Somewhere around right about now, three years ago, the worldwide U.S. person horror show began its gruesome run. This fright night still plays strong in pretty well any country outside the United States that you may happen to reside in.
Here are my nominations for the top three quotations so far, in chronological order. Notice that two of the three characters have already departed the scene.
FATCA has far-reaching extraterritorial implications. It would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians. … Canada is not a tax haven. People do not flock to Canada to avoid paying taxes.
— Jim Flaherty (then Canadian Minister of Finance) 16 Sept 2011
My message on this one is to sit tight. We are not unreasonable. We are not unsympathetic. We are not irresponsible.
— David Jacobson (then US Ambassador to Canada) 18 Oct 2011
Political signals from the United States show that expatriation and tax policies are likely to get harsher. … The cost of expatriation now is less than the expected future cost of expatriation. Better to take the medicine now rather than later. … Expect the same exit tax rules, but more of them, and worse. Expect more expatriations. … Get out while the getting is semi-good. Don’t wait for more time. More time means more laws.
— Phil Hodgen (still a tax lawyer) 5 June 2012
Feel free to propose other sourced contenders in comments to this posting.
USCitizenAbroad:
“Renounce and Be Free!
“Get out while the getting is semi-good. Don’t wait for more time. More time means more laws.”
Less than a month and I will be out, but my poor kid has years to go and who knows if she will be allowed to shed her “birthright”, a dubious gift that will make life in Canada – the only country she really knows now – difficult by burdening her with permanent second class citizen status.
Meeting soon with the person who is likely to be the Liberal candidate for our riding in the next election. Might even help with the campaign but I am going to want to know that Trudeau understands the importance of overturning the FATCA IGA before I lift a finger to help. My child’s future is at stake. I need to know that our government considers her a full-fledged citizen and is committed to protecting her rights under the Charter.
Screw the US! We are Canadians. Their stinking law doesn’t apply here!
@YogaGirl
“Their stinking law doesn’t apply here!”
I agree but if you truly believe this then you don’t need Justin Trudeau to tell you that it is OK to ignore US law in Canada. With all due respect to Tricia Moon, who I know is one of the principals of ADCS–a “renounce and be free” attitude simply won’t cut it long term. A “renounce and be free” attitude simply allows the USG to put whatever price it wants on renunciation. You need to take the attitude that you are free to ignore US law in Canada. As long as you tie yourself to some US process like renunciation you will never be free.
“Thou Shalt Not Leave this Country under Punishment of Great Fines.”
http://samuelclemmons.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/economic-patriotism-is-the-berlin-wall-rebuilt/
@usxcanada A very worthy post as many here strive to develop and refine the language that communicates the injustices involved and may resonate with those everyday Americans and those in position who may do something about it.
I have been saving snipets from other posters, yet apologies that I have not saved the posters names associated with them. How do we proceed? Do we have nominations and 2nd good ones.
I believe this description “Berlin Wall” has some resonance:
Ironic, a country founded on a revolt over confiscatory taxes now has built a “virtual Berlin Wall” of obtuse taxation and compliance around its citizens and non-citizens alike that would give a smile to King George III himself.
Land of the free? Please. We fought the War of 1812 to give Americans the right to choose their citizenship and stop Britain from impressing sailors. Now we’re doing the same thing: holding people captive. Let the people be free!
The United States with respect to Canada should state in a tax treaty with Canada; “A US Citizen lawfully resident in Canada will be considered to have met his/her obligations under the US Internal Revenue Code having fullfilled his/her obligations under the Canadian Revenue Code.”
FATCA will reveal these locally held, already taxed, legally earned monies, and will result in bankrupting penalties being assessed on people whose only crime was birth on US soil.
This will, on a human level, narrow Americans’ perspective and awareness of the world. It will also mean fewer people outside the U.S. will have personal and business relationships with Americans. The world will have less America and America will have less of the world. The drawbridge is being pulled up, and the moat is being filled. This is bad.
Wasn’t the United States founded on the idea that paying taxes to a foreign country was somehow wrong?
I object to a foreign government financially terrorizing honest people for committing the “crime” of having legal bank accounts where they live, work, earn an income, raise families, own homes, vote, volunteer and pay taxes.
Fine well and good if you have the money to do so…For those of us who are low-income. Our only recourse is civil disobedience.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwf0SHFIMAAOkDJ.jpg
“Sauve qui peut” 🙂
Dash1729, I know that US law doesn’t apply here but we need a PM and a sitting govt that knows this too and if Trudeau is looking to be that guy – he has some assurances to make b/c I will support the party that understands this. So far, the Liberals have not stepped up on this issue (Brison and Hsu aside) and this is an issue that demands a party policy statement.
