Worry and concern but no actual statement on what the Liberals will do (or would have done) about the FATCA IGA implementation in Canada.
From: Alex Lysyshyn
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:39 AM
To: Caroltapanila
Subject: Re: Re: Leaders lead. You make it happen.< ... Be part of the change | Faites partie du changement ... Alex Lysys Alex Lysyshyn (Liberal / Assistance) 23 Jul 12:39 Dear Carol, Thank you for taking the time to write to us regarding the implications the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) has on some Canadians. As you may know, in February of this year the Government of Canada entered into an intergovernmental agreement with the U.S. regarding FATCA requirements. Under these rules the Canada Revenue Agency will collect tax information on Canadians who are U.S. citizens and then hand that information over to the IRS. Before the agreement which came into effect on July 1, the Liberal Party of Canada raised the issue in Question Period, pressing the Conservative government to do the right thing for Canadians. We believe that the Government of Canada should stand up for honest, hardworking people who have been caught up by overly complex American tax rules. They are not tax cheats and we encouraged Stephen Harper to stand up for them. We have concerns that the agreement reached with the U.S. may not stand up to a Constitutional challenge given that it forces the banks to treat clients differently based on their national origin, something forbidden by Section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Liberals believe Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird should have asked the U.S. for amnesty against penalties as the IRS’s Foreign Bank Account Reporting requirements were not adequately communicated to dual-citizens living in Canada. In addition, we encouraged Finance Minister Joe Oliver to work to amend the agreement so that the IRS would not tax savings vehicles such as TFSAs and RESPs. We were pleased to learn these registered plans have since been exempted from reporting by the banks but continue to worry that the IRS may view them as taxable when dual citizens file their returns. For more information on how FATCA affects Canadians, you can visit the Department of Finance website at: http://www.fin.gc.ca/n14/14-018-eng.asp Thank you again for writing. Kind regards, Alex Lysyshyn Liberal Party of Canada Tell us about what issues you care about | Dites-nous quels enjeux vous tiennent à coeur 81 rue Metcalfe Street, Suite / Bureau 600 Ottawa, ON K1P 6M8 Telephone / Téléphone: 1 888 LIBERAL (1 888 542-3725) Email / Courriel : assistance@liberal.ca Follow us on / Suivez-nous sur: Liberal.ca | Facebook | Twitter Get updates | Mises à jour
You want Justin on the record? You are going to have confront him in person.
He is going to be in Edmonton in August. If fact, the entire Liberal Caucus will be there to meet and several are staying behind for events in the days following. Chyrstia Freeland being one of them – and she is another one you’d want to confront in person too because she is very much in love with the US position on taxing expats and as she lived there for many year, she too might be impacted by FATCA and CBT.
I won’t be around for the Liberal Caucus, which is too bad b/c I actually would have some access if I was, but if you want, I can email you specifics when I get them.
Justin will be in Vancouver Aug 4. I think you can sign up for a free BBQ with him at the link below. I am going but might be late, and I do not know if he can eat FATCA that day.
Date: Monday, August 4 (BC DAY!)
Time: 12 PM
Location: Douglas Park, Vancouver (Corner of Heather and 22nd)
If you can make it this August 4th holiday Monday, please click on the following link to register: lpc.ca/bcdaybbq
“……………..We have concerns that the agreement reached with the U.S. may not stand up to a Constitutional challenge given that it forces the banks to treat clients differently based on their national origin, something forbidden by Section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms…….”………….
We can’t pay the lawyer on ‘concerns’. Show us the money Justin – fund the constitutional/legal challenge, or bring some other similar challenge – instead of forcing average Canadians to do it. You’re the head of a party that hopes to govern Canada. If you see a wrong, what can you do to right it?
Words won’t pay the legal fees.
This response indicates how little these people understand about the real issue – that is how U.S. tax rules incapacitate “every day” Canadians and their families from having any normal life.
I am discouraged and disgusted by it.
@calgary411
I think he is very clear on what the Liberals will or would have done: nothing. The statement that makes his intentions clear is:
“We have concerns that the agreement reached with the U.S. may not stand up to a Constitutional challenge given that it forces the banks to treat clients differently based on their national origin, something forbidden by Section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”
In other words he expects us to do something–namely the court challenge–but he isn’t going to do anything himself to help.
To me the difference between the Libs/NDP and the Cons is mostly symbolic. The Libs/NDP won’t lift a finger to help whereas the Cons will actively show us the middle finger.
Obviously this guy doesn’t appreciate we’re only in FATCA 1.
How about with FATCA 2 the US re-defines the definition of ‘US Indicia’ and demands more detailed data (what I call the FATCA Data Set), and he wakes up one day and finds his data was sent off to the IRS.
Also I believe with FATCA 2 the IRS will not simply want raw data, but get the banks to start data-mining it from them as well. So in effect the banks will hand the IRS a ‘prospect list.’
Why this concept matters?
A Canadian woman goes to the US to visit her sister. She decides on a good long catch up and stays 190 days in total over the course of 2 trips. While during the trip the IRS changes the FATCA Data Set and can now produce a list of Canadians who have spent over 6 months for that year by simply checking use of her ATM card for US withdrawals.
