My advice I would get moving on submissions this weekend. I did talk to the committee clerk who said there is no formal deadline but the sooner the better will be better for them.
2. Subject-matter of Bill C-31, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures. Part 5 (Clauses 99 to 101)(FATCA)
Witnesses
Department of Finance Canada
– Brian Ernewein, General Director, Tax Policy Branch
– Kevin Shoom, Senior Chief, International Taxation and Special Projects
– Ted Cook, Senior Legislative Chief, Tax Legislation
Thanks for the heads up, Tim.
Brockers, please take a look at Lynne’s comment today at the Maple Sandbox:
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/proposed-amendment-idea-sent-to-ndp-liberals-on-finance-committee/comment-page-1/#comment-26099
I wish my submissions (Fin. Can. and Senate) had been more polished but I just can’t seem to do polish. Thank goodness we have pros like Lynne, Tim, John, Stephen and others.
Is this a public hearing? Will we be able to have a transcript of what is going to be said?
I see an audio webcast on the page you sent.
I will write out my submission for this right away. Also want to say to Blaze, if she is asked to testify, I will personally drive you to Ottawa and bring you home in my van anytime. This is of utmost importance to all of us. I hope CanadianCop sends his list of legal questions to this cause as well…… Thanks all!!
Just in case there is a live webcast of the meeting I’m putting a Date and Time reminder on my desktop. Tuesday, April 29, 2014 at 2:30PM (Ottawa time) or 12:30PM my time. Gosh these are tight timelines. This whole thing which requires long and careful consideration is being rushed through in the blink of an eye.
@ NativeCanadian
Good for you and yes I too hope Canadian Cop will make a submission. It would have polish for sure.
is it best to send submission as an attachment or as regular email? Do I also send same via snail mail?
@ All
When e-mailing your submissions please attach a copy of your letter in a pdf. It can’t hurt and may make it easier for the clerk, Jodi Turner, to do a printout if that’s what they do with these things.
Thank you, all of you for what you are doing.
I will also add the wife of committee chairman Senator Day of New Brunswick(a Liberal) was born in St Stephen, NB. If anyone knows St Stephen it is literally right on the border with the US. A lot of border babies are from this area. So in theory if Senator’s Day’s wife was born in Calais, ME instead as many people from the St Stephen/Campobello area were he would be personally effected by FATCA on any joint bank accounts he has with his wife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_A._Day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgie_Day
St Stephen is part of Canada but it is rather close for comfort in the FATCA era.
@Em
I can’t seem to do “polished” either but at your worst day you are better than I. Unfortunately I don’t have the capacity for the intellectual legalistic exchanges that might actually be influential. I just write volumes on plain vanilla anecdotal outrage. I have to write/wait/cool down/edit/summon maturity/edit. It seems today isn’t the day to submit my letter as my rage is explosive. Just heard arguments on the radio about how a sex offender’s right to privacy would be violated by notifying the neighbours. Really? We aren’t even worthy of debate, falling below the rights of even vile sex offenders that interfere with children, people that should be behind bars FOREVER. Blood pressure currently 300/200, not the time for writing.
Yipes Charl !!!
Try to get your BP down — that’s more important than a submission. My BP can rise sometimes but mostly I have to try to keep it up to normal. I probably took the easy route out with the Senate committee by just expanding a bit on my last Fin. Can. submission.
Thanks for the heads up on the Senate – especially the Senate Chair’s New Brunswick border town roots. I modified my submission to match and added a news clipping about one such New Brunswick person.
The effect of FATCA IGA on Canada’s “Border Babies” is at the core of my submission’s argument against it:
The Egregious Example – “Border Baby”
“Border Baby” is Canadian citizen born in U.S. hospital because their Canadian mother was referred there for high-risk pregnancy. This is a common practice in the Provence of New Brunswick, where mothers may be referred to U.S. hospitals in Maine. “Border Baby”, born in a U.S. hospital to Canadian parents, is a Canadian citizen at birth under Canadian law. Now, the FATCA IGA victimizes this Canadian, even if they returned to Canada within days of being born, and have no U.S. economic activity or residential presence. This is because under FATCA’s foreign law criteria, “Border Baby” is also a so-called “U.S. person” and life-long “U.S. tax resident.”
