to be smart here. They will pick off rich and well off people by looking at account balances. They can screw these people because nobody cares about them. The further down the list (ordered by wealth) they go the more trouble they bring themselves from the press and pushback from other governments.
Neill, don’t be so sure about banks reporting only large accounts. I’m in the process of cashing in a small insurance investment and have just received the form to complete for the insurance company. This is a pre-existing acccount that is exempt under the IGA but the form could not be clearer as to the insurer’s intention to report it if there are any US indicia. It asks for country of birth, nationality, whether you are a citizen or tax resident of the US and tax residence. Had I not already renounced, the data would have been reported to the IRS. I have the impression there are a lot of accidental Americans in my country who may not even know about FATCA yet and are in for the shock of their lives one of these days.
So, I personally don’t care about the large acct small acct thing. If the filing rules are set up so that they are penalizing things like disability, welfare, etc, the argument that “your acct is small so they won’t come after you” strikes me as ridiculous. If the rules are bad, then the rules are bad.
I personally know someone who is in the process of a fight with the IRS. It is costing him THOUSANDS in legal fees. The judgement from the IRS would bankrupt him. This happened because he tried to come into compliance, after realizing that he was supposed to have been filing for years.
I’ve had letters from the IRS. When this happens, it’s usually due to a minor mistake, but it is an automated system. If they ever found that I actually owed money I doubt they’d care if it was $100, they’d want it, and follow up with interest & penalties if I didn’t pay up.
Well ok. If you guys are right then the whole thing will explode in a terrible mess and the IRS will lose big time. I think that would be stupid of them. They can just milk the people who nobody cares about.
Neill, do you believe the law is the law is the law as Mr. Mopsick has schooled all of us *US Persons* Abroad? Do you believe that the laws should apply to all? Do you believe that the US has turned a blind eye toward *some* who seemed to be, because of ignorance of the law, not following the US law for decades? Do you believe that every person that has crossed the US border with a Canadian passport that says they were born in the US should have consequences because the *US* law is that every person who is a US citizen must cross their border and then back into their own country with a US passport? Do you believe that the law is the law is the law or do you believe that the US government is allowed to turn a blind eye where it suits them? I, myself, would like the law to justly affect ALL *US Persons* who live and work abroad. I would like my country, Canada, to stand up to having extra-territorial law come into Canada to override Canadian law and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I, personally, do not want anyone to have to look over their shoulder for the rest of their lives, wondering when this unjust law will catch up with their family.
Your reasoning seems the same as the reasoning of others. I found this email that I sent quite awhile back.
I’m sorry that some believe persons like this — and their parents, their guardians, their trustees — are scamming. I believe what my son and others like him have is an opportunity to do the very best they can so they can feel good about their contributions. I believe in giving them opportunity rather than believing they are “throw-aways”.
There is a lot that Finance Minister James Flaherty said at the beginning about FATCA that I believe in. There is a lot that Finance Minister James Flaherty said just before his death that stunned me as he seemed to no longer stand up for *US Persons* in Canada — we were now called *US citizens who happen to reside in Canada*. The thing I’ll always thank him for is his part in the inception of the Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plan. It is very unfortunate that not ALL Canadians who may have a disability of whatever cause can any longer benefit from that Plan.
The cost of compliance is bankruptcy…so there’s one reason not to comply. BUT the main reason not to comply is this: They are not our laws, so they don’t apply to us.
I have relinquished my US citizenship in my own territory (my own home) by just not agreeing that I am a ‘US person’ for any purpose, tax or otherwise….I don’t need no stinkin’ badge!
@Neill – To take an extreme example, dual US / UK citizen who has resided in the UK for many years hits the Lottery for £50,000,000 ($83,000,000).
In the UK lottery winnings are tax free and in the US they’re taxable. Why on earth should the US benefit from this windfall on the basis of citizenship?
Certainly it would be better for the UK and the EU to have this person spend his money in our economy?
Why does the US feel entitled to $33,000,000 in tax (using HR Block website) other than laying claim to that person by citizenship?
If that ever happened to me, after making the ticket safe, I would find out the maximum number of days I have before it’s expired and go to any US embassy in the world and renounce pronto if I could.