I know that the majority of Canadians don’t concern themselves with politics beyond griping and maybe voting but it’s been my limited experience here that has convinced me that this is a huge mistake on the part of my fellow citizens. It is far easier to access one’s representatives at municipal, provincials and even the federal level than it ever was when I lived in the US. Canadians are incredibly lucky to have such access and input and we should take advantage of this.
I am so fortunate to be on the verge of Canadian citizenship. This is a amazing country.
@bubblebustin
LOL!
Conservative MP Gerald Keddy:
“I’ve never heard the term “US Person” before. Either you’re an American citizen or you’re not an American citizen.”
“Fatca, the gift that just keeps on giving.”
“#EconomicPatriotism” is the #BerlinWall—Rebuilt
#fbar #FATCA
http://bit.ly/1w1baDi
@Dash1729
I believe the point of this particular post is to gather quotes that have been influential over the last 3 years; things that were said that had a great deal of influence as we trudged through this mess.
I am not defending or proclaiming anything about anyone’s course of action; just referring to something that old timers are likely to enjoy.
“Congress has spoken.” (Mike Allen Con M.P., House of Commons Finance Committee
And “Congress can kiss my ample butt (after I’ve eaten a great big Mexican burrito with extra hot sauce”.
This is the statement I want read out someday:
“The European Court of Justice has struck down all Model 1 IGAs and the FATCA issue will now have to go back to each respective Parliament for a proper debate. It seems now there are only two choices, either share all resident citizen’s data with America or none. The FATCA issue is now in the wider public domain making wholesale sharing tax information very difficult politically for any government. They won’t be able to sweep it under the carpet or pass legislation in the dead of the night this time.”
“Those who study this area of the law will conclude that the Department of Finance did the right thing when it executed the IGA with the US.
If it had not, then Canadian financial institutions would have been subject to the harsh and thorny provisions of FATCA. Instead, these entities are now subject to the much more sane provisions of the IGA and Canadian domestic legislation. The IGAs represent a good deal for the countries that enter into them and, more importantly, the US has the right the collect the information on its citizens, and also the right to impose a sanction for non-compliance.
The IGAs are not a “your money or your life” choice….”. [Tax Times, 12:2014]
Roy A Berg JD, LLM (US TAX)
Director, US Tax Law, Barrister and Solicitor
Moodys Gartner
[Canada]
It’s not about FATCA, but since Eric’s post yesterday about Sam and the dogs, I can’t get this quote out of my head. With regard to how the US sees homelanders vs expats:
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
– George Orwell, Animal Farm
Two tiny words changed below. You don’t get two guesses as to the source of the following text:
“Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our [American] brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their [Congress] to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.”
When a politician sees that the law they passed is not working they ”fix” it. The fix always ends up worse than the law, in the begining. Citizenship renouncings went up several fold, so what do they do? they raise the exit fee over 500%, If that fails to stem the renouncing tide, they will make it worse, It is a shame everyone interested in this matter, foreign or domestic, don’t get on the same page, with the exact drumbeat, PASS THE FAIRTAX–PASS THE FAIRTAX–PASS THE FAIRTAX–PASSTHE FAIRTAX PASS THE FAIRTAX. Every issue connected with FBAR would suddenly and surely disappear if we have the FAIRTAX instead of the Marxist Income tax they are trying to enforce the world around.
@Tricia Moon
“I believe the point of this particular post is to gather quotes that have been influential over the last 3 years”
Got it! I admit I didn’t fully understand the point of this thread. Thanks for clarifying.
BTW though I only started posting here around some time in 2013, I have been familiar with FATCA since shortly after it was passed in 2010. It has been something I’ve been keeping an eye on being the latest attempt–after the Patriot Act and Real ID–of the federal government to extend its power. I realized that as a long term green card holder (as I was at the time) it had the potential to make it significantly more difficult to repatriate to Canada.
“Surgite!” — Major-General Sir Isaac Brock
@Dash1729
I am curious, if I may ask. Do you feel you might come back to Canada someday? Do you ever have any concerns that having become a USC could somewhere down the road, interfere with returning to Canada?
While not quotes, the acronyms coined by Just_Me:
LCU’s. Life Credit Units
CC&W. Complain, Comply and Warn
DATCA. Domestic Account Tax Compliance Act
GATCA. Global Account Tax Compliance Act
My favorite: FATCAnatics!
Thanks, Don.
That is, of course, the only way that the laws of our own countries outside the US will not be overridden to allow rights to be waived for one group of its people (by national origin discrimination).
Would our government representatives and fellow countrymen want their private financial information sent to the US IRS?