then, of course, there was the whole debacle of their public rebuke of the chief justice of the supreme court. they were criticized for that from across canada and even attracted international attention. yet, they forge full steam ahead with arrogance.
What a stroke of luck it would be if the judge (or one of the judges, if more than one) immigrated to Canada from the US many years ago whether or not they were still dual. Such a judge would “get it”, no problem.
Such was the case a few years ago when I went for my Canadian Citizenship ceremony. I was hoping for a private opportunity to query the judge about his own US status because he made several comments during the ceremony that indicated moving to Canada and becoming a Canadian was one of the most pivotal events of his life (and would also be for those of us gathered in the room that day). Alas, that opportunity never arose.
We all have the right to move, change our nationality, and live our lives going forward without interference from our former country. Its not that hard a concept, but there’s nothing like experiencing that situation oneself to ensure a complete “gut” understanding.
Hi, Blaze.
Absolutely — only commenting on their statement. This adds to the load they have to defend themselves on. Justin Ling had a good column last week on the Bills likely to invite litigation, Bill C-31 not included.
(Good to see you here commenting once again. Hope each day sees you stronger!! We need your voice here.)
Not surprised that a remark like that from the Harper corner would get you out punching, Lynne. Welcome back!
…and with only one hand, no less!
@LM
‘“The Unites States also automatically considers anyone born outside the United States to be a citizen and a US Person if both of that person’s parents were United States citizens at the time of birth, the parents were married at the time of birth, and at least one parent lived in the United States or its territories prior to the birth.”
Is this fully accurate?’
It is true as far as it goes but, yes, it doesn’t address the situation where only one parent is a US citizen at the time of the child’s birth. I don’t believe the intent here is to enumerate every possible situation where the USG might consider someone a “US person”. More to the point, I believe it should not attempt to do so, because the more important point IMHO is the following:
“The contours of United States citizenship and the definition of US Person are matters of United States law and/or policy and are subject to change by the United States at any time.”
This litigation should aim to defend the rights of all “US persons” in Canada, regardless of how that term might change or evolve on the US side in the future. Therefore it should not be limited to the specific definitions of “US person” that might be currently in use in the US.
@Anne Frank
“I think it is ten years in total and five past the age of 14 but I frankly can’t be bothered to look it up!”
This particular law attracted widespread publicity in the US, actually, well before FATCA was passed. It is the basis of the so-called “Obama birthers” claim. Although their claim is likely spurious, it is based on the assumption (whether absurd or not) that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii. If Obama was born in Kenya, then he had only one US citizen parent (his mother). If he was born in Kenya, then his mother (regardless of any other movements she might have made) could not have accumulated 5 years of US residency past age 14, because she was only 18 at the time of his birth. So–again if you go with the underlying assumption that Obama was born in Kenya–he would not be a US citizen.
“…and with only one hand, no less!”
@ Bubblebustin
Actually at times, when the subject matter inspires, Lynne-Blaze is typing with one middle finger which is just getting stronger and stronger as the rest of her body convalesces. Look out Mr. Harper et al. when she comes blazing back in full force!
So the Harper government can’t comment about the lawsuit … well good. That means we can comment plenty and it will be our many righteous words against their sealed guilty lips.
A U.S. citizen whose child is born abroad may convey U.S. citizenship to the child. In some cases, derivative citizenship may be transmitted from a grandparent to a parent to a child. This “double derivative” transmission of U.S. citizenship is particularly prevalent among Canadians, Mexicans, Filipinos and Israelis.
This litigation should aim to defend the rights of all “US persons” in Canada, regardless of how that term might change or evolve on the US side in the future. Therefore it should not be limited to the specific definitions of “US person” that might be currently in use in the US
PS Trivia: My Canadian-born husband obtained his now-renounced US citizenship through grandparents as his dad moved from North Dakota to Saskatchewan with his parents who moved to homestead there when he was four years old. His dad died never knowing that he would have been considered a US citizen. His grandparents emigrated to the US from Finland, eventually ending up in North Dakota via Minnesota, as many other Finns.
thanks bb. still in hospital with broken shoulder and m.s. complications. expect 2 go 2 rehab tomorrow 4 6-8 weeks.
i have been in touch with stephen since fall.
typing, energy limited. all 4 now.
