Pretty clear that the USA is Canada’s new enemy. Canada could protect itself from the USA with our latest “pea shooter” military. The USA knows this and will take Canada a little bit at a time and make it look legal…..
“What the Conservatives didn’t have to do was essentially embed foreign legislation into their budget bill.
It should have instead subjected this international agreement to proper debate regarding privacy concerns, instead of allowing it to cruise under the radar as part of an omnibus bill. The Conservatives have likely set themselves up for the courts to again ultimately decide on the constitutionality of this move.
Canadian financial institutions must begin handing over information by July 1, a Canada Day repudiation of our own sovereignty.”
Refreshingly astute. Good to see the mainstream catching on.
Finally a good article that many Canadians will see. It might have been better, however, if Tim Harper had at least mentioned U.S. citizenship-based taxation versus the residence-based taxation that all (but one) other countries use. I doubt that most Canadians and U.S.ers know about that, and that that is the real reason behind FATCA.
I know this is an off the wall comment but I have been trying to think who else could get FATCA into mainstream media attention, These are out of the box suggestions: Conrad Black is not enamoured of the US government and would probably be happy to tear a strip off FATCA and the invasion of privacy issue if he were asked to write an article. Ditto the Fraser Institute (I hold my nose) but anything that smacks of government interference with financial institutions should be an anathema to them. We need hard core attacks in the media to continue to educate the public both of the far left, far right and centrist positions.
Has anyone written to Justin Trudeau telling him that if he doesn’t get with it, the NDP is stealing the show and his votes?
This is me in desperation mode….
The big problem I see is that when WE sue them for damages, how do we PROVE the CRA/IRS handed over our information?
No responses to my communications from either Justin Trudeau or the Fraser Institute. And, I answer each Liberal communication I get asking for donations or attending the next Calgary area function, some of which I and others here have attended anyway to discuss this. Perhaps others have gotten a better response?
wishin the author’s first name was steve not tim
I am having FATCA burnout, but hope somebody else will respond to this comment:
Charlieman says,
I see nothing wrong with the CRA and IRS sharing information to catch tax evaders. Both agencies use very strict secrecy procedures that will protect the privacy of those effected. Concerns about “sovereignty” are overblown and not significant to me in this case.
“Ottawa doesn’t set U.S. legislation, he says.”
“Washington sets Canadian legislation”, he didn’t say.
“Ottawa doesn’t set U.S. legislation”
No – it just gives it teeth.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on FATCA being to capture US ex-pats. FATCA is to catch US residents with ‘hidden’ foreign bank accounts. As it wasn’t thought through very well (mainly due to CBT), the side effect is ex-pats get caught in the legislation and the draconian fines that are meant to hurt the aimed at US residents with ‘hidden’ foreign bank accounts. Because of CBT, all US citizens are caught, instead of just the US residents.
If enough countries would simply grow a pair and tell the Marxists in the U.S. Congress and White House
To shove FATCA and FBAR where the Sun doesn’t shine, they wouldn’t have enough power economically to enforce their Marxist ideas upon the world, however the Marxist in your country and many others have lied their way into politics and have the power to trade your freedoms for something for themselves.
The Obama machine collected several billion dollars from Marxists all over the world and distributed some to get re elected here and the rest to politicians in other countries to support their Marxist ideas.
All this to the peril of personal freedom. Personal freedom was the only thing we had that was unique and when he was elected he vowed to make us ordinary and with the help of other governments he has done just that. Martial law will be next when he withdraws the benefits the 50 million takers have become used to.
He has fired all the patriotic Generals and appointed a new batch who said in their interviews that they could order their troops to fire on American citizens.
Perhaps there are some retired Generals who could muster an army of retire and aged soldiers do do as Jefferson said. “Liberty has to be renewed periodically with the blood of tyrants and the blood of patriots”.
@MarkM, you say: ” FATCA is to catch US residents with ‘hidden’ foreign bank accounts. As it wasn’t thought through very well (mainly due to CBT), the side effect is ex-pats get caught in the legislation …”
If that were true, the U.S. could fix the legislation so it would apply to US residents only. Whether it was a “side effect” or the actual intention, the fact is that millions of US ex-pats are now targets of the FATCA dragnet.
AnonAnon and MarkM,
That the US does not right the wrong of FATCA damage to US Persons Abroad if the intent is to go after US residents who hide their assets abroad shows they realize the cash cow it will be for the US. They absolutely realize that RBT would go after those resident in the US that they say this is for. Moral decay, hypocrisy and punitive action at its finest.
