Thanks very much, PatCanadian, for doing this interview!
Vancouver Sun: Metro Vancouver Woman Joins Movement to Drop US Citizenship
The author, Douglas Todd made contact with Pat, due to Pat having contacted the Vancouver Sun regarding their coverage of FATCA/US tax policy on Canadians.
He also asked Pat if she could help him get in touch with other people affected by this – several other Brockers/Sandboxers have – and also at the end of the article asks people to get in touch with him. I’m wondering (hoping!) that’s because he plans to do more coverage of this important issue.
It’s a complex issue with several, if not many, facets. If you’d like to share your story, or general information about the issue, and/or suggest another article focusing on a specific aspect/s of the problem, it may well be worth getting in touch with him.
Thank you for making its own thread of this, Pacifica777.
From Douglas Todd’s article: “Instead of each year hiring an accountant to fill out confusing U.S. tax forms simply to declare she has no investments or income south of the border, Pat has quietly sent off a request by mail to “relinquish” her American citizenship.”
It’s not income and investments south of border that Canadians are mostly terrified of reporting. He seems to have missed how US tax compliance is potentially bankrupting to many who’ve committed the crime of saving for their old age in Canada. It’s also not clear what Pat sent off to “relinquish” US citizenship, and who she sent it to.
I live in the Vancouver area and have made two attempts to contact Mr Todd, and he hasn’t responded. Not much more I can do 🙂
The photo says it all — illegal emigrants (runaway slaves) hiding in the shadows
Also, the possibility of fines for not filing FBAR and US. tax previously. It appears Pat has filed these but these fines are potentially bankrupting for those who have not:
It does not matter that Pat has no income South of the Boarder, the U.S. wants tax return filings and they will not recognise tax breaks of the Canadian government does – such as on retirement accounts – the U.S. government wants to treat these as if it is a tax dodging vehicle to be penalised, even though legal for tax breaks in Canada.
No mention of Canadian banks closing accounts of USP or of US financial institutions saying we don’t want your business if you do not have a US address. No mention of US restrictions on your Canadian business (as in neutralising Canadian tax break if you sell), no mention of hassles imposed by the US if you are a USP and signatory on an account for your employer. Yet is was a longish article so many points touched and even new ones.
There was mention about the Canadian government letting it all happen. The double tax could be prevented in a revised Canadian-US tax treaty that actually “prevents” double tax and crazy compliance penalties for most.
The symbolism ends there – the Canadian flag offers Pat no protection.
At this point in time, it seems only the North Korean, Cuban, Iranian and Zimbabwean flags can offer any degree of protection. Even the Russians and Chinese governments have caved in. Simply amazing!
The harsh reality is that everyone who is branded with “US taint” is on their own, no matter where they live in the world.
@bubble, at Pacifica’s request I also emailed Dodd twice a few days ago but not a peep was heard (I live in Van too). I think the story of what the kids who were branded naively by the parent who since has renounced, introduces a interesting conundrum, but that is probably too complicated for him to write about. There are lots of interesting facts and topics that this article missed. Maybe John Richardson should run a workshop for journalists who write about FATCA and renunciation?
That’s brilliant, kermitzii. I was actually going to refer him to John if he wanted more info on PFIC’s, etc. Maybe he’s been besieged by anti-FATCA activists!
Look what the Bank of Israel is telling its banks.
“Tax identity numbers of accounts of accounts maintained at June 30, 2014, need not be reported before the beginning of 2017; instead, dates of birth may be used”
So you can narrow down the person by 1/365 using the data of birth.
http://www.jpost.com/Business/Business-Features/YOUR-TAXES-What-you-need-to-know-about-the-US-Israel-FATCA-agreement-368523
Someone named ChrisTaylor at the Vancouver Sun article keeps insisting in several comments that Canada has the same taxation laws. I’ve tried to set him straight with my fake FB account, but have to wonder, why does someone care that much to propagate a non-fact unless there is some reason he does not want the truth out. I mean, I know why I am so determined to counteract his incorrect assertions, but what is in it for him?
@WhiteKat Someone just really put ChrisTaylor in his box. Let’s see if he comes out.
On July 21st I emailed Todd… Not a peep from him.
@JC that was me…Kathleen Green (my real first name, but not last name)
To get a flavour about FATCA in France, perhaps some French speakers would like to watch this debate posted on YouTube debated in the French Senate and comment.
