This is the kind of comment that causes much confusion for newbies:
unkalamod
@WhiteKatTurnedBlack
I am one of those Canadians and the process was actually very painless. The processing US Consulate will send your paperwork to the Secretary of State and the IRS, it is then returned to you signed – done deal. In cases where a US citizen has never lived in the US, the US government does not charge the $400+ plus renunciation processing fee and the IRS doesn’t pursue you. Regardless, renunciation is well worth it; plus why have the IRS on your back forever for something which is not rightfully theirs to begin with? The US Consulate Officers didn’t give me a lick of grief and we’re in fact very understanding. As you note, they have been seeing renunciations more and more.
As a newbie to this web site, I am not confused. WhiteKat’s experience sounds unusual, completely opposite of how I was dealt with when I filed for a CLN.
I realize a lot has already been said about the issue of choosing citizenship of country, which is now become an issue of ownership of persons, by the US Government. In order to gain some perspective and understanding about the nature of the beast we are dealing with, I found that reading the book, “The Untold History of the United States,” by Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick, brought clarity to this taxation policy that the US is imposing on the world. It is nothing less than an extension of slavery replacing the leg irons of the last century with F-Bars of today. The book states, “The American Empire has evolved over the course of more than a century. After fulfilling what journalist John L. O’Sullivan termed its “Manifest Destiny.” After spreading across North America, the United States now looks overseas. William Henry Seward, Secretary of State to both Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, articulated a grandiose vision that incorporated Alaska, Hawaii, Canada, parts of the Caribbean and Colombia, and Midway Island.” While this vision has expanded to include the Middle East and Africa, Canada still remains to be fully incorporated; thus FATCA.
One of my favorite subjects in high school was American history. The official superficial version, did sometimes make me wonder what really happened in the past, especially when it touched upon topics like, how the white man killed off all the buffalo to starve the “Indians” to death. Unfortunately the true reality about the brutality of my ancestors was never revealed in the school system. Even when I asked my grandfathers, uncles, and my dad about World Wars I & II, they declined to talk about what really went on, as if it was too terrible to speak of. Even so, I thought it was strange how everyone was so patriotic and encouraged me to become a solider, continuing a 300 year family legacy of fighting for “democracy and freedom.” Even my mom, was so proud to watch me march down the street in my crisp uniform and rifle all shinny. It was a great shock to my family when I began questioning the dubious reasons for America’s involvement in the Vietnam war. As reports of what was going on came to me from my fellow soldiers returning from the war, my conscience was awakened and it compelled me to not follow my orders to go to Nam. It then guided me north to Canada, Land of the Free!.
For such a long time I was burdened with the shame of running away from my military duty by moving to Canada in 1969. Eventually, the lies and corruption of power that caused the Vietnam war was revealed to anyone who still cared. My family eventually came to view my decision as an act of a hero rather than a traitor. Little did I realize that my life story had been repeated many times before by other patriots in the untold details of America’s History of Wars.
Now, as I read this Oliver Stone book, everything about America’s obsession with violence, its fixation with world domination, and the maintenance of a proaganda bubble of ignorance and forgetfulness becomes obviously clear. Canada remains as one of the last hold outs to this vision of empire building. It is no longer any mystery to me why our lives are being upset and threatened. Opening our awareness to the bigger picture and historical background sheds a great deal of light upon the underlying dark causes for this present state of chaos and upheaval that is enveloping the world.
KaPow~
@ KaPow
Wow! A big welcome to Brock. Glad to have your perspective here. The pages of the history of war are written by the victors and that always means distortion and cover-up. That leads to disillusionment whenever this is discovered by someone due to curiosity or in search of the truth.
@ Charl
You are not just the Editor’s Pick. Great comment at the Star! WhiteKat you have definite bull dog traits and thank goodness. Nobody is going to get away with misdirection and misinformation when you latch onto them.
@Kapow
Doesn’t that just sound like another Hitler? Another “Reich”?
