UPDATE: September 23, 2014, from JC comment, additional to The_Animal’s original list:
The injustice is even worse than presented:
a) Canadian Welfare payments are considered taxable by the US in Canadian Government POV
b) Canadian Disability payments are considered taxable by the US in Canadian Government POV
c) Canadian Employment Insurance is considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POV
d) Canadian Worker’s Compensation is considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POV
e) Canadian Child Support Payments are considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POV
f) Canadian Child Tax Benefit payments are considered taxable by US in Canadian Government POVThe Canadian-US Tax Treaty is an abomination to embody the point of view of the Canadian government, that Canadian government assistance to families is taxable U.S. income. These areas above should have been explicitly exempted from U.S. tax in the tax treaty. Without the exemption, there is no clearer case of US government infringement on Canadian sovereignty.
I believe this subject is so very important. These are the families I, too, worry about the most — and, believe me, I worry about ALL *US Person* families. For these families, how will they ever have enough for the US citizenship renunciation fee, let alone the cost of compliance either to remain a US citizen abroad or to check out of the USA properly? How will many even understand all of the complexity? Who at a US Consulate OR what Canadian MP, who must take responsibility in subjecting persons to this by not standing up for these *US Person* Canadians, their rights waived by the signing of an intergovernmental agreement for FATCA with the US Treasury, will assist these low-income persons?
From The_Animal, put into this post to be further discussed in comments.
How FATCA will impact those of modest means (low income families).
Homelanders like to trumpet the fact that we have an “foreign earned income exemption” of 97,000. Unfortunately, the trump card is the “earned income” classification. Earned income means pay checks from an employer. So what does that do to most sources of income for those expats of low-income or on social assistance?
a) Welfare payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV.
b) Disability payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
c) Employment Insurance is not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
d) Worker’s Compensation is not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
e) Child Support Payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s POV
f) Canada Child Tax Benefit payments are not considered “earned income” in IRS’s point of view.So all of these are taxed by the United States Internal Revenue Service in its overreaching grasp. Since most expats of modest means have a corresponding lack of education, they are furthermore hindered by not being able to understand the intricacies of the US tax system. Furthermore they do not have the monetary resources to get into compliance as their choice is between putting food on the table for their families or starving and coming into compliance.
Secondly all accounts that are not disclosed by means of an FBAR are subject to a financial penalty of $10,000 per account that is not considered wilful non-disclosure – the penalty for wilful is $100,000 or 50% of one’s account balance, whichever is greater. How is someone who makes $18,000 per annum supposed to come up with $10,000 for a non-wilful penalty let alone $100,000 (if the whim of the IRS is that the account-holder is a wilful non-disclosure)? For these families there is no financial safety net to dip into. For these people there is not a single way to come into compliance that would not wreak financial ruin on the family.
“There has to be a better way” is the constant refrain that I’ve been hearing from everyone. Unfortunately there is NO way for those of low-income to even think of coming into “compliance”.
***************
From a comment I made this morning, the portion pertaining to low income persons who have Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plans: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/comment-page-72/#comment-3097016
I want something that makes sense for my son — and all others like him. I have said all along that for me this is not about “my son” or my family. In fact, it is more about other such sons and daughters of other families who, unlike mine, do not have the “luxury” of a hard-earned and saved retirement fund to dip into to pay for US tax law and immigration / nationality lawyers and US accounting professionals. As well, if they have squeezed any funds out to save in a Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plan to provide for their family member with some kind of disability, they will have to pay US taxes on gains and matching contributions, courtesy of the Canadian taxpayer. In fact, for a person with a disability (other than a ‘mental incapacity’ for which he/she would not be able to understand the financial aspects of opening and maintaining such an account),
A RDSP can be opened without making contributions if you qualify for the government Bond. (http://rdsp.com/tutorial/)
with any gains for such a person and the government Bond itself being subject to US taxes. So, the only thing that makes sense is for the Canadian Government / Canada Revenue Agency to discriminate further for Canadians with disabilities and tell them that the RDSP is not meant for those who are *US Persons* — only for first-class Canadians who have some kind of disability.
