From Life Behind the IRon Drape, a blog by Mark Hubbard which critiques New Zealand’s IRD (Inland Revenue Department):
FATCA: The (NZ) Officials’ Report – A Crime That Deserves a Revolution
Here is an excerpt from this powerful evisceration of New Zealand’s new tax policy report heralding that country’s own IGA with the US:
Yesterday IRD Tax Policy published a 310 page document, part of which was the officials’ response to the IGA between NZ and the US, and FATCA, and the submissions made against both by the public. That report becomes a good object lesson to all submitters of what a whitewash such exercises are, and what a sham our statist captured democratic processes have become. The report proper started at page 112 of the document: it is sadly unsurprising the first 111 pages dealt with what you might have thought was such a simple thing as how employee allowances are to be dealt with (such is the complexity of our taxing legislation). Although I could only make it to page 117 before my eyes were so blurred with tears of fury, and I had no interest in reading on, even in these five pages, look at what this report says about our society, and our world, in 2014.
New Zealand tax officials have just confessed, quite casually, to the creation of the full, one-world police surveillance state under the auspices, sorry, the outright bullying, of our US masters.
There are no Canadian laws being broken by anyone here, this is clear. Laws from other countries cannot be allowed to be enforced in Canada. Canada has privacy laws to protect ALL of it’s citizens. When you break your own privacy laws, you either give those citizens back to their country of origin, or you protect them PERIOD! We need desperately, a huge legal protest to gain the attention of the country’s people. Writing politicians only goes so far. The active politicians who support the victims of this need more support. We need to reach each and every one of the 2 million victims. Most have no idea and the government is hoping to keep it this way. I know of a farmer in the Chatham area who went into the hospital with a heart issue from this. He lived in Canada since 5 years old and just found out about Fatca through one of my neighbors who found out from me. His successful farming business gave him a net worth of over 3 million dollars. Now, the IRS will take around 1 million in fines and penalties. His family is furious. Why didn’t someone tell us? They said. Dammit, we need a huge protest… this must be stopped!!!
@Native Canadian,
Remember the current protections for Canadian citizens living in Canada from the IRS – is your Chatham farmer a Canadian citizen? You need to tell him to not panic and start learning. If he’s not a Canadian citizen he needs to start working on that right away. Has he been living as a US citizen in any way?
His bank(s) may not have any US indicia on him (and likely don’t if he has only been living as a Canadian).
The only people that have been hurt by the IRS so far are the ones who have voluntarily come forward. It is now well known to NOT enter the OVDP. He should keep account balances under $1M – this may require opening new accounts and moving money but there is time to do this before July 1. Help educate him, get him reading on Isaac Brock, tell him to attend Mr. Richardson’s info. session in Toronto on May 2.
No one knows how this will all play out – there is no certainty that the IRS will get one cent from him.
Unfortunately, learning that we are incompatible with the rest of the world has come too late for many. We must now act defensively – with or without the help of the countries where we reside.
As a byproduct of FATCA I am seeing some very strange happenings solely due to FATCA: US dual citizens married to non US Persons putting all of their assets/bank accounts and anything reportable in the non US Person spouse name (or if not married, then the ‘significant other’); companies in HK being opened and owned by the non US Person spouse or friend and that company opens a bank account that the US Person spouse has the Internet password/ability to access the account; and of course those US Persons who were not born in the US so their non US passport has no indicia of US personhood/place of birth and can fly under the radar holding the assets/bank accounts for their parents/relatives….all of these permutations and more…ALL due to the distortion of reality created by CBT and FATCA. All are risky but are tactics people are using to try to live a ‘normal’ life outside of the USA.
I’m glad I’ve always had my company under my name only since I am the non-US person. In 1998 when I started it, my accountant recommended I leave my husband off the business for Canadian tax purposes. We had no idea how helpful it would prove to be now that we’re living the FATCA nightmare.
My accidental American husband’s retirement money is out of reach since it’s not invested at a bank but held as shares in a small private company. Those shares can’t be sold until he retires or leaves the company, it’s part of the shareholders’ agreement. Even then the payout happens over a period of many years. The value of the shares is significant and I would be having bigger nervous breakdowns if his retirement funds were invested at a Canadian bank. Also because of the way the shares are structured, when he is given more shares he doesn’t have to pay tax on them, the tax part is deferred until he actually cashes them out when he retires at which time he would be in a lower tax bracket. I guess we lucked out there. All of our real assets are already untouchable.
