Marry this NDP petition with Petros New Post: “NDP calling on Harper government: Remove FATCA from omnibus budget bill“.
If you, like many Canadians, are concerned about the implementation of the USA FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act) IGA (intergovernmental agreement) being buried in yet another omnibus bill, C-31, rather than thoroughly studied on its own merits in a stand-alone bill, please voice your concern by signing the NDP petition — then pass it on to your Canadian family, friends, business associates and neighbours (many of whom could also be indirectly affected). By precedent being set, this should concern ALL Canadians.
Cross-posted from MapleSandbox.ca:
PROTECT CANADIANS FROM FATCA is a just launched petition from the NDP.
Tell Stephen Harper to protect our constitutional and privacy rights from this invasive U.S. law.
The Conservatives are rushing to implement an American law that threatens the rights of more than a million Canadians…
Let’s send Stephen Harper a message:
It’s time to put Canadians first.Canadians, please sign the on line petition.
This was sent to Lynne Swanson by Murray Rankin’s Assistant. More on Murray Rankin’s FATCA page on his website.
Signed and will pass on.
Have sent thanks to MP Rankin and other NDP MPs.
Have also thanked Green leader MP Elizabeth May – who heard us and responded when no one else did. I will never forget that.
@NativeCanadian,
Perhaps go into your send box and resend all those ‘lost’ emails in one big batch.
@ Native Canadian
These people need to be told many times over that we the tax payers, pay their salary. The fact that they loose emails, hand written messages etc shows how incompetent this office really is. It’s gone because somebody deleted it. Try sending them again Native Canadian with a note as to here they are not lost after all. It galls me to note that they take home lucrative pay checks and do work like this. The fact that they admit it, is laughable.
No name: My husband and I signed, and we don’t have CLNs – yet. We applied in Calgary in March, so it will take a while, if everything goes smoothly. What US. government transaction ever went smoothly? In my brief I stressed the difficulty of obtaining a CLN , and that Canadians living in Canada should not be required to endure difficult, complicated procedures prescribed by a foreign government in order to live a normal life in Canada. I’m concerned that if the petition does not get substantial support it will appear that few Canadians are really upset about legislation affecting only a few Americans who happen to live in Canada.
Chears Big Ears: I hope you now sign the petition, besides your attempt to interest the Liberals. We’ve sent several letters to Ralph Goodale, who would be our MP if we lived a couple of miles away. We received the usual replies about helping to reach a better deal for dual citizens. In Feb. the secretary in his local office phoned to put us in touch with another person who had met with him and spoken in great detail about her attempts to deal with the IRS, and had asked him to give her name and phone number to others who contacted him about FATCA. The secretary didn’t seem to understand that FATCA affects people who are not “dual citizens” – maybe the others contacting Ralph are permanent residents or Canadian citizens with U S passports and strong ties to the U S – although after our phone conversation I think the concept was beginning to dawn on her. I think that Ralph sort of understands, but he doesn’t seem to have much influence with JT. Maybe your phone call will help other Liberals start to realize the impact of FATCA on their political careers.
…”High Importance” and “Read Receipt”.
Disgusting that our communications with Canadian government (or any other country government) persons who we vote to represent us get lost — the sum of the ones lost for you, NativeCanadian, is willful and deliberate, if not criminal.
While I’m at it, it is also disgusting that we do not get thoughtful responses to what we are saying to our government representatives, paid by our taxpayer money. The most I’ve ever gotten from my MP is a robo “we’ve received it” from her office. I have had conversations with one of her staff who has renounced his US citizenship who assures me that he will advocate on my behalf. Nothing of that sort from Michelle Rempel. I want and expect communication from my government representatives.
Maybe we should start a thread for people to post their experiences with their elected officials and how their issues were handled. We need to name names here to show the over 1 million people who visit this site, who actually cares enough to show interest and answer us.
@Native Canadian
I never heard back from Liberal Justin Trudeau’s office so we could start with him. I sent him a message when the IGA was signed in Feb. regarding FACTA. Has anybody else heard from him?