I may be wrong, but I believe that not only would monthly provincial payments for persons with developmental (and other) disabilities, such as Assured Income for Severely Handicapped (AISH) in Alberta be taxable by the US, but also any Disability Tax Credit applied to Canadian federal and provincial taxes would taxable by the US. Any benefit allowed by Canada to make the lives of disabled persons more bearable could be affected as those things are not addressed in the US / Canada Tax Treaty and certainly are not, as The_Animal points out, “Earned Income” that would be addressed by the Foreign Earned Income Exemption (FEIE). Would perhaps even my son’s $115 honorarium in The Venturers Society (http://venturers.edublogs.org/) be US taxable? Is the only way to receive any benefits for such Canadian (or other country) persons who are also so-called *US Persons* to be by having to move to the USA, away from their family, their friends, their country of birth and growing up? What would there be for them in the US other than a US disability benefit that they can not now get in Canada without tribute to the US? Remember the information I got from the Washington, DC immigration/nationality lawyer I hired regarding a way to “free” my son of US citizenship:
DOS persons have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, US citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. Ms. Tapanila could sue but persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence.
I will add to this post as I have time, but that is all I have for now.
This is an important topic and important post. There are two main aspects of importance:
1. What is explicitly said:
It is true that none of things mentioned are “earned income” for the purposes of the earned income exclusion. To the extent that they are treated as taxable income by the U.S., one can only offset the taxes owing with taxes paid in Canada – if taxes are payable on these items.
But, none of this is a surprise. Remember the fundamental principle.
Americans abroad are treated the same way as “homelanders”. If one leaves the Homeland, then one must live as though one is still a homelander. This means that you avoid anything that is NOT U.S. – AKA Foreign.
Look at it this way:
Homelanders are NOT eligible for Canadian unemployment insurance! So, why the ___ should an American abroad? When outside the Homeland you are expected to live like a Homelander. It doesn’t matter if you live in Canada. Once an American only an American. It is “UnAmerican” to NOT live as a “homelander” when outside the homeland.
Put it another way:
When a homelander is in Rome, do as a Homelander …
Obviously the rules are ridiculously unfair. And you might be able to get over the unfairness, if (which brings me to point two):
2. You could understand the rules to begin with – which you can’t -there is no way to understand the rules:
An American abroad has no assurance of what the U.S. tax status of anything is unless:
First, he can find a cross border tax specialist (in some countries very unlikely).
Second, he has the money to hire a cross border tax specialist (unlikely).
Third, the cross border tax specialist is competent (unlikely – try to get two of them to agree).
Let’s put the probability of each of these three events independently as fifty fifty. But remember that you are talking about the probability of three successive independent events.
The mathematical odds of getting a positive outcome to each of these three events is:
1/2 times 1/2 times 1/2 = 1/8 = 12.5%.
Think of it, even if an American abroad attempts tax compliance the chances are only 1/8 (12.5%) of success. But, the probability of paying “big bucks” (with little chance of success) is 100%.
Obviously, the chances of U.S. tax compliance are slim. So, why waste your money anyway?
It’s no wonder that:
Some Americans abroad are relinquishing by going into hiding (if the USG won’t allow you to relinquish then you do a “do it yourself”
relinquishment. You don’t need permission to NOT be a slave); and
Some Americans abroad are relinquishing by telling the USG.
Now, “|two somes” (could) but does not necessarily make an “all”. So, one must ask the question:
Are there Americans abroad who are NOT relinquishing? Maybe, but that just means that they don’t understand the rules and lack of freedoms which are imposed on them because of where they were born.
Therefore, the pure logic implies that:
There are very few Americans abroad who are not relinquishing one way or the other.
