It seems a convergence is about to transpire; the IGA will soon pass, FATCA is 10 days away and the IRS’ recent “easing-up” on penalties. I started wondering just how much of that “easing-up” has to do with our efforts, and what a great PR move the IRS just made, etc. Will it really make a difference and so on…..
I think now is a good time for all of us to sit back, take a breath and look at where we were, where we are, and where we would like to be moving towards. I am particularly interested in the less-than-obvious observations Brockers and Sandboxers have about what has contributed to any one of those stages.
Someone at the IRS just made a brilliant move. As if it hasn’t been hard enough to get everyone to listen, i.e., friends, families, media, CDN govt, IRS and the Congress, it will now become a lot harder. Imagine how many times we are going to hear “What are you complaining about, no penalties to be afraid of, etc etc. Not much progress seems to have been made in putting a dent in the misconception that Americans abroad are not the same as Homelanders stashing money in tax havens. In spite of the enormous amount of time Brockers and Sandboxers have put into responding to endless articles and putting up with endless abuse from those who either do not know how to read or cannot think outside the cliché box or else just enjoy being unkind.
What about all the time and energy put into researching, trying to get questions answered without the bias of the compliance industry, govt etc. I was recently cautioned/reminded about the fact that no one should advise anyone to break the law. I still do not see anyone here doing that; we are looking at what options are there and sharing that information. Back to Expat Forum days, Ladyhawk’s amazing post Why I Will Not Renounce”. The “mass” renunciation meeting in October 2011. The horror of seeing OVDP morph into OVDI; Shulman’s refusal to acknowledge Nina Olson’s TAD. Actually renouncing. Watching Mona Lisa do a complete 180 turn as the reality of this miserable mess forced her to do what she absolutely felt was wrong for her to do……..
So much effort and participation…the protests, the Information Sessions, the We Are Not a Myth Campaign, appearances in front of FINA, the list goes on and on. I find this aspect to be truly inspiring and amazing, that we have managed to come together and hopefully, have made a difference.
I guess what I am saying/asking is:
What moments/events are the most memorable for you?
Which ones have made you the most angry?
Which have given you hope?
Do you think we have played a part in the change of IRS’ direction?
Do you think we have been able to help people?
What kind of direction should we be looking at?
and whatever other questions come up………….
Of course we will continue with the Charter Challenge. Of course we will continue to argue that Accidentals should not have to waste money to become compliant so that they can renounce. And that CBT needs to be abolished. I just wonder how all of you may be feeling/thinking before the next wave hits.
Sorry … delete my last sentence! I decided to go ahead and make an inquiry. Can’t hurt.
My email to the UN High Commissioner’s office just got returned undeliverable. Something about “too many hops” whatever that means! Does someone else want to try it from a different server? The address obviously didn’t like mine. This is quite frustrating!
@MuzzledNoMore
With the comments section being wonky I can not return to your original post to see what you sent and to whom. I will try to resend if I can find the info you posted.
There are a gazillion sites offering free legal and procedural assistance. For one check out: http://www.humanrightsdefence.org/index.php/seek-help.html We could try a fact finding mission with one of these to see if our position is relevant to them.
I am so on board for doing this. Will help in anyway I can. What are the prevailing thoughts from other Brockers?
@Muzzled
Found your info, sent a request, seems to have gone through. Lets see what comes.
Thanks, Muzzled No More and Charl.
I am busy this morning, but will consider getting into this later today re a complaint for those like my son’s situation.
@Em,
I really like this:
“…What I would do is heap scorn on all the FATCA capitulating countries by issuing them all a CLS — Certificate of Loss of Sovereignty. Canada would be given Certificate Number One. ”
We could issue it to Harper, or to each and every one of the MPs who voted for the FATCA IGA legislation.
Sounds like a good piece of protest theatre. Something like the equivalent of burning draft cards or US passports is also good. Still haven’t given up on the idea of a Raging Grannies type of action.