@ Native Canadian
I’m going to resend my e-mails to Joe Oliver plus my FINA submission plus a piece of my mind. I never received even an auto-reply from his office so I’m assuming they have lost everything everybody sent. We need to refill J.O.’s e-mail box since his staff seem to have so conveniently emptied it for him.
Signed and shared. My share has already been re-shared on FB 4 times in less than 3 hours!
Native Canadian, Ann, others who have contacted Liberals: Yesterday afternoon my husband and I received a disturbing, poorly-composed message from Ralph Goodale. I wonder if it was sent to anyone who had contacted the Liberals about FATCA. I’d like to post it here, along with my response. (this morning Goodale’s parliamentary secretary replied that she would pass my response along to Mr. Goodale at her earliest opportunity.
Should I post the letter and my response on this thread?
@Queenston, post it, and maybe I will make a new post out of it.
Here’s the letter from Goodale: (not our MP, but would be if we lived a couple of miles away):
May 13, 2014:
Dear Mr. & Mrs. __________
I am writing to follow-up on our previous correspondence about the United States’ Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
In an attempt to shield Canadian banks from U.S. financial penalties and protect Canadian banking information under Canadian law, the Government of Canada signed an enhanced tax information exchange agreement with the United States in February. Bill C-31, which is currently before Parliament, implements that agreement.
Under Bill C-31, Canadian banks would report information regarding clients with U.S. citizenship directly to the CRA, not the IRS. CRA would then share that information with the United States.
Under the agreement, Canadian banks do not have to report on certain types of registered accounts held by U.S. citizens, including TFSAs, RDSPs and RESPs. However, U.S. citizens living in Canada must still report these accounts to the IRS, where they are subject to U.S. taxation. This is particularly concerning in the case of RDSPs and RESPs as any gains on both the individual’s savings, as well as grants provided by the Government of Canada, will be subject to U.S. taxation.
To help the United States go after U.S. citizens living in Canada, Bill C-31 introduces a $100 penalty for each time a Canadian taxpayer fails to provide their U.S. taxpayer identifying number to the CRA. If they do provide that information, it is then shared by CRA with the IRS. For example, a Canadian who is also a U.S. person with a Canadian RDSP could provide their RDSP information and U.S. tax identification number to the CRA. The CRA would then share that information with the IRS, which would help the IRS collect U.S. taxes on the RDSP. CRA is not required to proactively notify U.S. persons regarding which of their information is being shared with the United States.
Liberals are concerned that the Conservative government seems to be more concerned about protecting Canadian banks from U.S. penalties than they are about defending the interests of Canadian taxpayers who may be U.S. persons by accident of birth and are being subjected to extraterritorial abuse.
Yours sincerely,
Ralph Goodale, MP
Wascana
My response (using as many strong words as I could, redundantly, to improve the chances it will actually be read by Goodale and others in his party):
(My husband) sent me the letter he received from you. I don’t recall seeing the information you included in paragraph 5 before. You said:
“To help the United States go after U.S. citizens living in Canada, Bill C-31 introduces a $100 penalty for each time a Canadian taxpayer fails to provide their U.S. taxpayer identifying number to the CRA. If they do provide that information, it is then shared by CRA with the IRS. For example, a Canadian who is also a U.S. person with a Canadian RDSP could provide their RDSP information and U.S. tax identification number to the CRA. The CRA would then share that information with the IRS, which would help the IRS collect U.S. taxes on the RDSP. CRA is not required to proactively notify U.S. persons regarding which of their information is being shared with the United States.”
Where is this stated in the IGA? If a Canadian is claimed as a “U.S. person” by the U. S.,will their information be sent to the CRA for transfer to the IRS without their knowledge? If the bank already holds Canadian registered accounts for this person, why would they need additional information such as a non-existent American Taxpayer Information Number? Will the Government of Canada require that a Canadian obtain an American TIN or be subject to fines for failing to provide such a number? I’ve read through the IGA agreement of Feb. and I can’t find any reference to this.