@WhiteKat
Gordie N Ott tried repeatedly to reply to it, but kept getting the following error message “There was a problem processing your request. Please try again in a moment.” As Gordie N Ott had too much to do today, he could not wrestle with the Star’s comments all day. Had he been able to post the reply to @Charlieman, here is what it would have said:
@Charlieman
No one I know has a problem “with the CRA and IRS sharing information to catch tax evaders”. That is a false premise and not what this is about. I am not a tax evader. Back in the 1950’s, when the US was a decent neighbour, my parents crossed the border to the nearest medical facility where I was born. I have never lived, worked or voted in the US and I do my banking here in Canada where I live and work. Why should my financial information be provided to the IRS? The police cannot go to the bank and, without a warrant, request the banking information on all the residents of a certain neighbourhood because it is known drugs are sold there. That is a classic “fishing expedition” and a violation of Charter protections against unlawful search and seizure. Drug dealers are protected against unlawful search and seizure, but in Stephen Harper’s Canada people whose only crime is their place of birth have no such protections.
Your assertion that the IRS uses “very strict secrecy procedures that will protect the privacy of those effected” is beyond ludicrous. The IRS is, for all intents and purposes, a criminal organization. Pages could be filled with examples to prove this. I will only say “Lois Lerner” and “Fifth Amendment” to not belabour the point. Once the Canadian government turns over the financial records of its own citizens to this gang, they have no control over where it goes or what is done with it.
I believe the overblown “sovereignty” concerns you refer to may have to do with the fact that the US is forcing Canada to enact a law that Canada does not want and does not get reciprocity. Canada has now shown the extortionist that it is an easy mark under our current weak federal government – expect the extortionist to come back often with new demands. The late Jim Flaherty stated, “FATCA has far-reaching extraterritorial implications, as it would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.” Canada has sacrificed sovereignty by giving in to the demands of the bully to our south.
It pains me, as a life long Conservative voter, to see an alleged Conservative government do this. Next election, I am a one issue voter and the NDP is the only party (save Green) that is standing on guard for Canada on this issue (it hurts me to say that too). I am also a little tired of MP Gerald Keddy referring to me as a US person in Canada and of MP Mike Allen’s position that there is nothing the Canadian government can do because, “Congress has spoken”.
I keep wondering why it isn’t made clear as day that the IRS demands are ruinous? That the penalties are draconian and costing people their lifetime savings. How can a homelander “get it” if they just think this is about catching tax cheats and them paying the “FAIR” share? How can they get that it is NOT fair?!!!
There’s an unfortunate falsehood in this otherwise good article….”Ottawa also won exemptions for a number of accounts such as RRSPs, TFSAs and disability savings plans. It also exempts small accounts.”
Even Roy Berg plainly says Ottawa negotiated nothing special. The reporting exemptions were options within the IGA model available to all countries.
I’m glad the author framed the issue as the Con’s attempting to legalize discrimination, and not merely a Canada-US issue. Also his comment about information forwarded to both the CRA and IRS as being “double jeopardy” nails it. Why should the CRA itself have more information on me than it has on any other Canadian? I was happy that Professor Cockfield also mentioned this in his testimony with the Standing Committee on Finance. That alone should be enough to stop the IGA.
Good article with some minor flaws. Twitterers…
note the account. @nutgraf1 You might tweet him a thnx.
Mark Milke is a senior fellow with the Fraser Institute and has a regular column in several newspapers across Canada. I’ve written to him asking him to cover FATCA a couple of times. Maybe if you and other did the same, he might consider it. I emailed him through the Fraser Institute here:
Your comment is awesome, as per usual, but too long to be accepted (exceeds word limitation by about 800 words).
@CanadianCop,
I took your comment, split it into two parts and posted on your behalf. I hope that’s OK.
@All,
To everyone who is making really good points here (Shovel, Polly, AnonAnon, etc) perhaps you might want to cut and paste them at the TO Star article as well.
OK, thought I would wake up and add my own comment to the mix….some of the commenters are pissing me off:
@7thGenCdn
Taxation based on birthplace, regardless of residence (which is what USA laws dictate – an anomaly in the world), is a modern day form of slavery. Physical slavery was once legal in the USA. FATCA is revealing USA’s dirty little secret: citizenship based taxation where citizenship is bestowed not based on social or economic connection, but on an accident of birth.
As Martin Luther King once said:
“I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law.”
Excellent article that, despite one or two inaccuracies, pulled no punches telling it like it is. And yes, an awesome comment, indeed, from Canadian Cop that also tells it like it is.
In his third paragraph Tim Harper gives the government’s hoped-for timeline for passage of the omnibus bill containing the FATCA-implementation provisions. It’s the first I’ve seen this. They want it passed within the next four weeks, apparently.
Pretty clear that the USA is Canada’s new enemy. Canada could protect itself from the USA with our latest “pea shooter” military. The USA knows this and will take Canada a little bit at a time and make it look legal…..