I think it might be something in human nature to want to conquer and expand. Sadly.
( It might have something to do with what happens to people who experience the headiness of POWER.)
Welcome to Brock KaPow.
Weirdly, the alias you have chosen is very similar to the first few initials of both my first and last names.
Regarding your comment about my experience being unusual, it is not at all unusual, as others here can readily attest to.
What is it exactly that you think is unusual about what I have described so far?
@KaPow,
I suspect that you were able to relinquish, not renounce, thus you did not have to deal with Uncle Sam. Unfortunately, people born dual, such as myself and many others, never had the opportunity to swear allegiance to the queen, thus do not have a past relinquishing act to fall back on, and must renounce citizenship rather than relinquish.
Renunciation comes with a promise to get square with Uncle Sam for the prior 5 years – a complicated, expensive, risky endeavour for a Canadian who has lived decades in Canada, and makes one subject to the exit tax.
Paradoxically, it is actually MORE difficult to dump US citizenship as a born dual US/Canadian than it is for an American who acquires Canadian citizenship as an adult.
Up is down, and white is black in USA CBT world.
@KaPow said: “As reports of what was going on came to me from my fellow soldiers returning from the war, my conscience was awakened and it compelled me to not follow my orders to go to Nam.”
I’m surprised some vindictive person in DOS did not find that a compelling reason to deny your relinquishment. Maybe you just got lucky and they didn’t have a history of you going AWOL. What you’ve described above is going AWOL and they usually don’t look kindly on that.
Loser Comment of the day, goes to Charlieman at the TO Star article who writes:
To all who have objected to my comment:
1. If you don’t owe the IRS money, then you have nothing to worry about. If you do owe the IRS money, then you’re on your own without my sympathy. My comments about IRS and CRA security precautions stand. Any confidential information would be examined by a sophisticated and encrypted software program that looks for suspicious flags for further review by personnel with security clearance.
2. If you are worried about Canada’s sovereignty, then get over it. We lost that long ago in international affairs. Like it or not, we live in an American world, and from where I sit it’s not too bad. Be careful what you wish for.
The US government is so good at protecting confidential information. The White House just accidentally revealed the name of the CIA’s top intelligence official in Afghanistan to 6,000 journalists. I’m sure the Taliban appreciates the information. The CIA Station Chief, his family, other CIA employees and their Afghan informants are all in danger now.
@ WhiteKat
Charlieman is so unEMpathetic he’s pathetic. We once had a small black cat who would shake his front paw at food which was not exactly to his liking. I am giving Charlieman the paw right now.
Another good thing about the Tim Harper article is that it got placed in the News section of The Star, instead of being tucked away in Business or Opinion. The exposure may be fleeting as the new news rolls in but it might get more reads than the other sections. Someday though I would love to see FATCA in the Obituaries. Here likes FATCA (2010-2014) — now we all can rest in peace.
Another Em gem!
@WhiteKat
Considering that you started the day FATCA’d out, you did an amazing job over at the Star. Thanks for making my initial posts for me. I have been in and out all day and trying to keep up. I checked tonight and saw Charlieman’s comment too and had to respond because it made me mad – then I got over here and saw your comment above. People like Charlieman are scary, because they don’t let the facts interfere with what they believe! Kind of like that Homelander mindset, also alive and well in Canada.
@CanadianCop, Yeah, I had an amazing recovery later in the day…kind of like the one my 13 year old had this afternoon after not feeling well enough to go to school this morning.
I agree with you about people like Charlieman – very scary indeed. It really doesn’t matter what logic you present to them; their minds are closed to all reasoning.
@CanadianCop, I particularly like this comment you made to CharlieChump:
“There are many other points that could be raised on what is a very complicated issue. Please educate yourself on these, and be a bit skeptical when told, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help. ”
LOL!!