In ultimate effect, the FATCA IGA subjects this Canadian and New Brunswick citizen to harmful discrimination and loss of financial privacy because they were born in a Maine, U.S. hospital due to medical need.
Moreover, if they were born in any other foreign country they would not be subject to FATCA. Why should the Canadian citizen “Border Baby” be exempt from equality of treatment under Canadian law because their medically necessary foreign birth occurred in one particular country?
The FATCA IGA requires banks and other Canadian financial institutions to seek “unambiguous indication of a U.S. place of birth.” in account holders’ records and documentation to determine if an account holder is a so-called “U.S. person.” Thus the “Border Baby” cited above is a so-called “U.S. person” or “U.S. tax resident” under the FATCA IGA and suffers a discriminatory and irreparable loss of privacy, even if they never left Canada since returning from their singular birth event abroad.
The definition of so-called “U.S.-person” or “U.S. tax residency” based upon a U.S. place of birth is “fruit of a poisonous tree” under Section 15 of the Charter. And that poisonous tree is national origin discrimination based on place of birth.
Also added this news clipping:
CTV Atlantic – Published Monday, November 25, 2013
“A New Brunswick woman is getting a great deal of support from her community after learning she may not be a Canadian citizen.Doris McKay was born 61 years ago in a hospital across the border in Maine, because it was the closest hospital to her family’s Saint-Leonard home, and returned to New Brunswick the following day. “I have lived here all my life. I have worked here. I have children here. I married here, and I was only in the States to be born and left that next day,” Doris McKay told CTV on Friday.
http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/community-rallies-behind-n-b-woman-who-may-not-be-canadian-citizen-1.1559396
@ Wondering
Perfect! Poor Doris — forsaken by Canada and fatca’d by the USA.
Now the question will be whether Senators even receive the submissions. I was stunned when the Access to Information Analyst told me submissions to Finance Canada do not normally go to the Finance Committee considering draft legislation.
My question, of course, was what then is the purpose of Canadians making submissions.
I have requested copies of all the submissions that went to Finance Canada. They have found over 400 pages, which they are reviewing before submitting to me. They need to remove any personal identifying information before providing it to me. So, it will likely be after the vote on the law is taken before I receive it.
I alerted Nathan Cullen, Scott Brison and Murray Rankin’s Assistants that those submissions are at Finance Canada. Mr. Rankin’s Assistant will try to get copies for the MPs on the Finance Committee.
I have asked the members of the Senate Finance Committee and the Clerk of the Finance Committee to “hear our voices” by reviewing the submissions.
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/proposed-amendment-idea-sent-to-ndp-liberals-on-finance-committee/comment-page-1/#comment-26290
If anyone wants to contact all of the members of the Senate Finance Committee, here are their e-mail addresses:
joseph.day@sen.parl.gc.ca
joanne.buth@sen.parl.gc.ca
nicole.eaton@sen.parl.gc.ca
percy.mockler@sen.parl.gc.ca larry.smith@sen.parl.gc.ca
catherine.callbeck@sen.parl.gc.ca
irving.gerstein@sen.parl.gc.ca
asha.seth@sen.parl.gc.ca
diane.bellemare@sen.parl.gc.ca
maria.chaput@sen.parl.gc.ca
celine.hervieux-payette@sen.parl.gc.ca
When this Senate committee was doing a comprehensive review of the “CANADA-USA Price Gap” look what happened:
“The committee heard from 53 witnesses, including government officials, consumer groups, retailers, manufacturers, importers, exporters, experts from the academic sector, accountants and independent economists during public hearings that took place over eight months, starting in the fall of 2011.”
Can you see a glaring difference between this price gap issue and our FATCA issue? Many witnesses for price gap versus. three for FATCA (all from the Department of Finance). Many months of hearings for price gap versus a few hours for FATCA. And what assurance do we have that the Senate committee will even look at our written submissions? I suppose the price gap issue affected everyone in Canada to varying degrees but FATCA affects one million people plus their families and associates so that should be a significant enough number to deserve more consideration from the Senate committee.
My understanding is that there will be further hearings after Tuesday but details are yet to come. The price gap hearing were not announced all once.