“What the Conservatives didn’t have to do was essentially embed foreign legislation into their budget bill.
It should have instead subjected this international agreement to proper debate regarding privacy concerns, instead of allowing it to cruise under the radar as part of an omnibus bill. The Conservatives have likely set themselves up for the courts to again ultimately decide on the constitutionality of this move.
Canadian financial institutions must begin handing over information by July 1, a Canada Day repudiation of our own sovereignty.”
Refreshingly astute. Good to see the mainstream catching on.
Finally a good article that many Canadians will see. It might have been better, however, if Tim Harper had at least mentioned U.S. citizenship-based taxation versus the residence-based taxation that all (but one) other countries use. I doubt that most Canadians and U.S.ers know about that, and that that is the real reason behind FATCA.
I know this is an off the wall comment but I have been trying to think who else could get FATCA into mainstream media attention, These are out of the box suggestions: Conrad Black is not enamoured of the US government and would probably be happy to tear a strip off FATCA and the invasion of privacy issue if he were asked to write an article. Ditto the Fraser Institute (I hold my nose) but anything that smacks of government interference with financial institutions should be an anathema to them. We need hard core attacks in the media to continue to educate the public both of the far left, far right and centrist positions.
Has anyone written to Justin Trudeau telling him that if he doesn’t get with it, the NDP is stealing the show and his votes?
This is me in desperation mode….
The big problem I see is that when WE sue them for damages, how do we PROVE the CRA/IRS handed over our information?
No responses to my communications from either Justin Trudeau or the Fraser Institute. And, I answer each Liberal communication I get asking for donations or attending the next Calgary area function, some of which I and others here have attended anyway to discuss this. Perhaps others have gotten a better response?
wishin the author’s first name was steve not tim
I am having FATCA burnout, but hope somebody else will respond to this comment:
Charlieman says,
I see nothing wrong with the CRA and IRS sharing information to catch tax evaders. Both agencies use very strict secrecy procedures that will protect the privacy of those effected. Concerns about “sovereignty” are overblown and not significant to me in this case.
“Ottawa doesn’t set U.S. legislation, he says.”
“Washington sets Canadian legislation”, he didn’t say.
“Ottawa doesn’t set U.S. legislation”
No – it just gives it teeth.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on FATCA being to capture US ex-pats. FATCA is to catch US residents with ‘hidden’ foreign bank accounts. As it wasn’t thought through very well (mainly due to CBT), the side effect is ex-pats get caught in the legislation and the draconian fines that are meant to hurt the aimed at US residents with ‘hidden’ foreign bank accounts. Because of CBT, all US citizens are caught, instead of just the US residents.
If enough countries would simply grow a pair and tell the Marxists in the U.S. Congress and White House
To shove FATCA and FBAR where the Sun doesn’t shine, they wouldn’t have enough power economically to enforce their Marxist ideas upon the world, however the Marxist in your country and many others have lied their way into politics and have the power to trade your freedoms for something for themselves.
The Obama machine collected several billion dollars from Marxists all over the world and distributed some to get re elected here and the rest to politicians in other countries to support their Marxist ideas.
All this to the peril of personal freedom. Personal freedom was the only thing we had that was unique and when he was elected he vowed to make us ordinary and with the help of other governments he has done just that. Martial law will be next when he withdraws the benefits the 50 million takers have become used to.
He has fired all the patriotic Generals and appointed a new batch who said in their interviews that they could order their troops to fire on American citizens.
Perhaps there are some retired Generals who could muster an army of retire and aged soldiers do do as Jefferson said. “Liberty has to be renewed periodically with the blood of tyrants and the blood of patriots”.
@MarkM, you say: ” FATCA is to catch US residents with ‘hidden’ foreign bank accounts. As it wasn’t thought through very well (mainly due to CBT), the side effect is ex-pats get caught in the legislation …”
If that were true, the U.S. could fix the legislation so it would apply to US residents only. Whether it was a “side effect” or the actual intention, the fact is that millions of US ex-pats are now targets of the FATCA dragnet.
AnonAnon and MarkM,
That the US does not right the wrong of FATCA damage to US Persons Abroad if the intent is to go after US residents who hide their assets abroad shows they realize the cash cow it will be for the US. They absolutely realize that RBT would go after those resident in the US that they say this is for. Moral decay, hypocrisy and punitive action at its finest.