We were taught about this by a Canadian (those Canadians are so smart) named William Shatner in the original Star Trek series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DeIExLcURQ&feature=youtu.be”
Fizzbin-Boldly go where new tax code has gone before!
The message is simple:
Figure out which way you are relinquishing and get on with it!
Or:
Americans abroad of the world unite. All you have to lose are your chains.
It is hugely depressing. I am still not done filing my 6yrs and 8854 and am overdo at this point with my US tax accountant freaking out at me to get them info asap. This accountant wants the usual $250 per year, plus I have other forms and expenses they need to do. They probably don’t realise that I haven’t gotten them the info as I have no money. Got 3 credit cards maxed out already, so am going to have to fire up another card to get this tax crap done. Maybe some file it themselves to cut costs but this is all beyond over my head. Anyway.. I will be glad when it’s done. It is a shame it has driven me further into debt. This is what my kiwi family gets for having an American attached to them. depressing.
Somebody on welfare could just ignore all the IRS stuff. They aren’t coming for you because you don’t have anything to take.
It’s hard to have any sympathy for welfare recipients when the home country takes loads of your money to keep them. Obviously some people could never be expected to look after themselves but the vast majority I think can. Disability in the US is the new scam after unemployment insurance runs out.
These people should get a payday loan to fly back to the US or renounce. They probably voted for Obama anyway.
The reason we have FATCA is to pay for all this free stuff.
Neill,
I am not / we’re not talking about only those on welfare and you can no more paint everyone on “welfare” with the same brush than you can paint every *US Person Abroad* as a tax-evading traitor. I am disappointed in your reaction to those on disability. That is the knee-jerk reaction I got from so many commenters to media stories I was interviewed for.
I know I shouldn’t take any of this personally, so I’ll try not to. I don’t know what you think of the comment I made yesterday: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/comment-page-72/#comment-3087735.
Quite frankly, I resent every penny I’ve paid in taxes to the US and to US tax lawyers, US immigration/nationality lawyers and US accounting professionals to remove myself from the rolls of the US IRS when I was told that I would lose my US citizenship becoming a Canadian citizen in 1975. I also resent that a person with a developmental disability cannot renounce a never-registered for US citizenship because of ‘mental incapacity’ and that a parent, a guardian or a trustee does not have the right to do so, even with a court order.
I just don`t get why the Canadian government agreed to this. Its their welfare money they are handing out to their citizens to help them survive. America is taking from Canadian welfare! Its just effing unbelievable.
Canada should have told congress “OK- we`ll do FATCA if you do RBT.” All countries should have said this to America. America is in dire debt- and everybody else is supposed to pay their bills.
FATCA is anti Pensioner. You may have no tax in your country such as the U.K., but wait the US wants to tax your pension as it is “unqualified.”
FATCA is anti Family: http://tiny.cc/ANTIFAMILY
@Polly, Canadian politicians didn’t talk directly to congressional politicians, let alone POTUS (Obama). Canada was just told “Congress has spoken” and came under pressure from the banks who were told to comply or else start forking out steep penalties. So our current governing politicians agreed to it, on the faulty presumption that the U.S. had the right to set a law for “their” people. The government simply said that the CRA will not collect penalties for Canadian (dual) citizens, but simply hand over the required data. Bottom line: they are simply trying to placate the U.S. and keep the banks going.
The problem, though, is that they failed to recognize that the U.S. has no right to set law for people who are permanent residents or citizens, living in Canada and not living in the U.S. The whole thing is corrupt.
The U.S. set it up so that the banks would put the pressure on, tied to the U.S. currency. They created a big racket, horribly corrupt and grossly unfair to everyone who permanently resides outside the U.S. It’s also “taxation without representation” which is also truly un-American and goes against everything the founding fathers fought for. The U.S. tries to sell their plan by making an exemption for $97,000 earned income, but they exempt virtually nothing else. They expect US persons abroad to deal with their Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. They force people to file electronically and risk I.D. theft. Their forms are so complex and the penalties so outrageous, they force people to pay for professional help–whatever they can find. They entrap mentally challenged people like Carol’s son to keep filing every year. Yet they make it cost thousands of dollars for anyone who is able to try to renounce.