Some people will say this is science fiction, but so was 9/11 until the World Trade towers came tumbling down.,
FATCA affects everyone, not just Americans.
Don, Canada is already handing over border crossing info so the USG doesn’t need to track us via ATM’s or even credit card use – although they will b/c, imo, this is about asset tracking more than cross-checking for tax purposes. However, knowing where we are using ATM’s and credit cards can help the USG figure out who in the US we are interacting with, where and when.
It boils down to their obsession with data collection. And I think you are on to something in terms of things that aren’t illegal now becoming so in the future and than retroactively applied. Yeah, crazy except that the USG retroactively applies law all the time.
I don’t think anyone who isn’t currently being targeted by FATCA or CBT has all the facts or can wrap their minds around the future implications.
Trudeau is like many Canadians. He simply can’t conceive of a USG that would knowingly target and harm its own citizens. Naive? Oh yeah. But common – imo.
We are all niaeve if we think that any party in Canada would not do the same as the Conservative government did to us.
They ALL will do what the banks want and the other parties leaders are complicit. I won’t say some members of the NDP are not clearly cognizant of the ramifications for they were very supportive and helpful in forming amendments to protect Canadians and Residents. But the parties and the leaders are all on board with this banking extortion and theft because they do not exist without the financial support of certain entities. If the Conservatives are behaving as they are you can bet your bottom dollar the others would do the exact same thing.
@Yoga Girl – I really have questioned myself what message has to be broadcasted to get the FATCA message across and get people to understand that FATCA really affects everyone.
The public seem to have a unique ability to ignore a messages. If ‘Arbeit Macht Frei,’ doesn’t make people wonder, and try to connect the dots, I don’t know what will. Or in the UK, they put ‘Smoking Kills’ along with graphics on cigarette packs.
There must be a marketing expert somewhere that can make this message understandable.
if the conservatives who abstained from voting followed their conscience and voted against FATCA, instead of pairing off with opposition members, and if all opposition members voted against implementing FATCA, we would be in the midst of a federal election. The opposition campaigning against FATCA will have the same result as the Liberal campaign against the GST. The charter challenge is our best and only hope
Justin refuses to lead at least 3% of Canada’s population and their families. He’s passing up a tremendous opportunity to capture our votes here. Even if he would have done the same as Harper did, there’s an opportunity now to get come political capital out of condemning Harper for it. Why isn’t he?
Thanks, YogaGirl.
As you know, I did confront Justin Trudeau at his Okotoks meet and greet. He had a dismal response. Is there anyone else that would be part of the Liberal Caucus that could ask our questions? (I would not be one going to a Liberal Caucus either.)
I have taken the liberty of parts of various comments to this post to help me in my reply to the Liberal email that words, rhetoric and talking points aren’t enough. We need to have action — this issue understood and taken on, not the condescending claptrap that Liberals are worried and concerned by what the Conservatives have done. Thank you for your help.
Calgary 411, at this point, I only know the dates they will be here and no agenda or schedule. I don’t know who is staying behind after or what they’re agenda is (though my guess is that it has something to do with the riding nominations because many of them up here are schedule for the early fall – so meeting with potential candidates and door knocking in ridings were Liberals have a chance to increase turnout. Frankly, there are probably no winnable ridings up here for them though I wouldn’t be surprise to see the NDP pick up a couple. Anyone with progressive leanings tends to be NDP or Green in the greater Edm area. Justin is still a curiousity.)
At a meet/greet, you’ve got no chance but catch him out canvassing? Different story. Now that FATCA is rolling out, it would be good to enlighten any Liberal (or NDP) MP about the way the banks are not really following the reporting rules as the CRA interprets them. The CRA is not expecting banks to act as Immigration officers and has really given them tremendous power to do as little searching as possible through existing customers and yet we’ve seen already that banks are likely to overreach this mandate. That’s troubling b/c it makes it more likely that Canadians who are not USP’s to also have their info inadvertently reported. Also good to stress the lack of redress for mistakes, which will also impact Canadians only too,
It’s irritating to have to approach MPs with this “but it hurts Canadians too” stuff when it really shouldn’t matter given the Charter breaches for duals and residents, but that is likely our best approach right now. Trudeau might be able to brush off residents and even duals but he is going to have a harder time justifying throwing Canadians only into the IRS dragnet and it would be great to capture him on video if anyone was to get him into a conversation.
I will email you when I find out dates, times, events and opportunities and you can decide what to pass on – here – or via private messages.
I think Don though is right. There has to be a simple message this can be broken down to and shared.
Just thought I’d have some fun with Google Translator.
FATCA affects everyone, not just Americans.
FATCA touche tout le monde, pas seulement les Américains.
FATCA betrifft alle, nicht nur Amerikaner.
FATCA afecta a todos, no sólo los estadounidenses.
FATCA يؤثر على الجميع، وليس فقط الأميركيين.
FATCA ovlivňuje každého, nejen Američané.
FATCA raakt iedereen, niet alleen Amerikanen.