@WhiteKat
Gordie N Ott tried repeatedly to reply to it, but kept getting the following error message “There was a problem processing your request. Please try again in a moment.” As Gordie N Ott had too much to do today, he could not wrestle with the Star’s comments all day. Had he been able to post the reply to @Charlieman, here is what it would have said:
@Charlieman
No one I know has a problem “with the CRA and IRS sharing information to catch tax evaders”. That is a false premise and not what this is about. I am not a tax evader. Back in the 1950’s, when the US was a decent neighbour, my parents crossed the border to the nearest medical facility where I was born. I have never lived, worked or voted in the US and I do my banking here in Canada where I live and work. Why should my financial information be provided to the IRS? The police cannot go to the bank and, without a warrant, request the banking information on all the residents of a certain neighbourhood because it is known drugs are sold there. That is a classic “fishing expedition” and a violation of Charter protections against unlawful search and seizure. Drug dealers are protected against unlawful search and seizure, but in Stephen Harper’s Canada people whose only crime is their place of birth have no such protections.
Your assertion that the IRS uses “very strict secrecy procedures that will protect the privacy of those effected” is beyond ludicrous. The IRS is, for all intents and purposes, a criminal organization. Pages could be filled with examples to prove this. I will only say “Lois Lerner” and “Fifth Amendment” to not belabour the point. Once the Canadian government turns over the financial records of its own citizens to this gang, they have no control over where it goes or what is done with it.
I believe the overblown “sovereignty” concerns you refer to may have to do with the fact that the US is forcing Canada to enact a law that Canada does not want and does not get reciprocity. Canada has now shown the extortionist that it is an easy mark under our current weak federal government – expect the extortionist to come back often with new demands. The late Jim Flaherty stated, “FATCA has far-reaching extraterritorial implications, as it would turn Canadian banks into extensions of the IRS and would raise significant privacy concerns for Canadians.” Canada has sacrificed sovereignty by giving in to the demands of the bully to our south.
It pains me, as a life long Conservative voter, to see an alleged Conservative government do this. Next election, I am a one issue voter and the NDP is the only party (save Green) that is standing on guard for Canada on this issue (it hurts me to say that too). I am also a little tired of MP Gerald Keddy referring to me as a US person in Canada and of MP Mike Allen’s position that there is nothing the Canadian government can do because, “Congress has spoken”.
I keep wondering why it isn’t made clear as day that the IRS demands are ruinous? That the penalties are draconian and costing people their lifetime savings. How can a homelander “get it” if they just think this is about catching tax cheats and them paying the “FAIR” share? How can they get that it is NOT fair?!!!
There’s an unfortunate falsehood in this otherwise good article….”Ottawa also won exemptions for a number of accounts such as RRSPs, TFSAs and disability savings plans. It also exempts small accounts.”
Even Roy Berg plainly says Ottawa negotiated nothing special. The reporting exemptions were options within the IGA model available to all countries.
I’m glad the author framed the issue as the Con’s attempting to legalize discrimination, and not merely a Canada-US issue. Also his comment about information forwarded to both the CRA and IRS as being “double jeopardy” nails it. Why should the CRA itself have more information on me than it has on any other Canadian? I was happy that Professor Cockfield also mentioned this in his testimony with the Standing Committee on Finance. That alone should be enough to stop the IGA.
Good article with some minor flaws. Twitterers…
note the account. @nutgraf1 You might tweet him a thnx.
I think I will send him this from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce…
https://www.uschamber.com/blog/irs-delays-fatca-enforcement-banks-start-date-looms
@tangogirl
Mark Milke is a senior fellow with the Fraser Institute and has a regular column in several newspapers across Canada. I’ve written to him asking him to cover FATCA a couple of times. Maybe if you and other did the same, he might consider it. I emailed him through the Fraser Institute here:
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/author.aspx?id=15062&txID=2964
@CanadianCop,
Your comment is awesome, as per usual, but too long to be accepted (exceeds word limitation by about 800 words).
@CanadianCop,
I took your comment, split it into two parts and posted on your behalf. I hope that’s OK.
@All,
To everyone who is making really good points here (Shovel, Polly, AnonAnon, etc) perhaps you might want to cut and paste them at the TO Star article as well.
OK, thought I would wake up and add my own comment to the mix….some of the commenters are pissing me off:
@7thGenCdn
Taxation based on birthplace, regardless of residence (which is what USA laws dictate – an anomaly in the world), is a modern day form of slavery. Physical slavery was once legal in the USA. FATCA is revealing USA’s dirty little secret: citizenship based taxation where citizenship is bestowed not based on social or economic connection, but on an accident of birth.
As Martin Luther King once said:
“I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law.”
Excellent article that, despite one or two inaccuracies, pulled no punches telling it like it is. And yes, an awesome comment, indeed, from Canadian Cop that also tells it like it is.
In his third paragraph Tim Harper gives the government’s hoped-for timeline for passage of the omnibus bill containing the FATCA-implementation provisions. It’s the first I’ve seen this. They want it passed within the next four weeks, apparently.