Useful in the lawsuit?
The FATCA IGA is supposed to turn over the financial and personal data of Canadian citizens and legal permanent residents that fit the US expansive definition of a ‘US taxable person’, and this data is purportedly ‘safe’ because it is to be treated as tax information. However, not only is it subject to the total lack of limitations under the Patriot Act, Homeland Security laws and the tender mercies of the NSA (and no doubt other secret US agencies), but the IRS itself CANNOT even safeguard the information it already collects.
So,
What possible legal defense could the Harper government have for automatically turning over the banking and personal data of over 1 million Canadians and their joint account holders – family and business partners when the IRS cannot even safeguard its own US resident taxpayer information, and has now been taken to task for it formally several times in TIGTA reports?:
See;
TREASURY INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR TAX ADMINISTRATION
‘Some Contractor Personnel Without Background Investigations Had Access to Taxpayer Data and Other Sensitive Information’ July 7, 2014 Reference Number: 2014-10-037
AND,
As Allison Christians points out, forcing all of those with non-US accts to file FBARs ONLY online may well be an infringement ripe for legal challenge in the US: http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2014/08/fbar-e-filing-violates-taxpayer-bill-of.html
Tuesday, August 12, 2014
‘FBAR e-filing: violates Taxpayer Bill of Rights, challengeable under Haar ‘
calgary, harper et al have been confident on a whole bunch of other cases–which they lost. here are a few.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/the-federal-government-s-court-case-losing-streak-1.2696593
then, of course, there was the whole debacle of their public rebuke of the chief justice of the supreme court. they were criticized for that from across canada and even attracted international attention. yet, they forge full steam ahead with arrogance.
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/international-law-group-raps-harper-over-supreme-court-feud/
@ Anne Frank;
What a stroke of luck it would be if the judge (or one of the judges, if more than one) immigrated to Canada from the US many years ago whether or not they were still dual. Such a judge would “get it”, no problem.
Such was the case a few years ago when I went for my Canadian Citizenship ceremony. I was hoping for a private opportunity to query the judge about his own US status because he made several comments during the ceremony that indicated moving to Canada and becoming a Canadian was one of the most pivotal events of his life (and would also be for those of us gathered in the room that day). Alas, that opportunity never arose.
We all have the right to move, change our nationality, and live our lives going forward without interference from our former country. Its not that hard a concept, but there’s nothing like experiencing that situation oneself to ensure a complete “gut” understanding.
Hi, Blaze.
Absolutely — only commenting on their statement. This adds to the load they have to defend themselves on. Justin Ling had a good column last week on the Bills likely to invite litigation, Bill C-31 not included.
(Good to see you here commenting once again. Hope each day sees you stronger!! We need your voice here.)
Pingback: The Isaac Brock Society | Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen commence FATCA lawsuit in Federal court of Canada— and receive response from Government of Canada
Not surprised that a remark like that from the Harper corner would get you out punching, Lynne. Welcome back!
…and with only one hand, no less!
@LM
‘“The Unites States also automatically considers anyone born outside the United States to be a citizen and a US Person if both of that person’s parents were United States citizens at the time of birth, the parents were married at the time of birth, and at least one parent lived in the United States or its territories prior to the birth.”
Is this fully accurate?’
It is true as far as it goes but, yes, it doesn’t address the situation where only one parent is a US citizen at the time of the child’s birth. I don’t believe the intent here is to enumerate every possible situation where the USG might consider someone a “US person”. More to the point, I believe it should not attempt to do so, because the more important point IMHO is the following:
“The contours of United States citizenship and the definition of US Person are matters of United States law and/or policy and are subject to change by the United States at any time.”
