From Life Behind the IRon Drape, a blog by Mark Hubbard which critiques New Zealand’s IRD (Inland Revenue Department):
FATCA: The (NZ) Officials’ Report – A Crime That Deserves a Revolution
Here is an excerpt from this powerful evisceration of New Zealand’s new tax policy report heralding that country’s own IGA with the US:
Yesterday IRD Tax Policy published a 310 page document, part of which was the officials’ response to the IGA between NZ and the US, and FATCA, and the submissions made against both by the public. That report becomes a good object lesson to all submitters of what a whitewash such exercises are, and what a sham our statist captured democratic processes have become. The report proper started at page 112 of the document: it is sadly unsurprising the first 111 pages dealt with what you might have thought was such a simple thing as how employee allowances are to be dealt with (such is the complexity of our taxing legislation). Although I could only make it to page 117 before my eyes were so blurred with tears of fury, and I had no interest in reading on, even in these five pages, look at what this report says about our society, and our world, in 2014.
New Zealand tax officials have just confessed, quite casually, to the creation of the full, one-world police surveillance state under the auspices, sorry, the outright bullying, of our US masters.
@WhiteKat
I get annoyed when the banks question when I move my funds… why is it your business… is it multi-millions? No… mind yours then… TD had the nerve to ask me when I moved some of my funds out.. what was the purpose of the move… this was done at the counter… my response was… my kid got a really expensive barbie habit we are supporting.. there was no response after that answer…lol. I have a hard time getting my banking service in english but when I move funds… all of a sudden… english becomes their natural language…
@Don,
Re: “Yes if you have a second passport you could change your name by deed poll, get a new second passport and go find someone to clone the new one. ”
What? I sure am confused now! But perhaps we should not even be talking about this here.
To get back on topic, I was so upset about NZ capitulating. What really bugged me was them saying that US citizens in NZ should reasonably know about US taxation, and thus the message is: ‘too bad, so sad, you should have been paying attention; its not the government’s problem, its yours for not being aware of your US obligation. Next.’
@Whitekat – I’m sure the USG has already thought about this possibility. People change their names by deed poll, apply for your second passport in your changed name, get the new one cloned (not legally of course) with your new place of birth (not US), and use the clone for your ‘financial’ life. The bank puts down your place of birth as you like, the IRS doesn’t get your data. All this continues on until the USG convinces the rest of the world it needs biometrics at the bank.
Of course that’s years down the road and nobody can say what the political landscape will look like. Will the US dollar still be the only reserve currency for example? Will resident citizens get a ‘carve out,’ by local courts? In today’s world 10 years is an awful long time.
It buys time. The longer it takes the US to implement FATCA the harder it’s going to be for them.
@Don,
I’m with you now, except for the part about the name change. Why not clone your current passport, and just change the birth place on the clone? Why change the name also?
@WhiteKat
Cause if u have a unique name… it will be easier to find u… If your name is Jane Smith… how many of those names are there in the world? And u may have a similar birthday… If your name is Rumpelstiltskin Smith… what of the chances u will be found out? Pretty good… In some countries.. the translation of the native name to english may cause a slight change also… so that may help
I hear ya about the nosey tellers asking why your making a withdrawal.. Or hell even trying to actually CASH a paycheck without depositing it. I feel like I always have to make up a story.. LOL my SO says to tell em its for Hookers and Blow…;)
@WhiteKat – Changing your name adds another ‘layer’ of protection. There is risk attached to this method, but it will work in the short term. If you ever get stopped by the police overseas, and have bank cards in your new name, you have a real passport and are entitled to those bank cards.
Leave the cloned one in a safe place but don’t carry it unless necessary.
Firstly, thanks to all the comments above concerning my header blog post, I’m finding following it interesting. A couple of quick points:
Looks like I may have over-played the Canadian government’s stance in the hero stakes. I’m totally unsurprised I was being overly optimistic about a gaggle of politicians. That paragraph of my article was from reading a single piece I’ve got annotated on another computer. We’ve got a houseful here for Easter, so I’ll put a link to that article up once I find it. As far as the Canadian response goes, the Canadians on this forum will have more reliable knowledge than my own.
Sort of off-topic, but sort of not either, as I see it coming up on this thread to do with FATCA, the issue of trouble around opening bank accounts, and having to ludicrously explain transfers of your own money to officials, is front and centre in New Zealand, thanks to another piece of legislation passed at end of 2013, also the result of US bullying, known as the ‘Anti-Money Laundering and Financing of Terrorism Act’.