@Steve Klaus
So true. Complying with our tax obligations actually exacerbates our dysfunction with the rest of the world, to the point where survival is difficult, if not impossible.
It’s becoming pretty clear that devising ways to circumvent the effects of citizenship based taxation will be our only way to thrive while living abroad, if one wants to remain a US citizen. That leaves the question: why would anyone want to remain a citizen under these circumstances?
@bubblebustin, I bet when the US government figures out that most so called US persons abroad have figured out ways to defend themselves against CBT, Congress will be looking for a way to strip as many people of US citizenship as possible. They do like to win and that will make them feel like they won something. Although to us here in Canada losing US citizenship is actually cause for celebration.
For our situation here, All of our assets are in my name. That is the only legal way we can do it. The Us IRS will be kept out of our lives this way. For many others, there is no way out. Those are the people we need to fight for. The way to fight the Canadian government is to fight fire with fire. If the government does illegal things, then we will as well. there is no other answer….
The US’s motto should be:
You can do things one of two ways. You can so things my way, or my way – pissed off.
@Steve Klaus
Yes, people are shifting ownership from US Person to Non US Person. Its easy to do in other countries. Other then in the US… alot of people have multiple residence so this is a huge mess. My family members have multiple residences where they spend a few months here & there… in some countries… u pay taxes only on what is made there…
@NativeCanadian
Since he is a farmer… is there an organization or whatever that word can be spread… so they can get involved? U will be surprised on how many US persons farm in canada…
US/Canada is so close… nobody thought anything about being a US person… When we were kids… we crossed back & forth… no biggie… Some people know about this crap… more people don’t…. I found out by accident… I spread the word but the problem is… more people don’t believe then believe… That is why gov’t is *hiding* this bs… who the heck has time to read the tax laws or study gov’t policy? We all had simple lives, we all saved & invested so none of us will have to live on cat food… I am not relying on any gov’t to support me when I am older… but I do expect my gov’t to protect me from foreign laws that are not laws in my country. If they can’t help me… stay the heck out of things that are none of their business… not help them nail us by changing all these laws that make me less of a citizen of my own country of birth and for some… country of choice
@omg…..yes strip me, strip me. Oh that feels so good
One other thought if someone needs to sell property. To sell a property and avoid FATCA in Canada, set up enough Credit Union accounts for under $50,000 each. If the sale of the house was for $500,000 for example, set up 12 credit union accounts. As the sales proceeds, ask the buyer’s solicitor to make $41666 X 11 to each separate account.
FATCA is bypassed and avoid a big lump sum showing up on FATCA data.
There will be many of these crazy situations until it’s resolved in the courts or a good document merchant raises his head.
@Don, I’ve lost track of who’s from where. Are you actually from Canada? Are you the fake passport guy?
@omgheestillanamerican, Desperate people think desperate thoughts. Smetimes you have to actually be in their particular shoes, to know their desperation. Whether it becomes in reality a legitimate concern or not, no one here knows for sure, just as no one here ever would have thought a few years ago, that USA would through FATCA be hunting down those born on its soil and those it deems to be ‘US persons’.
@WhiteKat, I hear you. The idea of setting up 12 Credit Union accounts just to sell your house seems unnecessary to me, at least in most real estate transactions in Canada.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t most Canadian real estate transactions happen through your lawyer’s trust account? Unless you’re cashing out a lot of equity or selling a house and not buying another one right away, I don’t see the point of setting up multiple accounts.
Also in Canada lawyers are supposed to be on the lookout for people trying to commit fraud and if you ask your seller’s lawyer for 11 separate payments, he’s probably going to freak out a little even if he doesn’t tell you.
Sorry I meant to say your buyer’s lawyer is going to freak out if you ask for 11 separate payments.
@omgheestillanamerican, Yeah, I would think a better way to deal with that situation would be to put the entire proceeds in a non-US person’s account first, and then divide it up afterwards in order not to trigger suspicion at the time of house sale. Another consideration is that if you are opening 12 new accounts, AFTER July 1, you will be going through the ‘US person’ screening process 12 times – better to have these accounts open before July 1. Another possible way out is to determine the bank rules regarding yearly reporting and the actual date used to determine account balance for the year. i.e. is it a December 31st balance or high balance for the year that triggers FATCA reporting for accounts over 50K?