This litigation should aim to defend the rights of all “US persons” in Canada, regardless of how that term might change or evolve on the US side in the future. Therefore it should not be limited to the specific definitions of “US person” that might be currently in use in the US.
@Anne Frank
“I think it is ten years in total and five past the age of 14 but I frankly can’t be bothered to look it up!”
This particular law attracted widespread publicity in the US, actually, well before FATCA was passed. It is the basis of the so-called “Obama birthers” claim. Although their claim is likely spurious, it is based on the assumption (whether absurd or not) that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii. If Obama was born in Kenya, then he had only one US citizen parent (his mother). If he was born in Kenya, then his mother (regardless of any other movements she might have made) could not have accumulated 5 years of US residency past age 14, because she was only 18 at the time of his birth. So–again if you go with the underlying assumption that Obama was born in Kenya–he would not be a US citizen.
“…and with only one hand, no less!”
@ Bubblebustin
Actually at times, when the subject matter inspires, Lynne-Blaze is typing with one middle finger which is just getting stronger and stronger as the rest of her body convalesces. Look out Mr. Harper et al. when she comes blazing back in full force!
So the Harper government can’t comment about the lawsuit … well good. That means we can comment plenty and it will be our many righteous words against their sealed guilty lips.
Good article on this: http://shusterman.com/acquistionofuscitizenship.html
For anyone who does want to look it up:
How do you determine if you “acquired” U.S. citizenship at birth through a parent, or if you obtained derivative citizenship as a minor through your parent(s)? We simplify the complex laws regarding acquisition and derivation of US citizenship through parents and grandparents so that they are understandable to non-lawyers. There are 4 Nationality Charts that attorneys use to assist them in such cases.
So, YES,
PS Trivia: My Canadian-born husband obtained his now-renounced US citizenship through grandparents as his dad moved from North Dakota to Saskatchewan with his parents who moved to homestead there when he was four years old. His dad died never knowing that he would have been considered a US citizen. His grandparents emigrated to the US from Finland, eventually ending up in North Dakota via Minnesota, as many other Finns.
CBC News, August 13, 2014: Virginia Hillis, Gwendolyn Deegan sue Ottawa over new FATCA tax rules – American-born dual citizens, 1 living in Toronto and the other in Windsor, Ont., cite charter rights
thanks bb. still in hospital with broken shoulder and m.s. complications. expect 2 go 2 rehab tomorrow 4 6-8 weeks.
i have been in touch with stephen since fall.
typing, energy limited. all 4 now.
Useful in the lawsuit?
The FATCA IGA is supposed to turn over the financial and personal data of Canadian citizens and legal permanent residents that fit the US expansive definition of a ‘US taxable person’, and this data is purportedly ‘safe’ because it is to be treated as tax information. However, not only is it subject to the total lack of limitations under the Patriot Act, Homeland Security laws and the tender mercies of the NSA (and no doubt other secret US agencies), but the IRS itself CANNOT even safeguard the information it already collects.
So,
What possible legal defense could the Harper government have for automatically turning over the banking and personal data of over 1 million Canadians and their joint account holders – family and business partners when the IRS cannot even safeguard its own US resident taxpayer information, and has now been taken to task for it formally several times in TIGTA reports?:
See;
TREASURY INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR TAX ADMINISTRATION
‘Some Contractor Personnel Without Background Investigations Had Access to Taxpayer Data and Other Sensitive Information’ July 7, 2014 Reference Number: 2014-10-037
also http://www.accountingweb.com/article/lawmaker-lashes-out-irs-over-latest-tigta-findings/223746
AND,
As Allison Christians points out, forcing all of those with non-US accts to file FBARs ONLY online may well be an infringement ripe for legal challenge in the US:
http://taxpol.blogspot.ca/2014/08/fbar-e-filing-violates-taxpayer-bill-of.html
Tuesday, August 12, 2014
‘FBAR e-filing: violates Taxpayer Bill of Rights, challengeable under Haar ‘