@bubblebustin
Thanks for the link to Mark. I will send off an email this week. As you said, if perhaps if he received 10-20 requests to wade into the fray we might start to see some action….Clock is ticking away on the four week deadline to passage.
You’re welcome, Tangogirl. He’s put me in his email list to receive his articles and I actually find him interesting. He’s Canadian through and through, it seems. You’d think he’d be gravely concerned by the FATCA IGA, but maybe loyalties lie with the banks and the Harperites.
@KaPow
Welcome to Brock. You came to Canada in 69 like me and my late husband, who chose not follow his orders to report to California to be sent to Vietnam. You share the same situation as my late husband. It was startling reading what you wrote. I felt like he came back for a few moments while I read what you wrote. He died 13 years ago so he missed seeing the Harper government sell us to the American IRS.
I got my CLN this month with it backdated to 1993 when we became citizens. I am one of the lucky ones as It was considered I relinquished my US citizenship when I became a Canadian citizen. I feel a sense of Deja Vu and am back in the late 60s these days. I feel drained from the stress of worrying about FATCA. Lately I have been reading more and not writing here. When the challenge to fight FATCA in the courts I am ready to help.
I too loved US history when in high school. Howard Zinn’s novel on US History is one of my favorites. He writes of the history never taught in the US schools.
To Em: Right on! … FATCA in the obituaries is exactly what I’d like to see … in a double grave along with CBT!
To KaPow: Welcome! You are indeed one of the lucky ones and we’re all glad to hear of these “good news” situations. But I have to agree with WhiteKat that there are many others who have a great deal to fear. Their situations are such that they will be faced, through no fault of their own, with the full wrath of Uncle Sam if they come forward. Laws MUST change.
Today the Toronto Star has finally published two good letters to the editor in response to Tim Harper’s FATCA article:
@AnonAnon
Two great letters. Thanks for posting. I sent the link to everyone I know, although I feel like I am shouting to the deaf. The indifference is so high.
Pastbeyond60 is the editor’s pick!
This is the kind of comment that causes much confusion for newbies:
unkalamod
@WhiteKatTurnedBlack
I am one of those Canadians and the process was actually very painless. The processing US Consulate will send your paperwork to the Secretary of State and the IRS, it is then returned to you signed – done deal. In cases where a US citizen has never lived in the US, the US government does not charge the $400+ plus renunciation processing fee and the IRS doesn’t pursue you. Regardless, renunciation is well worth it; plus why have the IRS on your back forever for something which is not rightfully theirs to begin with? The US Consulate Officers didn’t give me a lick of grief and we’re in fact very understanding. As you note, they have been seeing renunciations more and more.
As a newbie to this web site, I am not confused. WhiteKat’s experience sounds unusual, completely opposite of how I was dealt with when I filed for a CLN.
I realize a lot has already been said about the issue of choosing citizenship of country, which is now become an issue of ownership of persons, by the US Government. In order to gain some perspective and understanding about the nature of the beast we are dealing with, I found that reading the book, “The Untold History of the United States,” by Oliver Stone and Peter Kuznick, brought clarity to this taxation policy that the US is imposing on the world. It is nothing less than an extension of slavery replacing the leg irons of the last century with F-Bars of today. The book states, “The American Empire has evolved over the course of more than a century. After fulfilling what journalist John L. O’Sullivan termed its “Manifest Destiny.” After spreading across North America, the United States now looks overseas. William Henry Seward, Secretary of State to both Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, articulated a grandiose vision that incorporated Alaska, Hawaii, Canada, parts of the Caribbean and Colombia, and Midway Island.” While this vision has expanded to include the Middle East and Africa, Canada still remains to be fully incorporated; thus FATCA.
