I’ve said it. Others have said it. We admit in the past supporting the Conservative government with our vote and, in some cases, with our donations. Now? We cannot vote for a party which fails to fulfill what is arguably the number one mandate of any government: to provide protection for the citizens of Canada. This government plans to hand over the financial information of loyal Canadian citizens to the IRS, a criminal branch of the foreign government laying in wait at our Southern border. This treachery will not go unpunished. Consider the following comment:
I know that we can’t expect any help from our Conservative government, but I am feeling a bit better today. I am a Canadian business owner with an accidental American spouse. I have always supported the Conservatives, occasionally with donations. I made a pledge a while back, after a phone solicitation, but did not send it in. A representative from the party called me to ask where my donation was, and I happily told her she wasn’t getting one, not now , or ever for that matter. She asked why and I told her it was because of the government`s position on FATCA. I had to spell it for her, but she assured me she would pass the info on.
Please make more comments like this. Please comment especially if you were voting conservative and now will refuse to do so. My wife is a business owner. But next election night, I am going to take Mrs. Petros out to dinner, buy her flowers, go to a movie, and thus completely distract her. So for every one former Tory voter who is a so-called US citizen, whose the government plans to commit extraordinary rendition of their bank account information, the Tory government will likely lose at least two votes.
I remember the big squabble over the gun control law and the Harper government. Harper backed down but then again gun control in the States is a joke. He is a copycat after all. Where are our guys here in Canada with a big voice that could help us to get the “F” word out? They were certainly able to stand their ground and got government attention. They have been through this before and some of them have to have US strings attached. Anybody?
Thanks, calgary411.
Brent Rathgeber, Member of Parliament (and former Conservative), should be an inspiration to Brockers to keep communicating to Harper’s gang. Maybe more of them can be shaken loose.
Gaze at navels for signs of permutations of past and possible party allegiances.
Console a soldout serf self by fantasizing the power of casting a vote for a system.
LTA (lobby the authorities) and DTM (do the media) as obeisance to a phantom of freedom.
The ravenous king is always Moloch – literally.
@FuriousAC In answer to your question “When did this happen?” I think the better question is Why do we allow it to happen. We continually spin our wheels voting out one corrupt government after another. It is time to envision a new model. One that is controlled by the people not a group of shysters we elect every 4 years. Democracy is hard work and requires more than marking an X on the ballot every for years. Your question ‘Who do we trust?”- We trust ourselves.We have to stop seeing ourselves as children looking for leadership and start to determine our own destiny.Perhaps this group has the right idea.http://www.springtidecollective.ca/#!/about
@Disgusted
you are very correct we have to trust ourselves and we ourselves but sacrifice and get involved. Be watchers who speak out, participants, get people wanting to vote for the issues that help our country and people and vote out the elite.
It is not an easy task. We have to give up time, money and take on more stress. We must become WE the People
@ northernstar
You’re speaking my language.
The thing is that most people will still vote their pocketbooks and personal self-interest and will vote Con even if the disagree with other issues that Harper and his minions represent, so the trick is to get more people to believe that Harper’s more interested in his social and stripping us of our rights agenda than he is in economic issues and that other parties are just as capable of propping up the economy as Conservatives.
A tall order, I think. Having been raised in the US, I have a hard time equating the Canadian version of conservatism with what I grew up knowing as conservatism. I really haven’t met anyone who is truly conservative in my time as a resident – nearly a citizen – of Canada. Canadians, generally, lean to the left of US Democrats and sometimes even quite a bit farther.
I guess it is all perception. Harper votes need a perception adjustment. I am not sure that JT or Mulcair are giving them that though.
Bill Casey was the former MP for Cumberland – Colchester – Musquodoboit Valley where I live. He voted against the Conservatives’ 2007 budget after Harper reneged on the Atlantic Accord. Casey stood up for his constituents and Harper kicked him out of the party. The local Conservative Riding Association renominated Mr Casey as its candidate for the 2008 election. Harper refused to allow Mr Casey back in the party. The riding association president, Scott Armstrong, and other executive members, stood by Mr Casey and were suspended. On October 14, 2008, Mr Casey was re-elected as an independent by winning 69% of the popular vote (including me). This was more than double all the other candidates combined.
The Vancouver Province reported the situation here:
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=7e3ff339-6f5b-439d-a78e-75695e059f45
Scott Armstrong eventually replaced his mentor as the MP for this riding. He obviously learned from this experience. He went from being someone who stood on principle and supported the constituents in his riding (through supporting Mr Casey against Harper) to someone who dares not cross Dear Leader because he knows the consequences. I called Armstrong before the first time I voted for him and asked if he was a progressive or a conservative, explaining that if he was a progressive I would be voting for the Christian Heritage candidate and thus spoiling my ballot. He assured me he was a conservative and got my vote, but my observations since indicate that he is a progressive – and that he is not willing to stand on principle like his predecessor.