FATCA επηρεάζει τους πάντες, όχι μόνο τους Αμερικανούς.
FATCAだけではなく、アメリカ人、すべての人に影響を与えます
FATCA影响着每一个人，不只是美国人。
FATCA effeithio ar bawb, nid dim ond Americanwyr.
FATCA drabbar alla, inte bara amerikaner.
FATCA difear do gach duine, ní hamháin Meiriceánaigh.
FATCA ảnh hưởng đến tất cả mọi người, không chỉ người Mỹ.
FATCA afeta a todos, não apenas os norte-americanos.
FATCA prek të gjithë, jo vetëm amerikanët.
I’ll be in Edmonton for the month of August although I will have no access to internet.I’d be interested in knowing his whereabouts.
At the “Meet in Greet with Justin Trudeau” in Okotoks, he was asked for his position on Israel, he replied that he supports Israel. Interesting to read in this article how Iran’s Press views Canada.
“Canada and its ‘out and out Zionist’ prime minister have become the latest target of Iran’s Press TV”
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/18/canada-Iran-press-tv/
@YogaGirl and Don
I often think about how this fight is being fought by so many former Americans – people who are essentially are out of danger from the reaches of the IRS, yet know the damage that FATCA’s causing Canada as a whole. Opposing FATCA would not be considered an act of self-preservation for them, at least not in the sense many Canadians might think. So why do they care, Canada?
P.S. to bubblebustin thoughts:
Perhaps so many people in this FATCA fight who have already resolved their own situations have more concern about their country than their government representatives who should be protecting Canada (and other countries) and ALL of the people of Canada and other countries.
@Calgary411
Exactly. So how do we convey this concern in a meaningful way to other Canadians who don’t/won’t see what’s happening to Canada? The majority obviously don’t see it as their problem. How do we make it their problem?
every dollar that leaves Canada because of FATCA diminishes our tax base, future GDP growth and ability to fund our social services. This is true whether directly in taxes to the US or indirectly in payments to US based tax preparers or investments in the US. This money will NEVER return to Canada, and will used to fund US policies inimical to Canada
@Sid, I will make info available when I have it. All I know now is that it is the week of the 18th, that all the Liberal caucus (MPs and Justin) will be attending and that some of the MPs will remain for events following. Rallies, meet and greets or canvassing is likely and most probably in places that are NDP strong like Edmonton Centre, for example.
I think Freeland is our best bet b/c this impacts her and her family given the number of years she lived and worked in the US and she is clearly pro-American and has a profile down there b/c she still writes for outlets like the NYTimes.
@All, yes, many of us will be out of this in terms of being Canadian citizens only but some of us have children still ensnared b/c they are disabled or minors and we have US family and friends who tether us in ways that can still put us at risk from being “recaptured” in terms of trusts, estates, time spent “in country”.
The way I see it, we are somewhat like the conductors on the Underground Railroad. We aren’t necessarily in danger but helping is the right thing to do.
BC DAY PANIC.
I was afraid this would morph into some kind of demonstration at the picnic where Justin does not eat that FATca burger. Instead it is some type of philosophic discussion. It would be nice to have some of us there. You can sign up for free FATca burgers at lpc.ca/bcdaybbq
Kermit
Latest from the Liberals re Edmonton:
Justin was in Vancouver yesterday and this article has nothing of substance. Its all “pre-campaign”.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Trudeau+shows+balancing+babies+during+campaign+stop/10089419/story.html
kermitzii, thanks for the update.
Calgary411, a rally is pretty tightly controlled. People gather. He shows up. Gives a speech and shakes hands as he leaves. The park where this is being held is on the river. Parking isn’t great. Low expectations should be held for getting to talk to him though the media will probably show up, so people protesting might get some notice.
He is in Edmonton for three days for the caucus. There will be other events but my feeling is that our area is not going to get the same sort of “Justin on the ground and mingling” stuff that Calgary and Vancouver get. Maybe because the city itself leans NDP where it is liberal at all? But in this respect, Trudeau is no different than Harper or even Mulcair. Edmonton just doesn’t matter to any of them because though there are a lot of oil related industries here, the corporate headquarters are in Calgary or the US. We are just a city full of working people. Politicians are the least interested in places full of people like us.
After the caucus, Brison and Hsu are supposedly heading down to Calgary. Freeland is staying in Edm. With someone else but I don’t remember who.
I got the email too. But I am not around then, so I deleted it. It’s a mass mailer that anyone whose a member or “supporter” gets. If I should hear of smaller events via the ridings, I will send you an email.
Thanks, YogaGirl.
I got it the same way you did. I won’t be travelling to Edmonton for this. I think Sid was going to be in Edmonton then so might attend. I’m still waiting for the new Liberal candidate for my now new riding, Calgary Confederation, to get back to me after I talked to him at a Yahoo (Dr. David Swann’s) Calgary Stampede Breakfast. He seemed interested as he shook my hand and the hand of many others there, but I haven’t yet heard back from Matt Grant yet: https://www.ourconfederation.ca/. I’ve sent him two reminders and I’m not holding my breath.