One of my favorite subjects in high school was American history. The official superficial version, did sometimes make me wonder what really happened in the past, especially when it touched upon topics like, how the white man killed off all the buffalo to starve the “Indians” to death. Unfortunately the true reality about the brutality of my ancestors was never revealed in the school system. Even when I asked my grandfathers, uncles, and my dad about World Wars I & II, they declined to talk about what really went on, as if it was too terrible to speak of. Even so, I thought it was strange how everyone was so patriotic and encouraged me to become a solider, continuing a 300 year family legacy of fighting for “democracy and freedom.” Even my mom, was so proud to watch me march down the street in my crisp uniform and rifle all shinny. It was a great shock to my family when I began questioning the dubious reasons for America’s involvement in the Vietnam war. As reports of what was going on came to me from my fellow soldiers returning from the war, my conscience was awakened and it compelled me to not follow my orders to go to Nam. It then guided me north to Canada, Land of the Free!.
For such a long time I was burdened with the shame of running away from my military duty by moving to Canada in 1969. Eventually, the lies and corruption of power that caused the Vietnam war was revealed to anyone who still cared. My family eventually came to view my decision as an act of a hero rather than a traitor. Little did I realize that my life story had been repeated many times before by other patriots in the untold details of America’s History of Wars.
Now, as I read this Oliver Stone book, everything about America’s obsession with violence, its fixation with world domination, and the maintenance of a proaganda bubble of ignorance and forgetfulness becomes obviously clear. Canada remains as one of the last hold outs to this vision of empire building. It is no longer any mystery to me why our lives are being upset and threatened. Opening our awareness to the bigger picture and historical background sheds a great deal of light upon the underlying dark causes for this present state of chaos and upheaval that is enveloping the world.
KaPow~
@ KaPow
Wow! A big welcome to Brock. Glad to have your perspective here. The pages of the history of war are written by the victors and that always means distortion and cover-up. That leads to disillusionment whenever this is discovered by someone due to curiosity or in search of the truth.
@ Charl
You are not just the Editor’s Pick. Great comment at the Star! WhiteKat you have definite bull dog traits and thank goodness. Nobody is going to get away with misdirection and misinformation when you latch onto them.
@Kapow
Doesn’t that just sound like another Hitler? Another “Reich”?
I think it might be something in human nature to want to conquer and expand. Sadly.
( It might have something to do with what happens to people who experience the headiness of POWER.)
Welcome to Brock KaPow.
Weirdly, the alias you have chosen is very similar to the first few initials of both my first and last names.
Regarding your comment about my experience being unusual, it is not at all unusual, as others here can readily attest to.
What is it exactly that you think is unusual about what I have described so far?
@KaPow,
I suspect that you were able to relinquish, not renounce, thus you did not have to deal with Uncle Sam. Unfortunately, people born dual, such as myself and many others, never had the opportunity to swear allegiance to the queen, thus do not have a past relinquishing act to fall back on, and must renounce citizenship rather than relinquish.
Renunciation comes with a promise to get square with Uncle Sam for the prior 5 years – a complicated, expensive, risky endeavour for a Canadian who has lived decades in Canada, and makes one subject to the exit tax.
Paradoxically, it is actually MORE difficult to dump US citizenship as a born dual US/Canadian than it is for an American who acquires Canadian citizenship as an adult.
Up is down, and white is black in USA CBT world.
@KaPow said: “As reports of what was going on came to me from my fellow soldiers returning from the war, my conscience was awakened and it compelled me to not follow my orders to go to Nam.”
I’m surprised some vindictive person in DOS did not find that a compelling reason to deny your relinquishment. Maybe you just got lucky and they didn’t have a history of you going AWOL. What you’ve described above is going AWOL and they usually don’t look kindly on that.
Loser Comment of the day, goes to Charlieman at the TO Star article who writes:
To all who have objected to my comment:
1. If you don’t owe the IRS money, then you have nothing to worry about. If you do owe the IRS money, then you’re on your own without my sympathy. My comments about IRS and CRA security precautions stand. Any confidential information would be examined by a sophisticated and encrypted software program that looks for suspicious flags for further review by personnel with security clearance.
