As some have predicted, the IGA legislation has been buried in the Budget Implementation Act.
Little likelihood for free vote now. One source tells us that final reading of the bill in the House may happen by end of May/June.
Posted by Blaze on Sandbox:
The Cons continue their sneaky games. They have hidden the law to enable FATCA and the IGA in the 375 page omnibus Budget Implementation Act 2014.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/215070578/2014-Budget-Implementation-Bill
The enabling law begins on page 72 (Clause 99). The IGA begins on page 313.
A source tells me it is possible the FATCA legislation could pass by late May or June.
So, now we know what Finance Canada did with all of our submissions. Nothing.
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/breaking-news-cons-hiding-fatca-law-in-budget-act/
March 29 Update on Joe Arvay Legal Opinion:
Just to let everyone know that Lynne Swanson and I contacted Joe Arvay today (Saturday, March 29) for an update.
He tells us that he is on track to provide the legal opinion on the FATCA IGA legal challenge in April — but that there is a possibility that it might take longer because not all can be predicted. Mr. Arvay wants to get this right.
I know all of us want the answer today, but please be patient.
Stephen Kish
@IRSCompliant Forever,
If there’s one thing this whole business has taught me, it’s patience. OK, so patience is a couple notches down the list after outrage and distrust, but still. 🙂
Here’s my missive to PM Harper & the Progressive Conservatives.
I’ve sent a note to Evan Solomon and Rex Murphy at the CBC to ask if they could
do a show on FACTA and the budget and if Rex Murphy could host a Sunday call in show
to let this country know about the IGA and FACTA and the effects it will have on
Canadians and Americans alike. I’ve given them the ISB blog site and asked them
to advise us if they would consider my request. I hope they listen.
@ Ann
Good luck with both of those notes. FATCA and US CBT certainly need a cross country checkup. We know that FATCA is on CBC’s radar and it is very topical what with the Omnibus Bill. Both Rex Murphy and Evan Solomon would do a good job of this.
@ChearsBigEars
While I agree with the idea of putting in ads to provide some awareness, I personally don’t like the ad that’s being discussed here. If I wasn’t really aware already of FATCA, as a Canadian, I would totally ignore it. It looks like an ad to US persons, not to Canadians with US ties. Too may Canadians are still unaware of their USC. Red, white and blue? I would personally like to see an ad directed at CANADIANS. One of the big problems with FATCA is that Canadian citizens are being referred to as US persons residing in Canda.
Create an ad with that in mind and I am behind it along with my wallet.
Canadians…
Just a reminder…
You all already have one of the best TV ads going by Rick Mercer…
I would be reusing it over and over again or find a way to translate the simple message to print.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3fxC1B9KdQ
Wonder if he would do another one to include the OmniBUS rollover Canadians…
@Animal. I would like to make a T-shirt out of your picture. Remember years ago when Free Trade was signed? The Eagle Screwing the Beaver? Those t-shirts were all over the place….
@AnonAnon
“Failure to provide identification number
(6) Every person or partnership who fails to provide on request their Social Insurance Number, their business number or their U.S. federal taxpayer identifying number to a person required under this Act or a regulation to make an information return requiring the number is liable to a penalty of $100 for each such failure,”
The quote above hinges on what is meant by the word “or”. Do you want an apple OR an orange? You have to make a choice. It’s got to be one OR the other.
@Mister Magoo, I agree with you that there’s an ambiguity of the “or” in ordinary English, but this is legal language, and I don’t know how lawyers interpret it.
My point remains that, unless the CRA can report U.S. TINs to the IRS, the data would be essentially useless. So either the CRA or Canadian financial institutions will have to ask people for their U.S. TINs. Will it be based just on “U.S. indicia”, or will there be a more general question addressed to all Canadian taxpayers? And what if people just decline to furnish the requested number and risk the $100 penalty?
And what happens if one chooses not to pay the penalty? Then what? Incarceration? I would push it all the way.