I have managed to hold my nose and continue to vote Conservative through that debacle and even after the income trust flip-flop decimated my children’s RESP’s just when they needed them. This FATCA betrayal is something I cannot tolerate. To sacrifice Canadian sovereignty and allow the US to dictate that our Charter of Rights and Freedoms can be applied arbitrarily is something I will never accept. That I feel closer to Charlie Angus and Elizabeth May than I do to this gang of alleged Conservatives is an indication of how far they have strayed from doing what is “right”.
I can no longer support these hypocrites. They say one thing about bullying, then let the bully take our lunch money. They say “we stand on guard for thee”, but out of the other side of their mouths say the US can deem whoever they want as US persons, then subject them to whatever they want, even if they are Canadian citizens living in Canada. The word disgrace comes to mind when I think of Harper now. He has shown his true colours (again).
They say “politics makes strange bedfellows”. There are many people here (@Em jumps to mind for one!) who I would normally find little in common with politically. Yet from all across the political spectrum, we are united in our disdain for what Harper has done. You could say the other parties would have done the same thing (but they did not) and that it is easier in opposition to take a stand as there are no real consequences. The fact is this bill was supported only by Conservatives, even though there have to be many backbenchers who do not agree with it – they know how Harper deals with dissidents. If there are no Bill Casey’s left in the Conservative party, they do not deserve to have the keys to this country. I will not vote Conservative in the next election – I have yet to decide whether to vote ABC (strategically) or Christian Heritage (sentimentally) – if they continue to run a candidate. Let’s hope that the Conservatives fate in the 1993 election is repeated if they continue to pursue this folly through such deceit, hiding FATCA in an omnibus bill to stifle debate.
Having said all that, I would like to say to @Em, “If I admit that the Greens and the Dippers would be better for Canada right now that this current manifestation of ‘Conservatives’, will you admit that what the US needs right now is the Tea Party?”
@ Canadian Cop
Hmmmm, the Tea Party? — the Koch brothers’ involvement disturbs me. Actually I’m not on board with part of the Greens platform but no party strikes all the right chords with me. For me the NDP went up several notches when it had Layton at its head but not so much with Mulcair (a style issue). So my answer … maybe. The US certainly needs something that isn’t one of the two rotten apples it always gets and Canada desperately needs someone who understands sovereignty. Harper does not. Last election I was lucky to have a Canadian Progressive Party candidate to vote for and it turned out that was a good choice because they held the Toronto FATCA Forum back in 2012. (BTW, I didn’t know about FATCA at the time of the election.)
https://www.youtube.com/user/FATCAForum/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=list
@ Canadian Cop You’ve proved my point. The ruling party fills their cabinet with lap dogs who serve the master and not the constituents. We perpetually elect a benign dictatorship, it’s time to think outside the box and come up with an improved model. It makes no difference which party forms the government their only interest is self preservation. This system is short sighted it never goes beyond their mandate.
@Em
It seems to me Canadian’s seem to get one of two rotten apples. Does Powercorp’s influence not disturb you?
http://arcticcompass.blogspot.ca/2010/01/paul-desmarais-web-of-influence-over.html
I consider myself to be an independent and will vote Liberal or Conservative depending on the character of the people and their policies. I consider Harper and his minions to be complete groveling toadies to the United States government. These people will sell out Canada and Canadians in a heartbeat if it’s in their own interests. Let’s face it, the only reason Harper sent troops to Afghanistan was to please the U.S. All his foreign policy pronouncements are in lock step with the U.S. governments. Canada needs government leaders who will carry on a policy of nation independence and respect for Canada’s sovereignty. Harper is a disgrace!
@ Disgusted
Yes. I wish politicians would work towards the common good not the corporate good but I know that is not how it works. The implementation of FATCA in Canada is a prime case of institutional concerns trumping individuals’ concerns. Maybe it’s my faulty perception but I think the USA is deeper into the muck of corporatocracy (i.e. government run for the benefit of corporations) than Canada. However, maybe it’s just a matter of time before there’s hardly any difference between the two.
Why can we not see beyond the two bad apples?