And also re protest theatre; public attention needs to be drawn to the > 400 pages of anti-FATCA comments sent by Canadians to the Finance Department, which Lynne was only recently able to obtain via a FOI:
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/here-is-what-canadians-said-on-fatca-iga-the-cons-didnt-listen/comment-page-1/ . See her comments on the timing and that those passing the FATCA IGA legislation never saw those comments that the Finance Department pretended they were going to consider. Also the heavily redacted documents Lynne obtained re what reports, meetings, etc. the federal government had generated re the FATCA IGA, the cost/benefit of implementation in Canada (or absence of any such analysis), any opinion from the Justice Dept re constitutionality, etc. (can’t find the link to those documents quickly).
I can’t believe that the Canadian media is able and willing to ignore the rich treasure trove of primary source materials that have now been amassed on this. Are there no investigative journalists who want to take advantage of all the background work already done for them? Are the FOI materials not intriguing? Doesn’t this tie neatly into all the other egregious attacks by the Harper Conservatives on Charter and Constitutional rights in Canada?
I have been asked to post this and put it here because it speaks to state of mind etc.
‘Today I went to a parade and carnival on Vancouver’s wealthy west side. While walking around the booths my eyes caught a name badge on a man with a Scotia Bank shirt on. Out of curiosity I walked up to him to read it and it said “Vice President”. I asked him if he was Vice President of Scotia Bank and he said yes, the BC division. I asked him if Scotiabank is a Canadian bank and he said yes and then asked him why they are turning their customers over to the IRS under FATCA and he said he is following regulations. I asked him whose regulations? He replied “the financial regulators” and I asked “US financial regulators”? and then accused him of allowing the US to persecute Canadians and asked why the banks don’t just say no to the IRS and again he repeated he is following financial regulations. He was standing next to a lady who looked a bit shocked at the way the conversation was escalating in tone. He said “Look I’m here to enjoy the Fiesta with my family” as if to ask me to respect the occasion and back away. I replied, look I’m in Canada to enjoy my life as other Canadians do and not have scum like you trying to ruin my life. Finally in an in your face stance, face to face (1 foot away), I looked him right in the eyes and yelled “F-YOU” and walked calmly away.
I know you are all going to be very proud of me that I took this opportunity. It isn’t every day one even gets to meet the trash at the very top of the bankster echelons. Yay me!!!’
Yeah, just following orders. He’s more deserving of janitor’s job, not VP!
@Tricia
Although I am usually for behaving like a lady…..GOOD FOR YOU.
I wonder what would happen if more of these people personally felt how enraged we are. It is so easy to hide behind papers.
As we’ve tried to reason and stand up for our Canadian rights guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Tricia, they’ve been saying “F-YOU” to us for sometime. Especially the Conservative government and all who negotiated behind closed doors with the U.S. to the victims of this U.S. law coming into Canada, while fully engaging the banking industry.
A few bystanders won’t forget your conversation, then calmly walking away from the bankster V.P. — excusing himself and his bank for following U.S. regulations.
@ Tricia
So proud of you … so proud. YAY!!!
Although I am glad he was confronted, it won’t make a difference.
Unless and until they are personally affected or made to be personally responsible for the ruination of an individual and/or family nothing concrete will happen.
Within the IGA is another out for these people: Third party ‘snitches’ and spies who will gather the information the banks are not comfortable gathering and report to the bank and report to whoever needs reported to in order to snare their victims.
Nazi’s had it down to a science with great success and this is fashioned after them in every detail. Nobody who actually is responsible for the destruction has to pay for his/her sins. ‘They were just following orders.’ ‘They were just “following regulations”.
The end result is the same: someone is given up to personal destruction. Financial and personal and no one is called to account, in fact NO one IS accountable.
UNTIL the forces of right becomes the forces of MIGHT and FORCES retribution.
In WW11 we had Allied forces, American, Canadian , British, Australian et al sacrifice mightily for our individual rights.
That was an incredible and terrible sacrifice to restore freedom with over 60 million people losing their very lives for these rights.