I am saying good bye to my aged parents in two weeks time, which is breaking their hearts.
And, is that penalty per account or per financial institution where your accounts reside? Is it a one-time penalty or yearly or however often it is asked of the person? Will there be pre-qualifier US indicia questions to determine whether you give a (Canadian) SIN or a (US) SSN or your business number?
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This just out on CTV news site: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/omnibus-budget-bill-5-things-you-may-have-missed-1.1752901
@Tangogirl,
I’m sorry to hear that you have to say goodbye to your parents. I’m sure that’s difficult. Is it because you will no longer feel safe visiting the U.S.? Though my parents are gone, I do have a sibling in the U.S. whom I have not felt safe to visit for several years now.
On the matter of reporting one’s U.S. TIN: It won’t be easy to refuse to pay the $100 penalty, because the CRA and/or financial institutions can simply deduct the penalty from one’s accounts. But I do agree with your sentiment about pushing the refusal. I think of refusing to supply the TIN and accepting the penalty as a form of civil disobedience.
Calgary411 is probably right, though, one could be penalized several times by different financial institutions. Still, it may be worth paying a few hundred dollars per year to keep one’s financial information from being reported to the IRS against one’s will. (After all, people outside the U.S. have to pay thousands per year to tax accountants to remain compliant with the U.S. extra-territorial tax laws.)
My suggestion to those who don’t yet have CLNs: Don’t offer your U.S. TIN to anyone other than the IRS (if you are still cooperating with them) or to employers or financial institutions in the U.S. which may have a legitimate right to request it. Write DNA, or NOYB, or “unknown” instead if anyone in Canada asks for it.
In all of this, by the way, I’m not implying that we should accept the IGA and the Harper Government’s enabling legislation as done deals. They still may be defeated or withdrawn if enough public pressure can be mobilized against them. I hope the opposition parties in Parliament will move an amendment to remove the FATCA IGA enabling legislation from the budget bill and that some Conservative back-benchers can be persuaded to support such an amendment.
could it have something to do with row 90?
http://www.fedspending.org/fpds/tables.php?subtype=t&tabtype=t2&year=2012
Thanks AnonAnon for your support. I plan on exercising my right to use civil disobedience and will definitely inform them to mind their own business. As for my family, I still have a brother and our son in the states along with parents in their 80s. I am actually worried that I will not be allowed to cross the border in July, as the questions that I have already been asked in a recent visit reflect an aggressive, provocative tone related to birth and residency.
I believe for civil disobedience to work, it would require every single Canadian to do the same, irrespective of birth origin. My husband who is Canadian plans to do it and I am trying to convince friends that they should as well. My feeling is that too many Canadians are still ignorant, apathetic and not interested given it does not ‘affect’ them on a personal level. I believe it is up to us to lead the way with protests. I don’t accept the argument that one brockster wrote that we are too fragmented across the country to do the million person march. That is precisely how we fought for civil rights and against the Vietnam war, coming from all over the states to exercise our right to fight for what we thought was immoral and wrong. I would suggest, given the opportunity, [helping to board out of province protestors as an example], people would pay to come and march on Parliament Hill. We need a million people to make the point. I am still willing to work alongside any others to make this happen.
New article at Advisor.ca: http://www.advisor.ca/tax/tax-news/feds-bury-fatca-law-in-budget-bill-148502
I just put a post up on this article, WhiteKat. I, at least, need to understand implications. It seems to go over my head. Trusts for anyone with ‘US indicia’ in lands foreign to the US seem forbidden fruit. Like “foreign” trusts of the RDSP, the RESP, the TFSA versions as well?
It’s time to re-wallpaper the MP’s offices once again. Here’s what I sent to mine yesterday, copied to Mr. Harper:
“Having heard from me several times on this issue you know very well my opinion of the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and Canada’s acquiescence to the legislation. This past weekend I learned that the Conservative government has buried the FATCA implementation act within the massive 2014 omnibus budget bill.