If you’re interested I’ve written twice on ‘minor’ problems which I’m having professionally with it, both summed up on the following link, though I’ll give the Act a much more thorough analysis soon as to it’s particulars around banks having to report to government officials on ‘irregular’ transactions. Perhaps start with the Twitter thread I’ve put at end of post, then read from start if interested.
http://lifebehindtheirondrape.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/anti-money-laundering-and-countering.html
Needless to say, IRD can go to any NZ bank and get all details of a taxpayers transactions, and that taxpayer won’t even know. For those who understand how quickly the West is heading toward full big brother states, I’m afraid the banking system is no longer freedom friendly, given they’re by proxy information gathers for the taxing authorities.
Incidentally for Don – I think – above, Westpac bank here is currently trailing a biometrics ap which uses your thumb print rather than a password. Used right in a friendly environment it’s great for their customers in terms of convenience and security, but of course very soon it will be appropriated by state to solidify its ownership of every aspect of our lives.
When I get to a better computer than this iPad I’m on, I’ll create a link from my original blog post to this thread. Thanks to the IB member who put it up.
What we need to do in Canada is get support. We need to send out a huge cry for help as a MINORITY group. We need to send out to the other minority group leaders and get their group’s help to fight this. The Pakistani, East Indian, Muslim,Chinese, Polish, Italian, Native,Iranian, and ALL other MINORITY groups in Canada need to band together. Who will Canada give away next? People need to know they have NO protection and without each others help, any other group can be doomed as we are. Simply look at how the Canadian government “protected” us. This should speak LOUD and CLEAR to ALL minority groups. Lets get together and fight back!
@Whitekat
What really bugged me was them saying that US citizens in NZ should reasonably know about US taxation, and thus the message is: ‘too bad, so sad, you should have been paying attention; its not the government’s problem, its yours for not being aware of your US obligation. Next.’
Yes, this is what totally bugs me as well. This just shows that unless you are one of the “targets” no one can understand. Why they would expect a Kiwi, born in the US, who has been living here since a child (or someone born here to a US parent) to know anything about their so-called “obligations” and need to file FBARs etc., is beyond me. It’s infuriating.
@Osgood – Once again it goes back to the all resident citizens are equal under the law, I guess the NZ government is another one leaving it NZ courts rather than take ‘their’ responsibility to their own citizens.
Exploit the weak KYC ‘Know Your Customer’ rules at the banks while legal action gathers pace. The banks train something like this, take an 18 year old banking clerk and sit them at a PC to watch the bank’s KYC video and expect them to police FATCA.
Polished documents at this point will bypass FATCA and the USG knows it. When banks become like passing through immigration at the airport then the USG has won and renouncing will probably be the only answer save legal victories.
The USG has an uphill battle implementing and fine tuning FATCA and that will take at least another 5 years bar any unforeseen legal hurdles thrown in the way by enraged ex-pats.
Delaying implementation is the best weapon because the USG knows the US Dollar’s days of being the sole reserve currency are numbered. They trying to build a system to stop capital flight when that day comes and the ability to tax ex-pats if they choose to defect.
The writing is on the wall.
Interesting comment thread and I enjoyed reading everyone’s contribution. I think it is time that all potentially affected by this terrible law and CBT policy take measures on thier own to protect themselves. The actions by all of the governments that have capitulated show us how frail our rights really are when big money is at stake and governments are threatened by the US. It’s amazing how this has transpired but hopefully, if the Republicans get the Senate and keep the House they can defund FATCA and if by some miracle they get the White House in 2016 they can then repeal as they have said in thier platform. It’s a long shot.
@Steve Klaus
The Republicans are stating this is their stance… for now… cause it it a hot topic for fund raising & potential votes… but I don’t think anything will come of it… I don’t trust either side nor either govts… The only thing I will believe is the down fall of this stupid law… for a country that is suppose to be home of the free… they sure are tying everyone who is touched by the US taint… as free banks & slaves… Every single agenda for the US has been… terrorist this… terrorist that… all they keep doing is chaining US persons & ensure they don’t make a good living abroad… And they don’t give a flip about the middle class until we become gone. I tell all I know or met… don’t go to the US.. u are better off elsewhere… more welcoming…
Get to know those who would steal from and destroy you and your families and business associates. If you don’t feel comfortable with these entities knowing EVERYTHING about you and using your money to keep the county’s military industrial sector going and killing and waging war against any and all perceived or imagined enemies then why are you doing business with them?
See Canadian Bankers Assoc. Search for list of member banks
http://www.cba.ca/en/component/content/category/56-member-banks
WOW DON!! yes unforseen occurrences and when we start inventing some then we will be empowered to be offensive not defensive
Creating or procuring a false document is a very serious crime in Canada. Using same in Canada is a very serious crime. This is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
It is one thing for a Canadian Citizen in Canada to state that they will not or simply can not follow a law of a foreign land of which they have no allegiance to. A Canadian Citizen can not be expected to follow the laws of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, France or even the USA.
It is another thing entirely for a Canadian Citizen in Canada to think about or take action upon using false documents. That is Canadian Law in the sovereign territory of Canada.