Sponsorship scandal: Breaking all the rules
Pepper spray, tainted tuna and miracle cucumbers have all played their part in Canada’s long tradition of political misconduct. Be it lack of judgement or for personal gain, politicians misbehave. They get caught. The public is outraged. Then all is pretty much forgotten. And the cycle starts again. From John A. Macdonald and the Pacific railway fiasco to the sponsorship affair, CBC Archives looks back at some of the biggest scandals, boondoggles and white elephants in Canadian politics.
http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/politics/federal-politics/scandals-boondoggles-and-white-elephants/sponsorship-scandal-breaking-all-the-rules.html
It is regrettable that this thread has turned into a consistent anti-CPC, anti-Harper bashing fest.
I have my differences with the CPC; FACTA is one example; the fact that the CBC continues to receive CAD 1 billion annually, instead of privatizing this entity is a second example. And yet, one must look at the overall picture and the alternatives, otherwise one descends to the level of a teenager who curses his dad because dad imposes curfew. Overall, we’ve had an efficient, fiscally-responsible government that navigated us excellently through the turbulent economic waters of the recent years. Nothing even remotely close to ADSCAM has tainted the CPC government.
As to the alternatives, the situation is clear. Abstaining is, essentially, voting for all parties in proportion to the vote of the total population, so this option is off the table. What remains is one party headed by the substitute drama teacher who “actually admires China”, and a second party headed by the Socialist who elected to seek French citizenship. And yes, there exists a third party headed by a lady whose policy it is to sabotage the Canadian economy by opposing the development of our natural resources.
So yes, while I am not a member of the CPC, I will vote for this party. Come to think of it, perhaps I should join the party…
The one thing the Cons have never talked about with Fatca is what protections actual victims have from the IRS once they have your information and want their extorted money. As a Canadian, it needs to be common knowledge that you have NO PROTECTION by the Canadian government when fines and penalties are levied. The Canadian government simply stated “we will not collect” on IRS fines etc., however, they do not say you are protected within Canadian borders from US authorities. If you think you are safe from them, you are kidding yourself. They will walk right into Canada and take whatever they want. If this was the case with several other minority groups here in Canada, there would have easily been bloodshed by now. How things have stayed calm to this point,I have no idea. After all, what are LAWS when the people who enforce them at a country’s highest level break them and are not prosecuted themselves..
@dt804a
I take your point to the extent that the other parties all have their warts. I have some trouble determining which to support. HOWEVER, there is only one party who in my estimation is actually committing treason by giving up Canada’s sovereignty to a bully, that being the Conservatives. They are also willfully violating the rights of Canadians despite solid legal advice to the contrary. All this is being done under the leadership of the chief traitor, being Stephen Harper. Also committing this treason by hiding it in the back of an omnibus budget bill only demonstrates what a coward he is. So if you wish to describe this thread as a anti-Harper bashing test, I say there is good reason and he deserves much more than this. It will be -40C in hell before I vote Conservative.
The only thing Harper and his cronies understand is raw power. That’s why he so quickly bows down to the U.S. government. The only thing that would get their attention is the fear of having their snouts pulled out of the public trough. We are a million strong in Canada and we need to let them know that our votes are against them and we could seriously contribute to their being turfed out.
Harper and Obama will only respond when something is going to effect them negatively. They don’t care about the people they are supposed to serve or about the cause of justice.
When Citizenship Based Taxation is under assault through the legal challenge in Canada and it looks like they are going to lose, both Harper and Obama will suddenly become the most accommodating people in the world. They will allow an easy out for us like they should have all along.
By attacking middle class expats, they risk losing the fatcats too. They will never let go of CBT (there are too many rich Americans out there) but they will make exceptions for the rest of us like they did with Obamacare for US residents. Have you seen how many ways he’s changed Obamacare all on his own when it looked like the thing was going to die? It became comical.
It’s too bad that we have a government whose job it is to uphold our laws but has chosen to betray not only us but our country and what it stands for. This betrayal will never be forgotten. It’s time for a new kind of Conservative party, one that doesn’t find it so easy to commit treason. We need a Conservative party that understands the definition of sovereignty.
Maybe Harper responds to extortion because he is an extortionist? Otherwise why not allow a free vote.
@OMG, “They will allow an easy out for us like they should have all along. ”
Spot on observation. He unilaterally changed dozens of definitions likely illegally to make it work.
Unilaterally, we could see the definition of foreign account changed which is a perfect fix.
@dt804a
Please re-read this post’s title, and Petros’ introduction to the post:
“We cannot vote for a party which fails to fulfill what is arguably the number one mandate of any government: to provide protection for the citizens of Canada.”
For many, your list of objections to the political alternatives pales in comparison to Harper’s failure.
@dt804a
This thread is titled “How many formerly loyal voters will now abandon the Harper party?” I think this in itself invites a certain amount of Harper bashing. I think those posting here have been quite restrained,perhaps because the administrators are addressing their concerns with people getting off topic.
