64 thoughts on “2014 IRS Survey for U.S. Persons Overseas: Non-filers, identified by comparing names on “IRS non-filer database” with passport data from U.S. Department of State, will be “invited” to participate in survey”

1. I received a similar survey from the same company in 2011 about two weeks after I was coerced into sending the IRS a cheque for just under $80K for penalties relating to non-filing of FBARs. The letterhead looked fake to me, and I could not get through to the 800 number (which never works from outside the US anyway). The paper would have ignited if I had written on it my enraged feelings of betrayal and injustice, which are still with me every night of the week. My stupidity was to be naive enough to enter the 2009 “amnesty” because, as a law-abiding citizen, I had always filed US tax returns (zero tax owing) and thought I would be “forgiven” for not knowing about FBARs. Forewarned is forearmed….

2. “ICF International, formerly known as ICF Consulting, is a management, technology, and policy consulting firm based in Fairfax, Virginia. Wikipedia
   Is that near Langly?”

   Just a comforting thought: northernstar. Langley, VA is 21 minutes drive from Fairfax. ~evil grin~

3. Northernstar – Yep…very close to the spook-agency.

   https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VpxqpdR-xZU/U0hscCUPfbI/AAAAAAAAB2s/sGD3B2p-19Y/w558-h505-no/Langley-Fairfax.jpg

4. Anne Boleyn, your story always makes my blood boil. Your “naivety”; my “naivety and stupidity” / our costs hopefully will be lessons to others, the main reason I am here so often. A bit of possible preventative information for others new to this.

   As I read of monalisa’s comment to “lawfulresident” on another thread, http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/06/01/softquiet-disclosures-are-an-irs-trap-like-ovdi/comment-page-2/#comment-1420803, and know all she’s been through, it reminds me that we all have to do our own hard drudge work (per Just Me) on this and after much research come to our own decisions. That just IS a necessary process. A “someone” cannot get a ready answer for what to do from any one person but will eventually understand better and find some solutions to work better than others for them.

   So unfair; so life-changing, no matter the decision. I hope an information session given by John Richardson in either Calgary, April 19, or Edmonton, April 20, will be useful to some Albertans new to all of this complexity to be able to form the best decisions for them and their families: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/04/solving-the-problems-of-u-s-citizenship-information-sessions/

5. Anne Boleyn — is that your real name? She was the third wife of Henry the 8th around 1500 and was Queen of England for 3 years but was ordered beheaded by her husband when she failed to have children. No much different than OVDP, they behead your savings. I know of another Broker who ended up paying ca. 100K in cap gain on principle residence and FBAR penalties. I have golden ticket now at least..

6. @ Anne Boleyn – OMG!! That’s beyond terrible.

7. @Anne Boleyn

   I don’t know your particular circumstances, but are you aware that some 2009 OVDI participants are having some of these penalties refunded to them?

   http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-05-24/news/31827561_1_ovdp-offshore-accounts-irs

8. Anne Boleyn (1501-1536) was the second wife of Henry VIII (he had six wives and executed two of them). She failed to produce a male heir but did give Henry a child – the famous Elizabeth I.

   Elizabeth lived through some precarious times in her life. When she was young she was imprisoned in the Tower of London by her older half-sister Mary I. During her reign she survived assassination attempts.

   She was a survivor and we must all keep faith that we will survive FATCA, which I view as “institutional” injustice. Innocent people are being made to feel like criminals. Something is seriously wrong with the world that we all used to believe in when an innocent person gives the USG $80K for the unjust application of a law nobody knew anything about. The true criminal is the USG.

9. Amen, Mr. A!

10. Mr. A thanks for getting the facts straight. I seems that being an English monarch in the middle ages was more dangerous than venturing out in the streets of NYC in the 1980s. It fun to inject history into our discussions about IRS injustice.

11. @Anne Boleyn, kermitzii, I too have acquaintances who paid the IRS around $70K under a quiet disclosure to settle up when one of them renounced last year. Besides the personal cost to them, it astounds and galls me that the U.S. thinks it has a right to extract that amount of money, entirely acquired in Canada, from a couple one of whom was a U.S. citizen who came here in the early 1970s, became a Canadian citizen, and spent his entire career here. Multiply that by the number of similar U.S. duals and one can get a rough estimate how much the U.S. thinks it has a right to extract of wealth from Canada and other countries that provide residence to U.S. citizens.

    And it amazes me that other Canadians don’t seem to care that the U.S. is extracting wealth that way. Why does our own government concede the “right” of the U.S. to tax its citizens however it wants to, regardless of the effect of stealing wealth from Canada?

12. So they did this a couple years ago and now they have to spend more time/money to do it again? What a waste. Why don’t they just talk to the Dept of State and ask what people are saying or putting on their forms? Why don’t they read the newspapers from outside the US to see what is being said? Really, what they want is self-identification, not serious suggestions bcause they don’t have to money or staff to add any services anyway.

