The exclusion of certain foreign-earned income (up to $95,100 in 2012) and housing benefits privileges income earned out of the country and encourages the movement of United States citizens to foreign jurisdictions.
1. With respect to tax evasion and fraud, work to maximize wealth and income transparency. The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), and similar laws adopted by other countries, represents an important legislative step forward in requiring foreign financial institutions to report balances, financial activities, and transactions to a taxpayer’s home jurisdiction. Communions that recognize the fallen nature of humanity support transparent financial reporting. This transparency fosters equality and fairness, and helps address tax avoidance and fraud, including money laundering.
2. Work with international coalitions and communions to oppose “race to the bottom” policies enacted by states and countries that seek to attract business investment and wealthy depositors by assessing extremely low tax rates and creating secrecy jurisdictions. These policies hurt economic competition by disadvantaging companies that do not engage in tax avoidance strategies and reduce government revenues needed for domestic social and economic development.
@Forestgumpy
Right! At the height of spanish treasury bankruptcy just in the last few years – the government was talking about taxing the catholic church. Their answer was: if you do that, we will close all of our charitable institutions.
@Dash:
“I assume you are talking about this survey:” Overseas Vote Foundation
Yes, the 2008 Overseas Vote Foundation survey. Prof. von Koppenfels book appears to have additional details of the results, beyond those in the link:
Marriage/Partnership: 28.8%
Employment: 24.0%
Personal preference: 15.3%
Other: 8.0%
Military service: 4.7%
Born abroad: 4.0%
Retirement: 2.9%
Academic research: 2.7%
Student – independent study: 2.3%
Student – study abroad program: 1.8%
Economic reasons: 1.7%
Government posting: 1.3%
Health/healthcare: 0.7%
Professional/vocational training: 0.5%
Language study: 0.4%
Internship: 0.2%
One possible conclusion from the results of this survey is that if “Taxation” had been cited as a reason by at least 0.2% of the 24,031 respondents then it would have been mentioned above.
@George
Yes, they certainly do give people the wrong impression.
Re: the TV series – the title rings a bell, but I’ve never seen it. (Maybe I should have. 😉 )
Good grief. The Bible says nothing about “transparent financial reporting”. It says a lot about money, including the famous line “the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil” and stories of wicked people who coveted it, including the despised tax collectors for the Romans. After Jesus met with Zacchaeus the tax collector, Zac’s heart was changed to do right and to repay people he cheated.
Our hearts are in the right place. We need to change the law in Canada that enables the despised tax collectors for the IRS to put their “love of money” ahead of our people. And for Christians reading this who pray the Lord’s prayer: “lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil” that the Lord will deliver us from this evil. Amen.
@Dude1729
Judea was under Roman rule and taxes were paid to the Romans . So when Jesus said “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar”s” he was for residence based taxation. Since Jesus stood for the common man, taught forgiveness and kindness, he should be given some respect and not be referred to as ‘Dude”.
While I personally believe that it is wrong to make a theological argument for or against FATCA based on Scripture, if the PCUSA desires to go down that road they need to answer several other questions;
1. Are the penalties for FBAR violations in alignment with either the law of the Old Testament or the teachings of the New Testament?
2. Is it acceptable under either the law of the Old Testament or the teachings of the New Testament for a mans labor to be taxed twice by either the same earthly king or by two separate earthly kings?
3. Is it acceptable under either the law of the Old Testament or the teachings of the New Testament for a mans allegiance to be claimed by two separate earthly kings?
4. Is it acceptable under either the law of the Old Testament or the teachings of the New Testament for a mans allegience to be pledged simultaneously to two or more separate earthly kings?
Scripture for the day; Romans 13:7;
“Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.”
I think the fundamental root cause of all this stuff is that there’s an unelaborated, unthinking assumption that if you’re not in the US you’re not paying tax. At all. As if the US was unique in the world in having income tax, or that other countries have it but for some strange reason don’t tax Americans resident in their countries.
Perhaps a nice emotional slogan such as “We already pay more tax than you. And you want more?” would be the way forward?
Can removing financial barriers to emigration be considered encouraging people to leave?
Will creating a financial barrier to renouncing US citizenship discourage people from renouncing?