I have no issue with Harper.I take issue with a system that grants too much power to one indivdual.
I take issue with a system that doesn’t allow free votes, where MP’s are forced into towing the party line instead of advocating for those they were elected to serve. I take issue with omnibus bills where a vote means it is either all or nothing. I take issue with a government that negotiates in secret with private corporations and not with the citizens it represents. I take issue with a government who has committed a genocide on the Native population. I listen on the CBC to a whole lot of Truth but no Reconciliation.
I take issue with Canadians who fail to realize that our tax payer dollars pay their salaries. WE are their BOSS not the other way around. We need to demand accountability.
I have spent many hours discussing the failings of our government with Duff Conacher, founder of Democracy Watch. In Duffs opinion the structure in which our government operates needs to change to make it more Democratic Read More:
http://democracywatch.ca/definition-of-democracy/
Duff was called to testify this week as an expert witness in the House of Commons in regards to the Fair Elections Act. I sat through several hours of testimony from six expert witnesses, former Auditor General Sheila Fraser being one of them, and the unanimous conclusion was there was nothing fair about the Fair Elections Act.
Canadians deserve a higher standard of Government and not just in regards to soveriegnty. We the people should set the rules in which OUR Government operates. Without the rules in place it is irrelevant as to which which party is steering the ship.
Once upon a time, fed up with Liberal Party shenanigans and the Quebec AdScam sponsorship scandal, I voted for and made financial contributions to the Conservative Party.
Never again!
For now, I’m making equal contributions to Green, Liberal and NDP – and letting them know why.
Our current political system is deeply flawed. However, for now it is an important front to fight this on. For Canadians, tactical suggestions:
– Contribute whatever you can to the opposing parties – there’s a tax credit that offsets a good % of the contribution – and let them know why you’re doing so.
– If you are in Conservative riding, let them know they have lost your vote and your family’s support – tell them why. Tell them that you always vote, and influence the way your family and friends vote. Voter turnout in Canada was only 61% in the last election – so committed voters are valuable.
– If you are in one of the opposition parties’ ridings, lobby your MP and encourage them to rally behind Hsu, Brison, Nash, Rankin, Angus, etc. Let them know you are paying close attention to this issue. So many people in Canada ignore politics – by simply being engaged and knowledgeable (for example by thanking them for remarks in Question Period) you may stand out.
– A friend who works in an MP’s local riding office says most of the correspondence he gets is asking for assistance with specific personal issues – immigration, disability, UIC disputes, etc. Constituents who are issue and policy motivated may stand out.
– If you believe – as some have suggested – the Canadian FATCA IGA was a backroom quid pro quo for the Keystone pipline’s approval, then maybe support one of the anti-Keystone groups that are working against it. IF Keystone approval was a tacit trade-off for the IGA (and that’s a big IF…), non-fulfillment of the US side of the deal could affect the Harperites’ appetite for submission.
This thread has had a most salubrious effect on me, for, reading the endless chain of rants against our PM got me thinking that I should not merely vote for the CPC, but in fact join it.
Here is a thought: If the agents of one or more of the 3 opposition parties wanted to demoralize CPC supporters, it could have no better strategy than organize five or six operatives to post derogatory comments on a blog such as this, and dismiss anyone who counter-posted. I am not claiming that this has indeed happened, but I do claim that objectively, posts such as the one placed by @Wondering (above) serve the purpose I outlined.
It will take way to long to refute the derogatory statements made against our PM in this forum. But countering hate with the positive, I suggest that you check out the top 10 achievements of the CPC, as outlined at
http://www.conservative.ca/?page_id=3934
This list doesn’t even come close to listing all the achievements. Consider foreign policy, for example. Our PM’s government answered the Russian assault on Ukraine with vim and vigour, punching well above our stature. Or consider the policy towards Israel, the one true democracy in the Middle East for hundreds of miles around.
Before I sign off, a brief response to @disgusted re the Fair Election Act: May I humbly suggest that you listen to the evaluation at
http://www.ezralevant.com/election-act-changes/
You will learn how it came to pass that Sheila Fraser testified against the Act. If you were to hire and pay 60K for a layer, you’d expect her to represent your line of argument, wouldn’t you?
Thanks to all those who posted against our PM – you’ve given me the last push I needed to join the CPC.
@dt804a
So I assume you are intending to join the IRS OVDI program and pay a penalty of 25% of all of your assets as your believed Prime Minister clearly thinks you are a tax cheat and you agree with his assessment.
Enjoy your use of the remaining 75% of the assets you gained over your lifetime.