13. Yes, Northstar, Fairfax & Langley are reasonably close to each other; close to the pentagon and all kinds of other US secrative agencie…..

14. @AnonAnon, “Canadians don’t seem to care that the U.S. is extracting wealth that way” because they either don’t know about it, don’t believe that such is happening or they don’t think that it will happen to them.

    I’d say that regardless of how one looks at it, individuals living outside of US jurisdiction don’t need to be stressed or burdened with such issues, meaning that it makes the most sense for them to renounce. There is no point in being a US citizen under these conditions. America is not worth such stress.

15. I finally read this posting just now (busy busy day over here). My first response was “HA!! AS IF!!!” (I won’t fill out any online survey for any damn thing, let alone THIS TRAVESTY!! What a transparent attempt to ferret out “non-filers”! SHEESH…16% filled this out? omg….just…omg

16. @LM, technically, all the IRS needs to do is to provide free and simple online filing which allows non-US addresses and doesn’t need a tax preparer. This could mean filing the non-US tax forms that one fills out for the local jurisdiction where one lives. An expat shouldn’t have to do the same work twice and an expat also shouldn’t be double-taxed on the same income. In otherwords, if the IRS needs to know anything, then it should know that they filed taxes to the local tax authority where they live.

17. Isn’t the whole premiss that we are supposed to help our abuser abuse us?

18. I would tear it up without a second thought.

19. @Steve Klaus, so would I. And so, I suspect, have many other people in the past. The report linked to by MyKitty shows a 32% response rate. This implies a lot of non-response bias in the results. Survey results only reflect the views of people disposed to respond to the survey, and the folk most dissatisfied with the IRS are those most likely to tear up the survey in disgust.

20. @bubblebustin
    Thank you for the link – I had not realized that some people had received refunds. When I signed the 906 I agreed not to appeal in any way. However if my case has to go back to the same IRS agent, there would not be much chance for me. When I get a bit stronger, I might ask the advice of the second lawyer who represented me and managed to get the first fine reduced to the one mentioned in the previous post.
    @Mr. A and kermitzii
    I chose Anne Boleyn for the reasons you outlined, and also because I spent a lot of time at her father’s country retreat in England: Rochford Hall in Essex. It became a golf club and my father was a member.

21. @Anne Boleyn – See the bottom of FAQ 52 in the 2011 OVDI program. It clearly states that if you meet the conditions for the 5% penalty, you can get a refund, even if you have signed a 906 Closing Agreement.
    http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/2011-Offshore-Voluntary-Disclosure-Initiative-Frequently-Asked-Questions-and-Answers

    The conditions are:
    1. Resident abroad for all years of the program
    2. Tax compliant abroad
    3. Less than USD 10k in US source income for each year of the OVDP

    For your case, having to pay anything seems like a crime, but you could get at least $60,000 back this way and even more if your house value was included in the OVDP penalty calculation as it will be removed if you meet the above conditions.

    I don’t think there is an option for people to be reconsidered under the Streamlined Program, only the 5% penalty.

    You will be assigned to an agent, but it will not necessarily be the same agent. The rules are there in black and white and the IRS has to follow them. If they are not followed, the Taxpayer Advocate will take up your case. Waiting time is unclear and I would not expect a quick response, as the address to send you request to is almost the same as the OVDI Program. The good news is that your money will be refunded with interest.

    The less than $10k US source income is hard for some to meet so I hope that does not limit you. My agent qualified me for the 5% penalty. In spite of that, I opted out because I felt that the program was such a travesty and injustice. I was successful and received no tax or FBAR penalties.

    I, like you, was also a filer. Ironically, if I had been retired when I was in OVDI, I would have never qualified for the 5% penalty as the years I worked in the States have qualified me for Social Security and a teeny tiny pension that would bring me just over the USD 10k amount. It shows again how fundamentally flawed the OVD programs are when someone’s Social Security benefits would require them to pay a higher penalty, even when no tax is owed.

22. Not amusing to see the Brock data morass now being menaced by thread compliance cops.

    If this comment is off-topic, then so is the verbal baton that swings above.

    Reductio ad absurdum

    Or exercise privilege to emulate the IRS and say my way is whatever I say and who cares if it is absurd.

23. @Anne Boleyn – If for some reason the bottom of FAQ 52 does not apply to you, also read FAQ 53. Maybe you would qualify for the 12.5% penalty.

24. You know what pisses me off the most? That we should even be having to ask if any of us “qualify for a lesser penalty”…I mean REALLY??? WTF! NO ONE of us who DOES NOT live in the US should have to pay a f…ing RED CENT to those F…ers! My blood boils and steam comes out of my ears just reading that innocent people have been ROBBED by the IRS like this!!!@#$%%^$@

25. @USX

    If you have a problem with “thread compliance cops” you are more than welcome to contact me as listed above.