@omgheestillanamerican @WhiteKat
No lawyer will be willing to cut checks for that many accounts.. Best way to do it is to do what @WhiteKat stated… get it out of the US person’s name and distribute another way. We are thinking that for the US persons… we will have nothing if possible… then family will take care of the expenses we incur. Stupid thing to do unless u really trust the person or family. I know for a fact my family won’t screw me over unlike my gov’t. For the kids we have with the US taint… they will give up the citizenship if they want… Instead of giving them a lump sum per yr… we will just pay their bills… so basically… we will have to wipe out all investments we have in their names, that was for their future… with the US taint… that is no longer an investment in their future but a noose around their neck until they get rid of the taint. I refuse to give up a loon to the US for mistakes we made that we have passed to our future generations. For the GC holders…how do we know they won’t figure a way to track us down… I rather be paranoid then broke…
Isn’t it interesting that the same thing that happened to corporations that were headquartered in the US is happening in a way to US persons?
Decades ago 85% of the top 20 corporations in the world were headquartered in the US. Now that number is reversed. The majority of the top 20 corporations are headquartered OUTSIDE the US due to the way the US taxes US Persons. Corporations with offices all over the world are also deemed “US Persons” for tax purposes if headquartered in the States.
In a way you could say families are changing their headquarters from the US Person to the non-US Person wherever possible by changing how they conduct their finances.
America still hasn’t learned the mistake they made with corporations, I doubt they’ll learn the mistake they’re making with individuals.
Biden famously said during the last campaign that he “wanted to tax the world”. I wonder how he would feel if Vladimir Putin said he wanted to tax the world.
@omgheestillanamerican
Probably… u can’t tax us americans… your laws ain’t ours…
Interesting… Obamacare web site may have gotten hit with that heart virus… They got no clues if anything is stolen…
Another heads up. On my original blog post – ahem, the one that started this discussion thread 🙂 – I asked any members of the New Zealand Left who had protested against our intelligence agencies at the time of NSA, PRISM, Snowden, et al, why they were not protesting FATCA.
One reply so far from Left Libertarian Carrie Stoddart-Smith on her blog Ellipsister. Well worth a read, and I’ll give the link at end of this comment, but first her summary:
For all the reasons above, I oppose FATCA and I encourage those who oppose the GCSB legislation to consider the implications of global information sharing based on an individuals citizenship and access to their financial accounts. You may buy into the ‘it targets the 1% who cares’ narrative, but FATCA is not about class. It is about privacy. It signifies the unacceptable encroachment of the State into the lives of every citizen. That is the dystopia we are heading for with FATCA.
Full blog piece at: http://ellipsister.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/fatca-nzs-insidious-future/
@Mark Hubbard
“These IGA’s are arguably evidence that the States who enter into them accept as a practice that intergovernmental information sharing through relaxation of domestic privacy laws is a developing norm. Additionally, that those States conceive of coercing private institutions to share private information about those who have accounts with them as acceptable State behaviour.”
Frightening is the NZ government’s open eagerness to sacrifice a portion of its population for what it says in NZ’s best interest – contibuting to yet another norm of behaviour. Sometimes I wonder if it isn’t just plain old anti-Americanism that’s got these countries so willing to throw what the US is doing back into the their face by treating US citizens like garbage.
Maybe the new international norm will be to treat US citizens like garbage, after all, they’d only be following the US’s lead, wouldn’t they?
omgheestillanamerican says @Don, I’ve lost track of who’s from where. Are you actually from Canada? Are you the fake passport guy?
———————
No he’s the fake Chinese drivers license guy from Hong Kong. Did you get the person who is behind this?
also did they ever find this fake?
Last seen in Sydney at APEC
@Mark Hubbard
Thank you for your original article and for your participation in this thread. Your recent postings about New Zealand’s response to the FATCA menace have vividly portrayed what is at stake, not just for your country, but for the entire world.
I was heartened to read Carrie Stoddart-Smith’s equally fearless response to your challenge to the Left. It is a very positive development to see members of opposing political spectra begin to engage in healthy, constructive debate about FATCA’s dangerous consequences. It is a conversation so badly needed in the birthplace of FATCA, the United States, and around the world – your example is thus both inspiring and crucial.
I would encourage both of you to continue this dialogue in mutual respect of each other’s important perspectives. I would also invite both of you to directly participate in our conversations here at Isaac Brock and over at Maple Sandbox. While we often resemble a rather big, messy tent, we are trying our best to get along with each other, saving our real enmity for the fight of our lives against CBT and FATCA. We need fellow travellers of all kinds, so welcome again.