The USG is trying to skim ordinary people while leaving it open to the opportunity to rape someone who makes it big.
This argument needs to be settled in the courts about which citizenship takes precedence. US citizenship should not have equal status to any resident citizenship in his home country.
I would say this is the american economy- everybody is living off of debt. People were issued credit cards who had no money because these companies knew they could make so much money in late fee interest rates. So teenagers were paying off their ever increasing debts into their 30s and 40s. Its a mentality. So I don`t see any problem with going after somebody who can’t pay the bill for now. They have created a slave who will be forever indebted to them. Thats how the US economy has been functioning for quite a while now.
Re the high cost of Freedom from US servitude imposed extraterritorially:
Consider that at minimum wage (Ontario = $11. per hour CDN – and even less in some other provinces ) , a Canadian citizen attempting to renounce unwanted USP status now must wait until at least April 2015 for an appointment at the Toronto consulate, AND spend the equivalent of more than 6 WEEKS worth of wages – or more than a 12th of their annual wage in order to earn the renunciation fee of 2350. USD.
And, that is at one Canadian provincial minimum wage.
Consider how much a proportion of one’s wages the 2350. represents of a US minimum wage if the State Dept. had considered proportionality by US standards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States at all in setting that fee? Or as applied to the minimum wage in all the other countries around the globe where a USP might need to renouncehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country ?
Isn’t it a shocking human rights violation if a person must work to pay out their indentured servitude to the US at that rate? And that does not include the stiff costs of tax filing and financial reporting if they choose to certify 5 years compliance plus 6 yrs FBAR/Form 114.
See chart of storefront chain base fees in Canada, for 2014, as cached here online:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ODkyO2uNlgEJ:www.askbernice.com/uploads/2014_US_Pricing_-_July.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a
Using the chart, calculate what a person – even without enough savings to meet the low 10,000. highest-balance-on-any-one-day-intheyear FBAR/Form 114 threshold might have in compliance filing costs – even if their actual income is too low to generate any US taxes assessed – because if they have ANY amount in registered savings accounts – no matter how small they are (RRSP, RRIF – require form 8891, and TFSA, RESP, RDSPs, PRPPs require 3520/A, and so do estates – no matter how insignificant – as USdeemed ‘taxable foreign trusts’) – even if they are minimum wage earners – or work contracts or part-time for example. Since the FBAR is an aggregate threshold amount that includes NON-personal accounts belonging to non-US employers, joint acct holders, children, parents, spouses, voluntary organizations (if a Treasurer or Board member signatory), estates/executor/beneficiary, POA, (where a co/signatory power exists – even if contingent) etc. the aggregated reporting threshold is very easy to meet – even if the assets are NOT personal ones.
And if income is in the form of the grants or benefits that @Animal has pointed out are not eligible as ‘earned income’ – no FEIE. Such as an Education grant. Or unemployment, or maternity, or disability grant/benefit. Or a scholarship, or even a loan/debt (reportable for FBAR purposes once it hits the account as an asset). And there are so many other anomalies; ex. NON-US children cannot be deducted for the Child Tax credit. Only the USP children/dependents of USPs can be deducted.
And what if multiple family members need to renounce in order for a family to be free?
There is no such thing as a ‘progressive’ schedule of renunciation fees. And one can have very little, but spend a significant portion of one’s assets in compliance costs.
—————————
@Neill,
Those with lesser assets and income are not excused from potential penalties and lifelong UStaxable person status. We may have an annual income that doesn’t even meet the US filing threshold. Those with disabilities may be unable to earn a wage income, or earn only a very very small one, but the IRS does not excuse them from filing and reporting. And as we know, one can have ZERO income, but still have to file an 8891, or 3520/a, FBAR/Form114, and other reporting forms that come with draconian penalties for the mere existence of the accounts (which can be layered), even if the accounts earn no taxable income, earn very little taxable income, the taxpayer owes no US taxes and none can be assessed, etc.
