As some have predicted, the IGA legislation has been buried in the Budget Implementation Act.
Little likelihood for free vote now. One source tells us that final reading of the bill in the House may happen by end of May/June.
Posted by Blaze on Sandbox:
The Cons continue their sneaky games. They have hidden the law to enable FATCA and the IGA in the 375 page omnibus Budget Implementation Act 2014.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/215070578/2014-Budget-Implementation-Bill
The enabling law begins on page 72 (Clause 99). The IGA begins on page 313.
A source tells me it is possible the FATCA legislation could pass by late May or June.
So, now we know what Finance Canada did with all of our submissions. Nothing.
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/breaking-news-cons-hiding-fatca-law-in-budget-act/
March 29 Update on Joe Arvay Legal Opinion:
Just to let everyone know that Lynne Swanson and I contacted Joe Arvay today (Saturday, March 29) for an update.
He tells us that he is on track to provide the legal opinion on the FATCA IGA legal challenge in April — but that there is a possibility that it might take longer because not all can be predicted. Mr. Arvay wants to get this right.
I know all of us want the answer today, but please be patient.
Stephen Kish
Unless the two entities CRA and Citizenship and Immigration Canada talk to each other and having experienced having to deal with both entities (the fact is that they don’t communicate well with each other if at all) it will become a Charter issue if someone tries to hand over information. It can potentially open up the banks and potentially the CRA to a Charter violation lawsuit.
@Char you are furclempt, and we are all shvitzing.
I think part of the problem is that Canadians don’t do outrage very well, just too mild-mannered.
That’s why I suggest some flag-burning, some stuff that really gets media attention. It would shock people to see Canadians doing some serious protesting against Hussein Obama, and many south of the border would sympathize.
@EM
Could we take out an add in a large newspaper re bank boycott? Might that tip our hand and they will re-write the laws to include credit unions? We gotta do something here but what? To take this totally predictable setback laying down is crying “uncle” too easily, freaking Hell where are some folks with power and a microphone?
cindy73, this is one Canadian (born in Canada, raised by two Canadians (one born in Canada; one naturalized from Japan), married to a US indicia that is supremely pissed off by the apparent entitlement of the US Homelander population. “What’s mine is mine, what’s yours is mine.” expressed by those like Tom Hunter.
Let’s just say that I’ve pretty much gone –> http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20131020/330313_Nuclear-explosion.jpg
You can pretty much describe me as a seething ball of hate. I haven’t gotten to the point of hating all Americans (for that would mean that I have turned my back on my beloved wife and hell will freeze over before I do that), but I pretty much hate all American apologists and homelanders with nothing but absolute and unending contempt.
I agree with Cheers Big Ears,a vote for either major polical party will garner the same result.
http://axiomatica.org/economic/monopoly-men/1441-paul-desmarais-web-of-influence-over-canada
Canadians can’t see beyond the Conservatives and the Liberals when they cast their ballot (see Einsteins definition of insanity). There are people in Nova Scotia who are trying something different
http://www.springtidecollective.ca/
Another approach is to tighten the rules for those at the top as suggested by Duff Conacher founder of Democracy Watch
The System is the Scandal
The system is the scandal and no one should be surprised that Canadian governments, politicians, government employees, corporations and big business executives act dishonestly, unethically, secretively, unrepresentatively or wastefully — the system allows them to do so through weak rules, weak enforcement, and weak penalties.
Summary of the 100 Undemocratic and Accountability Loopholes in Canada’s Federal Government
This is not at all to say that all, most or even many politicians, government employees or corporate executives are dishonest, unethical, secretive, non-representative or wasteful — but if any of these people act in these ways they will often not be caught, let alone penalized, because of loopholes in laws and rules and weak enforcement systems.
No matter what issue concerns you, strong good government laws will help ensure that the government addresses your concerns. History has shown that we won’t likely have a good country until we have good governments, we won’t have a clean environment until we have clean governments, and we won’t have a fair and just society until we have fair and just governments.
Incredibly, the laws and enforcement of parking a car illegally are stronger than most government accountability and corporate responsibility laws and enforcement systems in Canada, and in some cases the penalties for parking illegally are higher than for government officials or corporate executives who act dishonestly, unethically, unrepresentatively, secretively or wastefully!
For the past more than 140 years, since Canada became a nation (and section 91 of the Constitution of Canada empowered politicians to “make Laws for the Peace, Order, and good Government of Canada”), politicians and government officials have not been passing strong good government laws, but instead have been playing a game by sometimes strengthening laws, but then weakening enforcement, or strengthening enforcement at the same time as creating loopholes in laws, and in almost every case penalties have remained too weak to discourage violations.
While governments and corporations do bad things for many reasons, often it is because they are operating in bad ways. Especially when governments operate in bad ways, they usually do not require corporations to act in good ways (because they make secret deals behind closed doors with corporate lobbyists).
And unfortunately, the public always pays one way or another when governments or corporations act in bad ways.
See set out on this page Action Alerts about Democracy Watch’s campaigns to increase government accountability and corporate responsibility in Canada — to ensure governments, politicians and their staff and appointees, and government employees, and corporations and corporate executives, all pay a price for acting irresponsibly.
Politicians, government officials, and big business executives are resisting changes to the system that would increase their accountability for wrongdoing. Canadian politicians have control over their own rules, and Canada’s biggest corporations spend $25 billion annually on their lobbying and promotion efforts, so Canadians have to push hard if there is any hope to counter the corporate lobby and win key corporate responsibility changes. They just don’t get it, so we have to give it to them until they do!
We know the ongoing lack of response by governments and big businesses to Canadians’ concerns is discouraging, but if we give up pushing then bad politicians and governments and irresponsible big businesses will do even more to hurt people, communities, the environment and the Canadian economy.