The law is the law and while it may be an ass, it needs to be followed. The Parliament is setting down the rules. Follow the rules to the letter and expect them to follow the rules to the letter, demand that they follow the rules to the letter.
What is likely to pass Parliament is horrendous, however individuals have the ability to follow that law, demand that others follow that law with respect to them, and to have their lives essentially unchanged from years past. That does not mean that the fight in Court ends, rather the fight in Court begins.
Individuals commenting on this site to such activities does the cause of defeating the IGA in Court no good as it may bring that cause into disrepute.
It is one thing for a Canadian Citizen who has knowingly relinquished his other citizenship (documented or undocumented), whatever it may be, or for one who has never “claimed” that other citizenship, to formally state for the record that they are only and solely Canadian. That is an inalienable right.
Further, the individuals which one would have to work with to procure such documents are likely fraudsters and would steal your identity!!
Do not talk about it, do not do it, no good will come from it.
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@Concerned maple leaf….. Don’t tell me the law is the law. This government breaks the laws and gets away with it. The people need to take back their country from the thiefs and fraudsters we call our government. This is a wake up call for action…. sorry, just being truthful. If you want to see the law, go as Canadian Cop for a list of his unanswered “lawful” questions this “law abiding” government refuses to answer…..
Concerned Maple Leaf – yes I agree procuring a cloned second passport with a different place of birth is a criminal matter, however, it needs to be balanced off with the draconian measures the USG and IRS is hitting US ex-pats with.
Personally I would roll the dice on a Canadian jury stating I pay all my Canadian taxes, I wasn’t trying to hide my identity to the CRA only my place of birth to avoid foreign taxation by the US. If I was sitting on a jury it would be not guilty every time. These laws about duplicated documents were passed to prevent illegal immigration not FATCA. FATCA wasn’t on the radar screen and the authors of these laws would’ve never envisioned the US demanding data from Canadian banks. Now if a Canadian prosecutor wants to put a middle class hard working Canadian in the same class of illegal immigrants or terrorists or drug barons – good luck.
The letter of the law was to stop evil and unwanted people entering Canada with false documents. The spirit of the law wasn’t intended to protect the USGs tax base. There’s a fair chance the spirit of the law would prevail in this case. The prosecutor is basically asking jurors to vote against Canada.
Another prediction – The US Congress will attempt to pass another extraterritorial law making it an offense to procurement false documents with the purpose of bypassing FATCA.
How far is this going to go? Countries that sign up to IGAs are on the slippery slope to further US demands.
The USG has many resources to wage this war of attrition against its ex-pats. The only options is for ex-pats to pick their battles carefully not unlike guerrilla warfare in the past.
There’s an open market now for someone to provide ex-pats cloned passports to make a profit. Ex-pats in individual countries can mount legal challenges to re-dress the rights of citizenship locally. The USG is in a hurry to ‘normalise’ FATCA has the new way of banking before the US Dollar loses sole reserve currency status.
Delay… Delay… Delay and exploit the weakness of documents until FATCA is settled in a final format. Also educate educate educate the citizens of other countries, but be warned, $billions have been spent on telling people not to smoke and that battle is only starting to turn the tide in Western countries somewhat after 50 years.
Make no mistake FATCA is ‘work in progress,’ and the US’ version will not be the final version, it will be what ex-pats and citizens of other countries are willing to accept.
@Concerned Maple Leaf, I share your concerns re: false documents. They make an innocent person look guilty as hell.
It’s bad enough the predicament we’re in but to compound it further with our own stupidity is completely unnecessary.
Let me give you an example of a guy in the US who had done some stock market shenanigans which likely would have got him only a few years in jail if he’d been convicted. Most of what the government charged him with he was not found guilty of but what really did him in is that he created false travel documents and traveled across the US with them with the intention of eventually leaving the US and traveling to Lebanon. While traveling within the US he was stopped by Airport security and interrogated and his false identity was quickly discovered. Due to the additional complications he himself created, he ended up being sentenced to 11 years in prison when he really should have been doing 2 or 3.
@Concerned Maple Leaf – Never use the clone for travelling – only the bank. You’ll a real passport in your new name. Why would you?
Folks – I don’t think anyone should start to talk about getting faked passports etc. Things have not come remotely to that point. If you wish a passport that does not reveal your place of birth, there’s a form for that. From the Canadian passport application:
“Place of birth
Your place of birth must be provided on the application form. If you do not wish the place of birth to appear in the passport, submit form
PPTC 077, Request for a Canadian passport without a place of birth, available online at passportcanada.gc.ca.”
It’s a lot simpler to do it legally!
Anyone who procures false documents should not be allowed to participate in any way in a court challenge against FATCA. Choose which path you want to take, realizing that they are divergent.