And now, those who were the heroes are the very ones who are the architects of the destruction of not millions but billions.
Why?
From whence cometh our help: Will it be James Bopp? Will it be the Charter Challenge ( which will take years and millions of dollars with many victims in the interim).
WHAT will it be that takes this beast down?
Who is our David to this FATCA Goliath?
WHERE is our Granny to slap Brian Mulroney’s face on national television.
This incident was a good one and close but lacked national coverage.
What ONE thing will turn this around and restore lives to the freedom they deserve and are entitled to?
Charl: Thank you so much for doing that! Glad your message got through; I can’t wait for the info to get back to us.
I suspect the High Commissioner’s Office at the UN is quite busy today. I watched CBC NewsChannel while I was baking muffins this morning and heard about the conviction of the journalists in Egypt. The nations of the world are expressing outrage at the Egyptian legal system and urging the Egyptian government to issue the journalists a pardon. I hope they succeed, but pity they can’t be bothered to express outrage at the American tax system and urge the American government to issue *us* a pardon! (Actually, I’d like an apology!)
Calgary: I think a complaint with your son’s situation as one of the salient examples of everything that’s wrong with the American diaspora tax would be so fantastic to pursue!
The 23 June 2014 initiative of Tricia Moon goes down in Brock history as the first recorded instance of direct action against Ugly Sam’s extraterritorial presumptions against U.S. persons, and the compliance compradors who lick U.S. boots. No prissy tippytoeing along the edge of an illegitimate curb. No cop-friendly asking for permission to display a sign in Ottawa. Only one bold person required. The freedom to yell is the essence of freedom to speak. Exercise it. Power hates confrontation. Confrontation exposes. Rip off the yellow stars. Overturn the cattle cars. Become an ever-present source of dread to all oppressors. Disrupt at every opportunity.
@Tricia;
I like the line:
“I replied, look I’m in Canada to enjoy my life as other Canadians do and not have scum like you trying to ruin my life.”
FATCAllaborationist Banksters apparently think they shouldn’t have to answer for what they have done to betray ordinary people and their legal local family savings in Canada, via the underhanded behind the scenes skulking tactics of the CBA and their investment kin who lobbied to undermine Canadian sovereignty and the wellbeing of their fellows in Canada, foisting the compliance costs and repercussions down the line on to Canadian accountholders and taxpayers – and they apparently truly believe that no FATCAchickens will come home to roost, leaving egg or worse on face. What do they think is going to happen after July 1st?
Who me the Scotiabankster says? We were only doing the expedient profit seeking thing, and it was only good business to betray our fellow Canadians and make accountholders and Canadian families pay for FATCA so we could get on with more important things – like investing in the US and expanding our US interests.
@All
Oops, i did not make this clear. I am NOT the person who spoke to the Scotiabank bankster. I was asked to post this for someone else. I would like to reveal the identity but will ask first.
Perhaps you would like to guess?
@Patricia Moon
Accolades who confronted the Scotia VP. So few do not speak out. It is time now to.
usxcanada
It’s infinitely more subtle, but those who’ve moved their money from banks to credit unions have also taken direct action.
@ Tricia
Oh, I thought you had posted your experience somewhere else and someone asked you to post it here. It sounded like it could be you. You are a feisty one too. Yay for whoever it was. I should have clued in with the mention of Vancouver but I thought you could be on vacation there.
@usxcanada
I have money in Northern Credit Union. The rep I deal with says the are “still working” on what will happen. She was told they are under the compliant rules. Soooo.
She has a copy of my CLN. I just asked her for something in writing to confirm that it was received and that I am recognized as ONLY a Canadian citizen.
I know someone who just presented an information session in Vancouver??
@Em & All,
Thanks – i may be a bit feisty but this is not my style. At least not in public.
Sorry to disappoint!
Have asked the person and does not wish to be identified.
In future, will try to word things like this better so as to avoid confusion.
@calgary
good guess but nope………
I do think I know, but see we won’t know as that person does not want to be identified. I can respect that.