“In 1995 a young Stephen Harper was quoted as saying the following regarding omnibus bills: ‘“In the interest of democracy I ask: How can members represent their constituents on these various areas when they are forced to vote in a block on such legislation and on such concerns? We can agree with some of the measures but oppose others. How do we express our views and the views of our constituents when the matters are so diverse?”’ How indeed.
“FATCA itself would not exist if it had not been slipped stealthily into an American omnibus bill. If it had been given adequate study south of the border it would never have made it out of Congress much less been dumped on the rest of the world. Omnibus bills should be outlawed in any democracy because they serve only to obfuscate the issues that should be under detailed scrutiny by a nation’s lawmakers. In short, omnibus bills are a form of “railroading”. The Liberal omnibus bill with which Mr. Harper took issue in 1995 was only 21 pages long and affected 11 existing laws. The 2014 monstrosity is 395 pages long, affects 40 existing laws and introduces one entirely new law, FATCA. What does FATCA have to do with food safety, raising taxes on tobacco products, or making changes to the Trademarks Act? Nothing! Maybe you would vote “yes” for higher cigarette taxes and better food safety but “no” to changes to the Trademarks Act. And these are petty matters compared to the fact that the implementation of FATCA will give the United States partial control of our financial system.
“FATCA strikes at the heart of Canadian democracy. The act to implement it specifically authorizes discrimination on the basis of national origin. How can it possibly be considered OK to lump such life- and nation-altering legislation together with cigarettes?! This is an insult to all Canadians, particularly those who have been studying FATCA seriously for several years and have begged to be heard properly by the Canadian government. It is an insult to the fine legal minds who have formally addressed this issue with the Canadian government on their own time. It is also an insult to every Member of Parliament like yourself who is doing his best to represent the interests of his constituents. Again, to paraphrase Mr. Harper’s own question, ‘“How can you possibly do the right thing in regard to any of the myriad issues which will be thrust upon you when you are faced with voting on this monstrous omnibus?”’
“By hiding the FATCA implementation act in the bowels of the 2014 Omnibus Budget Bill the Conservative government is hoping to sneak this legislation into Canadian law without the general public noticing. The Conservative government is effectively tricking its own MPs into voting for it.
“The ratification of the FATCA implementation act will perpetrate a most grievous injustice on Canadian citizens the ramifications of which will resound in this country for years to come. Therefore, I ask you to urge your government to remove the FATCA implementation act from the budgetary document so that it can be read, analyzed and debated in the House just as any other major legislation would be. FATCA must stand or fall on its own merits or lack thereof. The Conservative government owes it to the citizens of Canada, particularly to those whose constitutional freedoms will be curtailed directly by this legislation should it pass, to take the time to give it due and sober thought followed by a vote specifically allocated to this matter, and to this matter alone.
“Respectfully,”
[name withheld]
@Calgary,
I had thought of making the Advisor article a separate post too, but since we have been told that there are too many posts happening, I decided to tack it on here.
Great letter, @MuzzledNoMore!
@ MuzzledNoMore
Ditto what Wren said.
@ calgary411
Trusts go over my head. All I understand it that these critters are toxic traps thanks to USA and CND tax codes acting like oil and water … and now FATCA diktats have made the situation even worse.
Thanks so much, Wren and Em!
Em, they go over my head too, but I must somehow understand, as the RDSP is a ‘foreign trust’ as other Canadian registered accounts. This goes over some of the compliance rules and penalties for not complying or making mistakes: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/expat_tax/comment-page-63/#comment-1347645
The “pingback” from “check it out” (with advertising link embedded in the name), just above my reply here, is another crappy SEO spam posting. The fact that they’ve gotten their spammy link onto a well-trafficked site like IBS helps their Google ranking. Mods, please remove it. The more these black hat SEO jerks get away with posting these false replies and pingbacks, the more IBS shows up on the links distributed by these scam artists, and before you know it, the spam replies will start to outnumber the real ones. I’ve seen it happen on other legitimate sites.