2. If you are worried about Canada’s sovereignty, then get over it. We lost that long ago in international affairs. Like it or not, we live in an American world, and from where I sit it’s not too bad. Be careful what you wish for.
The US government is so good at protecting confidential information. The White House just accidentally revealed the name of the CIA’s top intelligence official in Afghanistan to 6,000 journalists. I’m sure the Taliban appreciates the information. The CIA Station Chief, his family, other CIA employees and their Afghan informants are all in danger now.
White House outs CIA official by mistake
@ WhiteKat
Charlieman is so unEMpathetic he’s pathetic. We once had a small black cat who would shake his front paw at food which was not exactly to his liking. I am giving Charlieman the paw right now.
Another good thing about the Tim Harper article is that it got placed in the News section of The Star, instead of being tucked away in Business or Opinion. The exposure may be fleeting as the new news rolls in but it might get more reads than the other sections. Someday though I would love to see FATCA in the Obituaries. Here likes FATCA (2010-2014) — now we all can rest in peace.
Another Em gem!
@WhiteKat
Considering that you started the day FATCA’d out, you did an amazing job over at the Star. Thanks for making my initial posts for me. I have been in and out all day and trying to keep up. I checked tonight and saw Charlieman’s comment too and had to respond because it made me mad – then I got over here and saw your comment above. People like Charlieman are scary, because they don’t let the facts interfere with what they believe! Kind of like that Homelander mindset, also alive and well in Canada.
@CanadianCop, Yeah, I had an amazing recovery later in the day…kind of like the one my 13 year old had this afternoon after not feeling well enough to go to school this morning.
I agree with you about people like Charlieman – very scary indeed. It really doesn’t matter what logic you present to them; their minds are closed to all reasoning.
@CanadianCop, I particularly like this comment you made to CharlieChump:
“There are many other points that could be raised on what is a very complicated issue. Please educate yourself on these, and be a bit skeptical when told, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help. ”
LOL!!
@bubblebustin
Thanks for the link to Mark. I will send off an email this week. As you said, if perhaps if he received 10-20 requests to wade into the fray we might start to see some action….Clock is ticking away on the four week deadline to passage.
You’re welcome, Tangogirl. He’s put me in his email list to receive his articles and I actually find him interesting. He’s Canadian through and through, it seems. You’d think he’d be gravely concerned by the FATCA IGA, but maybe loyalties lie with the banks and the Harperites.
@KaPow
Welcome to Brock. You came to Canada in 69 like me and my late husband, who chose not follow his orders to report to California to be sent to Vietnam. You share the same situation as my late husband. It was startling reading what you wrote. I felt like he came back for a few moments while I read what you wrote. He died 13 years ago so he missed seeing the Harper government sell us to the American IRS.
I got my CLN this month with it backdated to 1993 when we became citizens. I am one of the lucky ones as It was considered I relinquished my US citizenship when I became a Canadian citizen. I feel a sense of Deja Vu and am back in the late 60s these days. I feel drained from the stress of worrying about FATCA. Lately I have been reading more and not writing here. When the challenge to fight FATCA in the courts I am ready to help.
I too loved US history when in high school. Howard Zinn’s novel on US History is one of my favorites. He writes of the history never taught in the US schools.
To Em: Right on! … FATCA in the obituaries is exactly what I’d like to see … in a double grave along with CBT!
To KaPow: Welcome! You are indeed one of the lucky ones and we’re all glad to hear of these “good news” situations. But I have to agree with WhiteKat that there are many others who have a great deal to fear. Their situations are such that they will be faced, through no fault of their own, with the full wrath of Uncle Sam if they come forward. Laws MUST change.
Today the Toronto Star has finally published two good letters to the editor in response to Tim Harper’s FATCA article:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2014/05/29/time_to_stand_up_to_big_brother.html
@AnonAnon
Two great letters. Thanks for posting. I sent the link to everyone I know, although I feel like I am shouting to the deaf. The indifference is so high.