@Whitecat. I was not going to “out” the alias. Good job.
Here’s another connected video of FATCA in France.
This story seems to have been picked up by the English-language Shanghai Daily (subscription publication).
Thank you to those who tried to contact Doug Todd. He mentioned hearing from others with a story similar to mine. The column got published very quickly. I thought it was helpful to get more coverage, especially in the Vancouver Sun.
The paraphrase on my mailing in a relinquishment application was a columnist error. I have emailed him with the correction. I made an appointment and went in to the US Consulate in Vancouver for relinquishment in person. The Consulate sent on my papers to Washington for decision and approval. My case was complicated by US passport use after becoming a Canadian citizen and change in staff at the consulate.
In general, I was pleased with the article, especially in comparison with previous publications on FATCA by this paper.
It is a monumental job for anyone other than those going through this to get the complex story of expatriation from U.S. citizenship absolutely correct. (I remember how long it took me to understand it all — my learning curve when there was no Isaac Brock Society or Maple Sandbox quite lengthy.)
Journalist or *US Person Abroad*, why would anyone believe the absurdity of the whole process to cut the chains of U.S. citizenship when their own country’s process is, comparatively, so straightforward.
Thanks again, PatCanadian, and to Douglas Todd for writing a fairer view than Vancouver Sun’s U.S. and Canadian Conservative government apologist, Don Cayo, of what has happened to the rights of *US Persons* in Canada!
Thank you for doing the interview, PatCanadian. Yes, you’re right Calgary411, the situation is very complex. I remember when James Fitz-Morris from the CBC assumed that the Canada IGA exempted certain accounts for US taxation because Canadian banks do not have to report them – and he’d been following the story closely. We set him straight PDQ.
The truth is incomprehensible to most people, so it comes as no surprise to me that people are skeptical of our claims, but a reporter who’s supposed to have all the facts should either retract or correct any inaccuracies as soon as they are known to them.
Perception, and presumption are everything, and when reading an article, this is usually set in the readers mind early on. One of the beginning comments is: “About a million people in Canada hold an American passport…”
The problem with a statement like this, is that it makes the reader think that those 1 million people are Americans living in Canada, but having one foot in the USA. Many, if not most, of those one million people deemed ‘US persons’ by the USA do not hold US passports and never have. Most of us are Canadian citizens and many think of ourselves only as Canadian regardless what USA calls us.
Some of us were born in USA while our Canadian parents worked in USA temporarily. Many of us did not even know that USA considered us to be Americans. For example, even if you were born in Canada, but have one American parent, you may be considered to be a US citizen.
A big problem that Canadians tainted with ‘US personhood’ are having right now, is explaining to our fellow Canadians that we are first and foremost Canadian citizens. The Canadian government in its attempts to justify sending our private banking information to the IRS, continues to refer to us as ‘Americans living in Canada’, or if we are really lucky as, dual American-Canadian citizens (with the emphasis on American), but never just as Canadians.
Many of us consider ourselves ‘Canadians with clinging US nationality’ (thank you George for this) – kind of like gum stuck on the bottom of our shoes that we cannot easily get rid of.
I like to think of it as something stinkier than gum stuck to my shoe, WhiteKat.
You’re right, framing is everything. In many of the cases, the US is making the claim that certain Canadians are US persons, when in fact they aren’t even US citizens, let alone carry a US passport. We are Canadians, not US passport holders abiding in Canada!
I found Mr Todd’s Twitter handle:
@DouglasTodd
Calls himself “Spirituality and diversity columnist / Vancouver Sun newspaper / Editor, Cascadia: The Elusive Utopia”
Someone should explain to Mr. Todd that FATCA = Foreign Attack To Control All, making his “Elusive Utopia” nothing but a pipe dream.
@WhiteKat
Or, FATCA and CBT: creators of the American Dystopia.
The comments on the Vancouver Sun article show some misconception and opposition by some posters. Can we learn along the way? Can we categorise typical misconception and opposition, then develop the best arguments?
I see trying to advance the case of the accidental American and how they get caught in the US tax and compliance laws. Is this the best argument? It appears that this highlights the severe injustice of it all. Also injustice: those who thought they were no longer American, now considered American. Is this why this is advanced so much on this website? Are there some statistics of Canadian USP that we might tap into and support the argument?
Another injustice is the changing of the US laws.