For some, yes, for some, no. Some people will do anything to be free.
Some comments above not only disagree with the recommendations of this committee, but find it surprising and offensive that they should address taxation at all. But tax policy is social policy, and there is a long tradition of social engagement within Christian churches. Within only the protestant and largely Anglo tradition, you have William Wilberforce, who led opposition to slavery; the social gospel movement in the UK and Canada, which produced for instance J.S. Woodsworth, Methodist minister and co-founder of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation, later the New Democratic Party; and in the US you have various church-related organisations that led the civil rights movement in the American South.
So, it is reasonable that the church would address questions of tax fairness. Why do they support FATCA without reservation? Because they don’t see the harm it is doing innocent people. The solution to this is education, and people who are otherwise supportive of their objectives (and I am one of those) might contact members of the committee to give them our side of the story. It’s a tough fight, but they might even be prepared to listen.
So much for the “Separation of Church and State!”
Ann,
… OR the real importance of separation of church and state!!!
Are these people on insane? Or are they corrupt political hacks?
Every time I think I’ve heard it all some other bunch of nutters comes up with something else. Unfortunately, this particular bunch of nutters needs an education about the meaning of justice very, very fast. For all its official separation of church and state, the United States is politically driven significantly by religious beliefs. If large religious bodies like the Presbyterians get the notion that FATCA and CBT are the 11th and 12th Commandments then our battle could get even nastier. I urge anyone who is “safe” from repercussions to try to get in touch with the Presbyterians and sort them out.
fred: “I think the fundamental root cause of all this stuff is that there’s an unelaborated, unthinking assumption that if you’re not in the US you’re not paying tax. At all.” You sure got that right! A few years ago, before all this madness started, I was corresponding with a cousin of mine in the States and casually mentioned that I was really busy and didn’t have a lot of time to write because it was tax time. Her reply: “Oh. Do you pay taxes in Canada?” The ignorance is absolutely unbelievable.
That’s because they think Canada is a communist country where you don’t pay tax.
Just like the Churches in Nazi Germany, the US Churches have sold out to Nazi US.
“Religious” Enemies of Liberty
Instead, in quintessential American fashion, religion has come to be largely controlled and neutered by the state through the instruments of the tax code and the federal budget.
It is rare for a self-proclaimed “conservative” minister to ever voice anything but the mildest criticism of government, for they are all in mortal fear of losing their tax exemptions for doing so. Not only that, but many churches receive direct grants from the government and are therefore bribed into silence. Catholic Charities, Lutheran Social Services, and the Jewish Federations receive more than half of their revenues from governments, for example.
He doesn’t mention the PC but I am sure they are just like the other pigs gorging at the trough.
The pertinent questions for the Canadians is why are your Churches so silent in this assault, or are they Nazi too?
@small
I apologize if my comments were disrespectful. Yes it is not so much that the Romans practiced CBT as that they extended their reach and taxed their whole empire including many areas that were not primarily populated by Romans. In that empire building sense it does remind me of the USA and FATCA. I suspect that this Presbyterian group is essentially saying “it is the Christian thing to do” (FATCA) and that may be part of what we are up against.
@Innocente
I would not be surprised if the number of people claiming taxation as their PRIMARY reason for going abroad is less than 0.2%. I said that it happens–not that it was the common scenario.
In reality what sometimes happens is that someone receives a job offer in their field from a country with a low (or zero) tax rate. The low taxes are then part of–not the complete picture–their decision to go abroad or stay home. I suspect most such people–and probably my friend–would cite ’employment’ as their primary reason for going abroad. But the low taxes for such employment–in cases where the tax is indeed low–is a consideration in their decision.
My point is that, yes, it occasionally happens but when it does these people (such as my friend) are NOT tax cheats. They are earning their money abroad and not receiving any US services and shouldn’t be subject to US taxes any more than Brockers in Canada should be. The fact that they may be paying less (or nothing) in taxes in their destination than they would be in the US (or Canada) is between them and their host country. They are moving abroad at least partly for tax reasons but they are doing nothing wrong by doing so.
Again, though, it is not the common scenario. Most expats end up in a country with higher taxes than the US and are not relocating for tax reasons. I also suspect this scenario (moving abroad in part for tax reasons) will become even less common under FATCA–but there will still be occasions where people can work around FATCA well enough for a few years to make it worthwhile.