You can help clean up the system to prevent future scandals by simply writing letters to politicians making it clear that you are part of the large majority of Canadians who are concerned and want changes to clean up and democratize Canadian governments. Never assume that no one else is writing a letter, because if everyone assumes that then no one will write a letter. Politicians actually get very scared when only a small percentage of voters write them, because they are very concerned about losing the next election.
Democracy Watch welcomes your support — thank you for doing your part for democracy and corporate responsibility in Canada!
@AnonAnon
Not to be paranoid… well more than I am now… We are 2nd class now with no protection at all… the canadian gov’t & banks can do whatever it wants just to generate a list…. right or wrong… not their problem… they have washed their hands of this issue & can just send it to the US… then it will be up to us to deal with it… Never thought in my lifetime… that a country I was born in would do this crap… thought they were better then the US… what a freaking slap in the face this has been..
Betcha that the PM will get a case of US beer for this hat trick for the US Pres…. u know… they are the best of buds…
I have to agree with Chears Big Ears,a vote for either major party will garner no different result (see Einsteins definition of insanity). As Canadians we can’t see beyond a two party system, it makes no difference they are all payed off by Desmarais in the end.
http://axiomatica.org/economic/monopoly-men/1441-paul-desmarais-web-of-influence-over-canada
Nova Scotians are starting to think outside the box.
http://www.springtidecollective.ca/
@ChearsBigEars,
Sorry for stepping on the design of your ad. I’m grateful and appreciate the effort.
@ Em,
Thanks. Are you an administrator here? Can you send me an email and I’ll send my idea to you?
Deb,
Put your idea into a comment so it can be looked at — and probably put into a post. Thanks.
Chears, I hope that you get some local contributions for the ad that likely did a lot of good where it was posted. Good work!
Another two Americans on Amateur radio were left speechless this morning…. nobody knows in the USA and also in Canada…. If we could raise the funds for a charter challenge this fast, can we set something up for an “information fund” to get the word out? We have all written, some more than once, to our elected officials and that has fallen on deaf ears. They cannot stop public demonstrations and ads in the local media putting this issue on the front page. I am completely convinced that Jim Flaherty resigned over Fatca and only Fatca.
@calgary411,
Well that’s what I’d like to do, but somebody said somewhere that only administrators can post images.
@NativeCanadian,
I totally agree.
In Vancouver, the CRA office is just down the street from the US Consulate. There has got to be something we can do with that.
Do you have a link to an image? I can help with that if you put it into your comment / idea.
I’m inclined to agree with you, NativeCanadian. In my mind, Mr. Flaherty probably knew just how this was going to come down in an omnibus bill and didn’t want any part of it / was powerless to prevent it. Although he had been strong in opposition, his strength petered out. I just wish, if that is the case, that he would have had the moral courage to denounce ‘the plan’.
I see Flaherty’s actions more like someone throwing a stink bomb into a room and quickly closing the door from the outside.
bubblebustin,
How is your cartooning skill? That would be a great one. Perhaps Animal could help.
Cartooning skills not so good, Calgary411.
Ok George. Sorry the email addy you gave me for Blaze doesn’t work
275.00 more is needed so if anyone wants in just go ahead and use the information downthread
@US_Person_Foreigner, you said “the canadian gov’t & banks can do whatever it wants just to generate a list”. True, but unless the list has US TINs attached to the names, the IRS won’t be able to do much with it.
Should we expect our Canadian tax return forms next year to have a question like this?
“Do you have a taxpayer identifying number from the United States? Yes_ No_. If so, provide it here _________”
That would cause a problem for those of us who used to be U.S. taxpayers but no longer are. I had a U.S. TIN, but I no longer “have” it. It’s their number, not mine. There’s no way I would provide it to the CRA, the Canadian Government, or any Canadian financial institution, even if I could remember it.
AnonAnon,
Or would we now have to provide our CLNs to the Canadian Government? So many of us (like my son) don’t have US social security numbers. Others can no longer remember them or have any documentation with the number. (I remember mine as it was used as “employee identification” when I worked for The Boeing Company in Seattle. There is some master file somewhere as I think those SSN’s stay with you until you die — and then probably even after that.)
Guess we shouldn’t pass along any ideas!
@AnonAnon
If u had a # before… they could run that against whatever database they have to match name or b day… whatever… they don’t care as long as they have a name & some sort of address… don’t matter if its true or not. Some stupid but as stated before… they don’t care… they just want $$… right or wrong… But u could be right… that is something CRA would do… u canadian… yes… u a us person… give number under the penalty of the US gov’t since we are them now…
calgary411
Here is an idea to be used by the US gov’t… leave us the heck alone… move on… go after the drug/mob/ or whatever real illegal elements who harm human society then going after my life savings for crap I didn’t know about…
US_Person_Foreigner,
Oh, you mean common sense? compassion? doing something to fix this, which the US absolutely could — but won’t? The lack of proper education for the masses lies in US government / education hands, but they’d never admit that. If citizenship-based taxation is a concept we should have absolutely learned, why weren’t we taught? I’m tired of this sick feeling in my stomach all the time and I’m sure you are too.
Here is Deb’s image and commentary, which I can put in a post, when I’m back — for comments from others. (I am just posting, not coordinating.)
Thanks, Deb!
@calgary411,
Thank you.
@ChearsBigEars,
Just wanted to say again I’m sorry for stepping on your ad. I did not realize you had designed it.
@ all,
Regarding the one calgary411 just posted for me – while I wanted to actually mention Harper and the Conservatives, I agree with Chears that that would probably be hard to get submitted.
So I made the ad as generic as I could while still getting the gist. At least I hope so.
The layout is like the one Chears ran and is intended as a starting point. Input from everyone is welcome and appreciated.