I don’t think they deserve one penny from anyone abroad that is taxed in their place of residence/livelihood. The U.S. should use RBT the same as everyone else.
@calgary411,
The swelling of SSDI after unemployment insurance dried up is a clear sign that many are faking it in the US. If you’re born with a problem or have an accident and can never be expected to work again it’s one thing. If your depressed (yes that’s one think you can get out of work with in the US) or your back hurts then get to work.
Notice how it’s multi-tier. If my back hurts and I tried to get SSDI they would laugh at me. You’re educated they would say. Lost my leg? No problem you’re educated. I would have to be pretty fucked up to get it.
Dropped out of school because you couldn’t be bothered? Then have some free stuff. Oh and BTW the rich should pay more.
At tax time I write a check to the IRS. Along with withholding it’s big. Government always wants more. They always want a new tax. Never do they try and make do with the vast amount of money they get already.
People like me are sick of it. We are sick that all the takers voted in Obama to take a bunch more of our stuff.
Based on what you have said about your child that would seem to be a reasonable target for government help. I don’t think the IRS is entitled to a penny of that. The scale of SSDI usage though suggest it’s an area of massive fraud (hello some states purposely moved people from unemployment to it).
If only it were so black and white, Neill. I understand where you’re coming from as whatever benefits are not sustainable, especially in the US.
Persons who have fallen through the cracks of the education system, with even just the result of those financially illiterate; persons in the welfare trap; single parents with no support for children they have to raise; high unemployment and the unemployable; for many that are employable, part-time jobs with no benefits; veterans of never-ending wars short-changed with their ‘disabilities’ (some of them very invisible to others, including various diagnoses of depression); etc., etc.
There are reasons for sayings like: There but for the grace of God go you and I. Walk a mile in another’s shoes.
No easy answers; just symptoms of our increasingly unhealthy societies.
And, yes, the IRS should not get one penny of Canadian funding that should go to my adult child or to any other such person and all the other absurdity that goes with that. Talk about fraud from another’s point of view!
How much collateral damage, any kind of US collateral damage, do our countries deem acceptable for the good of their financial institutions?
As to whether benefits are sustainable in any society that has a welfare system – it only works when it isn’t being abused – that is debatable. But I’m not going to pick and paw at the system. It is what it is. I’m trying to bring light to what is taxable by the USG and it seems like the piece of the pie that is taxable is far greater than what is assumed. There are many reasons why a person may be on welfare and personal injury or neurological disorder are but two of them.
I am not in an employer-employee relationship, but I am also not in the welfare system though people have told me to do so (from some government agencies as well here in Canada). You can be sure of the fact that I told them what I thought of that option. I’ve opted to go the self-employed route (photography) and though I don’t make a whole helluva lot of money – think indigent amounts, at least it’s better than the situation that I had in employment. I have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorder as well as the simple fact that I am antisocial at best (I don’t like people – especially judgmental ones) and I have a flashpoint which some people might find is hair-trigger.
My wife is only able to work part-time because in retail that’s all you get. There is no career growth in retail sales unless you stay with the company for twenty years and work your way up from part-time to permanent part-time and if you’re lucky you get one of the limited number of full time management positions where you make a somewhat decent salary. My wife currently makes an hourly wage of $15.10 an hour (if it were full-time, we’d have a pretty comfortable living wage; but since she only gets about 24 hrs every two weeks, it’s but a mere pittance) and we feed the family and clothe them on what’s left. Camera equipment for the business is bought by saving monthly whatever is left over and buying it outright when we have enough saved up.