I agree with NorthernShrike. I think it very likely that this Presbyterian committee is woefully uneducated on what FATCA really is and the harm it is doing..
NorthernShrike wrote,
Many churches do have a history of, and current day activities in, the area of social justice. My best friend in the US is active in social justice movements, a member of the Labour-Religion Coalition, and FWIW I’ve seen a photo of her in the newspaper at a demonstration holding a sign that said “Tax the Rich!” But when I told her about FATCA and the damage it’s doing to innocent people, she not only “got it,” she asked me to send her some material/links on it, which she then sent to her congressman — and his office telephoned her, asking her to send more!
So, this might actually be a good opportunity to contact this Presbyterian committee and set them straight on what FATCA is really doing to people.
@Secessionist
There is this understanding among my friends: whoever compares X to the Nazis automatically loses the argument.
Re: “…….and encourages the movement of United States citizens to foreign jurisdictions.”
This comes up repeatedly in various contexts. Some, like this religious group are just ignorant of the several ways in which US citizenship is contracted from afar by people who’ve never set foot in the place and never will. But I suspect that others (as in subjective rationalizing discussions of CBT and FATCA by US academics and government officials) would prefer not to acknowledge that they are forcing lifelong US extraterritorial double taxation and penalty jeopardy on babies born outside the US, as citizens of other countries, on the soil of all the other non-US countries around the globe – of which the majority are NOT US territory, who are being taxed by the US solely based on parentage. Difficult to justify and rationalize. Even for those who pretend that the US extraterritorial tax is based on the nebulous theoretical potential for someone to grow up and move to the US. Or that the baby with inherited CBT burden is part of some imaginary US ‘polity’ or ‘community’ and thus ‘benefit’ from afar – and therefore must pay a mandatory membership fee for life, whether they ever set foot there or not. Tenuous BS.
Has no-one in the US ever heard that every day, babies are born outside the confines of the US? Or did those babies conspire to be born ‘abroad’ (ex. in Canada) in order to use and abuse the FEIE? Do fetuses engineer their conception and birth outside the US? Did they arrange to ‘leave’ the US? Since US citizenship can be conferred to people born outside the US, to one or two US citizen parents, obviously there are many babies born outside the US who have never set foot in the US, and who just happened to have a US status parent. There ought to be a law. Maybe Schumer, Levin, et al will come up with the Foreign Birth Abroad Prohibition Act to stop all that pre-natal conspiring.
And, are people not free to travel and leave the confines of Hotel USA if they want to? Are these people advocating that US citizens and residents should be subject to constraints on the right to leave?
The amount of ridiculous excrement generated about the need to restrain the mostly imaginary and paranoid ‘movement’ of US taxpayers leaving the US and taking assets with them is beyond belief – and coming from a range of US homelanders – now including a church weighing in, is there no limit to the absurdity?
They don’t want people moving into the US, and they don’t want people moving outwards either.
@NorthernShrike, Nazi is the right word. Have you been paying attention to what Nato has been doing around the world in the last few years? R2P? Libya? Fogh of war Rassmussen? Canada is an integral part of Nato and has been flying material directly to Ukraine. Well done Canucks!
And check this out: Canadian Nazi’s bombing civilians
Here is a good description of what Canada and her allies are up to:
What Nato wants
Maybe comparison to the Spanish Inquisition would be more acceptable than the Third Reich.
Or if you prefer the pilgrims who burned innocents in Plymouth.
The key word is the same “persecution”.
badger,
I, of course, love your pondering:
Thanks @calgary, just cannot believe the stupidity and ignorance and vindictiveness of the US Homelanders prescribing what millions outside the US should endure. And that goes for those those who should know better – by virtue of having all this spelled out to them repeatedly now – and that includes the US tax law academics who don’t or won’t get the deep lack of ethics of keeping minors and those deemed incompetent trapped in US citizenshiptaxableperson status against their will or the will of their parents and legal guardians, and the US extraterritorial taxes levied on their education and disability savings and benefits – which were provided wholly by the government and taxpayers of their non-US home country. A truth and an injustice they would rather ignore.