If a so-called “U.S. person” is asked to prove that he/she is not a citizen, and that person has a Certificate of Loss of (American) Nationality, will the Government of Canada require the Canadian to apply for U.S. tax forms such as the W8-BEN even though American citizenship was relinquished decades ago?
I see no plan of action in your letter to protect Canadians, only an expression of concern. Is this letter simply fear-mongering among a vulnerable segment of the electorate, or do you actually plan to ensure that Canadians are not exposed to abusive American bullying?
For your information I’ve attached the brief I sent to the Finance Committee.
Sincerely,
Queenston,
This is one reference I found: Explanatory Notes – Canada – United States Enhanced Tax Information Exchange Agreement
Here is an excerpt from Bill C-31 regarding the $100 penalty.
Where the English version is blank, the French version has a sub (b)
which I translate as: “(b) the number is provided to this person within 15 days following receipt.” That is it has to be provided by the US person to the person referred to in lines 2-3 of (6).
Didn’t copy both versions as I had a hassle copying from the PDF. You can access the original (with both versions side-by-side) at this link. http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6495200&File=110#16
Calgary 411, pacifica.
Thanks for finding that section, but it doesn’t explain to whom this TIN must be provided. The CRA? The bank? Can a bank require that any Canadian account-holder it thinks might be a US. person obtain and submit a U.S. TIN? Goodale’s email doesn’t explain this, nor how the Liberal Party intends to stop it.N seems like the edge of a slippery slope toward the CRA collection of U.S. taxes from Canadian citizens.
@ Queenston,
I think you can find that info in the IGA, which is also an Annex to Bill C-31 at the link below. I’m at work, so can’t look through it now. The impression I got when I read the IGA last winter — and I stress just my impression, it was a while ago, could be wrong — was that if a person is a “US person,” the bank would be required to get them to fill out a W-9 and the US SSN or TIN has to be filled on in it.
The implementation details about what the financial institutions are to do regarding US persons’ accounts are in Annex I of the IGA, which is Annex 3 of Bill C-31.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6495200&File=110#16
From page 12 of Canada Fatca I hate copying PDF.
regarding US TIN on prexisiting accounts
Notwithstanding paragraph 3 of this Article, with respect to each Reportable Account that
is maintained by a Reporting Financial Institution as of June 30,2014,and subject to
paragraph 4 of Article 6 of this Agreement, the Parties are not required to obtain and
include in the exchanged information the Canadian TIN or the U.S. TIN, as applicable, of
any relevant person if such taxpayer identifying number is not in the records of the
Reporting Financial Institution. In such a case, the Parties shall obtain and include in the
exchanged information the date of birth of the relevant person, if the Reporting Financial
Institution has such date of birth in its records.
I assume all bank keep date of birth record
Can people confirm that this means the banks may send down birth date records instead of TIN?
source of above
http://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/pdf/FATCA-eng.pdf
I tweeted several of the comments made here about Murray Rankin to him.
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze 1h
“Former @CPC_HQ “admits fondness 4 new friend @MurrayRankin & @NDP_HQ” b/c of #FATCA http://bit.ly/T7TlFf
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze 1h
@MurrayRankin “is going 2 b Canada’s next Prime Minister once Cdns c what he stands 4” http://bit.ly/1jjAIIT Thanks 4 #FATCA petition.
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze 1h
@MurrayRankin “continues 2 b hero” of long-time @CPC_HQ voter b/c of #FATCA http://bit.ly/1gsxRNO
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze 1h
“Former @CPC_HQ “admits fondness 4 new friend @MurrayRankin & @NDP_HQ” b/c of #FATCA http://bit.ly/T7TlFf
Lynne Swanson @LynneBlaze
@MurrayRankin “just became favourite person in whole world. Means alot coming from lifelong” @CPC_HQ bit.ly/1lvGTp9 – 15 May
Here is Mr. Rankin’s reply.
Murray Rankin @MurrayRankin
@LynneBlaze Wow! Thx 4 great feedback. #NDP will keep fighting to remove #FATCA from the budget so we can fix this deeply flawed agreement!