So how do we survive? We negotiated with the landlord (my mother) for a utilities in lieu of rent to keep our housing costs down. We have a car (due to the fall down the steps which gave me a back injury that damaged nerves to the point where I’m not able to stand for long periods of time) for which we make payments on what my wife makes. We’ve had to make hard decisions on what was necessary. My wife is going back to school for a degree to give her an option of potentially getting a better job. I work at wildlife photography (as long as I can still walk a certain distance without having to sit down; I will not touch disability with a fifty foot pole – I’ll leave the disability for those who truly need it – if I can walk, I don’t feel disabled) because with my anti-social nature; the best place for me is to be in the wild and away from people. I won’t make any apologies for that. It’s the best thing for me (though the business is in it’s early stages and not making much money) and it keeps me from going POSTAL which FATCA is doing a good job of raising my blood pressure to the boiling point.
Since my disabled son could not renounce, we’ve had to “adopt him” to a family that is fully Canadian to keep his disability from prying eyes. The guilt from that is something that I will carry along with me for the rest of my days but it is the safest thing for him. That way he is kept out of the system and they can’t touch him. And combined with my back injury, there is no way that I would have been able to monitor him. As he gets older, he’s getting stronger to the point where only I would be able to hold him back from a dangerous situation that he cannot comprehend – he is severely developmentally disabled. He spends time with his grandmother, but for us with the spectre of my wife’s US citizenship, we feel that its safer that my wife and I have “no contact”. We had to do what we had to do to “protect” him. This is what FATCA has reduced the family to. And for having to institute that option, I cannot and will not forgive the US Government nor will I respect any homelander.
I have no respect for anyone who feels that the USG has a right to tax expats and justifies this by saying “the law is the law”. As someone who is incidentally affected by FATCA due to his wife’s citizenship, I’m with Carol when I say this: “Quite frankly, I resent the time and heartache that FATCA has inflicted on my family. I resent the cost that it will take to remove my wife from the rolls of the IRS and the overreaching grasp of the United States Government”. Hellfire and devastation to the USG cannot come soon enough for me and every fibre of my being longs to see the United States reduced to rubble and every homelander reduced to a grasping, begging piece of human excrement. How’s that for HATE, Neill?
Neill, as Calgary411 points out – it’s really not that simple.
Is it easier to get SSDI then it was before the 2008 crash? Yes. SSDI and early SS are the quick fixes that the Obama admin has applied liberally to lower unemployment numbers and to free up jobs that older workers (many of them who do have valid reasons to retire early) would make way for more able bodied and younger workers.
But a “bad back” still means MRIs and doctors reports. And I am doubting that people are getting SSDI with simple arthritis. I have a sibling in the US who has several bad discs and her DRs have all but offered to fill out the SSDI paperwork for her b/c she is one unpredictable heavy lift (she works in a nursing home) away from being unable to walk. Your health issue still has to be severe.
And as an aside on the depression thing? My late aunt suffered from depression. The kind that regularly landed her in the hospital for ECT because if defied medicated treatment. Depression can be severely debilitating – just saying.
What torqued me, when I was still resident in the homeland – and an American, was the fact that many people who ended up on SSDI did so because their very treatable chronic conditions weren’t treated. Why? No healthcare.
Sadly, I don’t think Obamacare has really fixed this.
But, I get your frustration even if I feel that you are misdirecting your ire about people who are just as much victims of the system as you are.
USCitizenAbroad, you hit the problem on the head. The US doesn’t really recognize permanent emigration of any kind but since they can’t overtly outlaw it, they have covertly made it impossible one legal maneuver at a time. That’s why now, it is basically impossible to live outside the US for all but the very shortest amounts of time unless you give up USC. Even giving it up, you still have the headache for the rest of your life (if you have a US birthplace) of having to prove you are no longer their citizen. Their little parting “eff you” to those who choose to be citizens somewhere else.
Someone pointed out to me that I was doing my child a disservice in allowing her to try to relinquish b/c she isn’t mature enough to understand what she is giving up.