@ Tim
Obviously this inner sanctum stuff is new to me. I’ll wait to see what happens but it does appear this is all being rushed through. I suppose so Harper can celebrate FATCA on Canada Day.
Stateless Doris must have thought she had dual citizenship:
“But the U.S. government doesn’t consider McKay to be an American citizen either. A work Visa application for McKay’s children was denied in 2002 on the grounds that she isn’t a U.S.
I can’t see how the IRS can claim her, once the State Department rejected her. She’s going to be a lot better off than a lot of border babies will be when the IRS comes knocking, because of this.
Read more: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/community-rallies-behind-n-b-woman-who-may-not-be-canadian-citizen-1.1559396#ixzz2zxVZjzzE
@ bubblebustin
But poor Doris was born in the USA — that’s the indicie the banks are looking for. Boy will she have some explaining to do if she gets outed — that’s providing the banks will even listen. So the USA might reject her as a US citizen but she could still get fatca’d for IRS purposes.
I have no idea how many letters Senators get from constituents.
I’ll send a submission to the National Finance Committee clerks, and cc each individual Senator.
A key tactic is volume. We have to emphasize HOW MANY Canadians this affects.
A challenge is the lack of authoritative population number of Canadians who are also so-called “US persons”. According to Canada 2006 Census, 316,350 Canadians reported American as being their ethnicity, at least partially (what ever “partially” means….)
Newspapers toss around “500,000” or “possibly a million”
By comparison, the number of Canadians who are considered “First Nations” people was about 698,000 in 2006 – likely higher now. (Aboriginal Identity – 2006 Census)
The problem is that Canadians whom the US considers “US-persons” are an invisible, diffuse and assimilated minority. And for most, the “US-person” part is a distant or tenuous nexus. How many know that Barbara Frum or Honest Ed Mirvish would have now be considered “US tax residents abiding in Canada”? Both were US-born.
There’s every reason she’ll get FATCA’d Em, but let her try to get a SSN.
If I was her, I’d rather be stateless than a US citizen. Interesting that she tried to take advantage of being a US citizen at one point, it seems.
@NativeCanadian and @Em
I just tweaked my “Questions For My MP” a bit and submitted it. It is not very “polished” as I just finished another busy night shift and need my beauty sleep.
@Tim
At the risk of “outing” myself, I grew up on Campobello Island. I worked for several summers at Roosevelt Campobello International Park while attending university. The park is jointly administered by the Canadian government, the US government, the NB government and the ME government. At the park, I worked side-by-side with Americans. They got paid in US funds, we got paid in Canadian funds. All on a Canadian island. Campobello and Lubec ME are closely knit communities (for example, see: Bay of Fundy Marathon, http://bayoffundymarathon.com/ ) as are St Stephen and Calais ME (for example, see: International Homecoming Festival, http://www.internationalhomecomingfestival.com/ ). I am sure FDR must be rolling over in his grave knowing what the current Democrat administration is doing to the residents of his “beloved island”, many of whom were born in the US to Canadian parents. I (half)jokingly say that I consider the people still living in these border towns my “canaries in a coal mine” – once they cross into the US and don’t return, I will know it is not safe to go there anymore. With my mother still living on Campobello, for ten months of the year I have to travel through the US to visit her.
@Bubblebustin: The reason Doris’s children would not be considered US citizens is because she didn’t live in US for required time after age 14 (I think it’s five years). However, the US would still consider Doris a US citizen and a US person.
I wonder if she knows about FATCA and the IRS yet. What a nightmare for her. I haven’t been able to find any update on her. I certainly hope she didn’t get a US passport when she couldn’t get a Canadian one!
@CC: Thanks for outing yourself. That Campobello Island story is horrendous. I read abou three years ago that over 50% of people on the Island are affected by this. Unfortunately, that article no longer seems to be available.
David Alward, the Premier of New Brunswick is affected by this because he moved from US to NB when he was seven. Why is he quiet about all of this with so many New Brunswickers affected?
My apologies for sounding stupid here, but what exactly are these “submissions” you’re talking about? Are these just letters to the committee members discussing your concerns? Are there any requirements for these submissions?