The IRS dogs people for assessed sums that they can not even explain – in the face of returns that plainly show an income covered by the allowable personal deduction threshold – and thus no US tax could be assessed – even without foreign tax credits, etc. They send increasingly threatening intent to levy and liens notices, and it can take many months to get them to stop – even if the IRS admits that there is no US tax assessable. This has been chronicled by the Taxpayer Advocate.
On the topic of those with disabilities that render them deemed legally incapable: even for the purposes of applying a Power of Attorney for finances or for personal care in Ontario, it is recognized that a person (such as one with mild to moderate dementia, head injury, autism, Down’s, etc.) may be deemed capable to make some decisions, and understand some information, but be deemed incapable for other decisions, purposes, functions and activities. There are a wide range of chronic psychological, neurological and intellectual/developmental conditions that can render a person legally incompetent. Therefore, despite the laws of Canada or a province, wherein someone has been deemed legally incompetent to handle their financial affairs, they may still be able to perform some routine life activities.
And remember, according to the online instructions of FINCEN for the online FBAR/Form 114, even CHILDREN are expected to file their own FBAR – even if they have ZERO income. And, they could have no income, but have $1-100. in a TFSA or RESP and still have to file form 3520/A. There is no minimum threshold.
Children and others deemed legally incapable of renouncing are not excused from IRS tax obligations, or from confiscatory and draconian penalty structures.
Despite the new new Streamlined SDOP and SFOP programs, the IRS is preventing those who came forward under the OVD programs – and are stuck there, from benefiting from the new provisions – even if they fit the categories of cases that they acknowledge they created the new SDOP and SFOP for. There is no minimum threshold wherein they released all those under a certain asset and income amount. The IRS will take whatever it can get. Many of those who paid the higher proportion of their accts and assets were those who were unrepresented – and with lower balances http://federaltaxcrimes.blogspot.ca/2014/01/taxpayer-advocate-report-on-ovdips.html http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/intfinlaw/2014/07/is-a-2220-fbar-penalty-for-17-dollar-tax-understatement-good-compliance-policy.html
Anatole France said:
” La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain.
In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
Le Lys Rouge [The Red Lily] (1894), ch. 7
Variant: How noble the law, in its majestic equality, that both the rich and poor are equally prohibited from peeing in the streets, sleeping under bridges, and stealing bread!”
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anatole_France
———-
Unwarranted and unsupported generalizations about those on social assistance, who they are, and why they are receiving assistance are uninformed and an offensive form of scapegoating.
Get run over by a bus, be born with a chronic disability, contract a life altering disease, be injured in a work or other accident, be the victim of a violent crime, inherit a genetically transmitted and incurable condition, be born into horrific life circumstances, lose your job as a breadwinner, have no health insurance in the US – or insufficient or uncovered conditions in Canada or elsewhere, have older or ill dependents, etc. Then lets talk about the claims that those receiving assistance deserve the opprobrium being heaped on them.
How about a little more application of the Golden Rule here:?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
and,
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
—Matthew 7:1-5 KJV (Matthew 7:1-5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_and_the_Beam
“I have relinquished my US citizenship in my own territory (my own home) by just not agreeing that I am a ‘US person’ for any purpose, tax or otherwise….I don’t need no stinkin’ badge!” – Way to go, Gwen! 😀 That’s the spirit.
Me: I want to make this shirt and wear it at the Peace Arch border crossing (standing on the Canadian side, mind you) Wouldn’t want to be arrested for contemptuous words against a standing US senator.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ivLDARsFo3I/VCGkGgGf8-I/AAAAAAAACb0/ExdsYRcs3yM/w876-h856-no/Schumer_shirt.jpg
@meridian
Some of us for various reasons have no choice but to become US tax compliant. Believe me, I have paid heavily for the ‘privilege’.
FATCA and CBT is horrible, but if I were to allow myself to use it for everything that’s wrong with my life I would lose my mind. They’ve gotten their tribute, they won’t get my soul.
@Neill
If you somehow end up on the IRS’s radar it will be up to you to prove to the IRS that you don’t owe them taxes and penalties, not the other way around.
@Don
I’ve thought about the lottery scenario, and I believe that the IRS would view the day that you won the lottery as the day that you received the funds.