As I see it – and explained to her – she is giving up only the right to live and work in the USA, but in doing so, she is gaining the right to live ANYWHERE else in the world with access to jobs and education and a financial future that every other kid she knows has.
Why should she be limited to just the mid-section of North America because she was born there? That’s not freedom. But it is, apparently, the American version of it.
…Furthermore I also resent the fact that my oldest and second sons cannot get part-time jobs to help fund their post-secondary education as the USG will stick their greedy hands in any amount of income that they earns past $10,000 an year and manages to save up to pay for their education. And as someone who has been transmitted US citizenship, evidently renunciation with the ensuing $2350 cost is their only option of getting rid of their shackles.
My wife falls in the category of confirmed “US transmittal of citizenship at birth” as she has spent the qualifying years of her life after 14 in the states before she moved up to Canada at the age of 24. You only need 4 years, she has 10.
So frankly, as someone who is of minimal income; FATCA and it’s resultant IGAs affects me personally and I resent every single bit of it.
Just curious. . as to why people bend over backwards and stress out their whole life just to comply with some unfair rules of a foreign country? Is it worth the stress? Do you really want to visit USA so badly that you can’t face the idea of never going to USA again? If all Canadians who are targeted by this US extortion scheme simply choose to no longer visit USA and no longer file ANY papers with that country. it would be more a more powerful and effective message and challenge than any lawsuit. And would be much cheaper.
” If all Canadians who are targeted by this US extortion scheme simply choose to no longer visit USA and no longer file ANY papers with that country. it would be more a more powerful and effective message and challenge than any lawsuit.”
What that means though is that we always have to sleep with one eye open and run the ever-increasing dragnet of the IRS. No, my wife and I don’t plan to ever set foot in the United States again, but we will always have to remain vigilant that Canada does not allow US police or any law-enforcement agencies free-will to do what they will within the confines of the Canadian border. And that is not an eventuality that I am willing to stomach. I don’t need the added blood-pressure increase. What rest I get; I’d like to be peaceful.
Think that isn’t happening: Thing again – http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/u-s-wants-cross-border-officers-exempt-from-canadian-law-1.1359107
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-u-s-border-deal-marks-significant-step-1.1079546 – Evidently Harper is trying to make Canada into USA Lite.
@meridian
That’s fine until the US threatens the world with some new legislation called “GOTCHA” that forces every government to collect whatever taxes, fines and penalties they have decided to impose on the citizens of that government based on the data that government has provided under FATCA to root out the US persons. If they don’t comply, the GOTCHA legislation will impose a 50% withholding tax on all their financial institutions.
Think that is ridiculous and could never happen? If you had described FATCA to most people 5 years ago in 2009 they would have said it was ridiculous and could never happen too.
@meridian, not everyone who visits the U.S. does so for a holiday or romp. Some have very close family ties there and do not want on top of having to renounce or relinquish to be prevented from seeing their family or visiting their former home. It’s a bridge to far. I suppose you could just ignore it and wait year in and out to find if they will discover you but, not everyone can or wants to take that risk. If you have no ties there then it might be an option for you to just abandon any idea of going there ever again and get on with your life. Because people’s situations are all so different not everyone can take the same options.
The cost of all this for low income people is insane. I resent it too. I spent money on all this that took money out of the pocket of my kid who is trying to go to school right now despite other challenges. I wanted to be able to help him more but,we spent thousands we did NOT have to get me square and then out of the U.S. system which we could never continue to afford year on year anyway. All this for not ever owing them anything. And as animal outlined above all the things that are not included in the earned income exclusion were glaring right at us. We had a tiny amount in a RESP, thank god MY name was not on that or else that money taxable in the U.S. would be even more taken away from my kid. Yes, I resent that. Some FATCAT I am!
There were plenty of other issues. My son has some RDSP too AND my spouse might lose his job very soon as has been threatened lately massive layoffs at his company. So where was I to get the money to file all these insane forms? Take it out of his unemployment? They can talk all they like about how this isn’t forcing lower income people to renounce but, it IS in fact. Those who are not renouncing have CHOICES about these things and more money. That’s good for them. Also, many expats are not long term and always intended to move back at some point. They do not have foreign family, they do not have life long commitments outside the U.S. so naturally those in that position are not going to renounce. The question is out of the seven million how many are long term? More than ten years abroad with family ties abroad? That’s who is hit here. Not the person working abroad for five years or the student with minor issues compared to those with family abroad and long term ties.
Fatca cannot and will not reach its stated goals. The targets they say they are going after are not being impacted as severely as the people they say FATCA defends! It’s possibly the worst law I’ve ever seen come out of any WH for decades in terms of negative impact on unintended targets or the poor.
Personally, I think if you are low income, disabled, the family member of anyone like Carol who is severely impacted that these stories need to be front and center since home landers really believe to this day this is about FATCAT tax cheats. I do have to wonder though having been painted in that light, having your family abroad painted in that light by this adminstration why anyone long term still wants to be a “U.S. person” They believe you are a criminal with no evidence, warrant or legal process or defense you are being treated as such and so is your family.
The U.S. is treating expat families as if they were objects and not human beings. That’s what cold hearted narcissists do. In this way it IS like being married to an abuser.
“And as animal outlined above all the things that are not included in the earned income exclusion were glaring right at us.” Thanks. I try.
I try to think things through thoroughly – though I’m not post-secondary edumacated and people tell me that I am slightly more intelligent than a kumquat. 😀
@all,
You guys say it isn’t ‘that simple’ but it is for me. Whatever these grasping people want is satisfied from my hide. That’s pretty simple. Whatever the problem the solution is to take more money from me.
I don’t care if you’re having a hard time finding a job or getting by or whatever. You would bloody well really have a hard time coming up with all the money I pay the IRS each year.
You guys want to have it both ways. The USG is taxing my welfare and at the same time complaining about NIIT on a primary residence at gains of >$500k. Complaining you disability is taxed at the same time talking about having to file 8938! Saying you have a hard time putting food on the table while complaining about having to file FBAR.
I think much of what the USG is doing is wrong. It’s a direct consequence of electing Obama with his punishing the rich mantra. He was very clear about it. People on welfare brought us this crap so they could get more. So if a few on welfare get hammered by FATCA that would be it’s only plus point. I doubt it though because they have nothing and the IRS doesn’t give a damn about those without stuff to take.
At present the Canadian government through the CRA will only turn over information to the US Internal Revenue about “US persons”. However, how long will it be before the US government is demanding that Canada collect taxes and penalties for them? Who will say no to the US government? Certainly not that Quisling Harper and his cronies. US police agencies are now operating in Canada and they are demanding legal immunity. What’s to stop them from picking someone off the streets of Toronto and rendering them back to the US? Don’t expect that Quisling Harper to do anything. He’s too busy selling out the country with his many “free trade” agreements all over the globe.
I’m not on disability EITHER, asshole. And I don’t care. Considering your standpoint on people like Carol having to pay the USG out of her son’s disability, I’m perfectly within my rights to call you one.
Let me make it absolutely clear, Neill, since despite your vast amounts of money, your understanding is less than stellar: My family LIVES on what money my wife makes at her part-time job. Don’t like it, DEAL. I’m not taking money out of YOUR pocket so FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!
@The_Animal
I haven’t said your on welfare. My position is simple:
The IRS won’t give a damn about people on welfare because it’s all about taking their money and they don’t have any. Yes they can volunteer to give them money and they will take it.
They won’t get FBAR penalties because they don’t have any money.
I have no sympathy for a lot of people on welfare because I think it’s a scam. When you actually have to pay for this stuff it a hell of a lot different from having high ideals about what