Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

Posted on by Posted in Issues regarding US persons abroad 30 Comments

From an email that I sent to some politicians who attended last evening’s (March 12) Liberal MP Ralph Goodale Calgary reception:

“disgusted”, one of my ‘US Person’ friends, spoke with you this evening at the Ralph Goodale reception and sent me your email contact information. I hope it is OK if I take the liberty to pass on to you an email that I sent to Honourable Ralph Goodale (below). Note that in that email I ask Mr. Goodale what his vote will be on the IGA implementation. He, this evening, said that MPs will not get to vote on the IGA but it will go to the Executive Committee. How is this possible in a “democracy”? If one of you could elaborate on that process, I’d be very grateful.

I also found a 2011 piece from Mr. Goodale, “Fighting The “Long Arm” Of The U.S. Tax-Man”: http://www.ralphgoodale.ca/blog/fighting-the-long-arm-of-the-u-s-tax-man/.

I believe Mr. Goodale could and should educate Justin Trudeau on the realities of FATCA for Canada and its ‘US Person’ CANADIAN citizens and residents. Mr. Trudeau’s answers to my questions re FATCA at the recent Okotoks meet and greet were not encouraging. There will be an approximate one million Canadians (or as we are now being referred to by the Government of Canada and Canadian Bankers Association, ‘US citizens resident in Canada’ and ‘US taxpayers resident in Canada – how insulting – we are CANADIANS!) and their families and business partners and friends for whom there will be one issue come voting time: extra-territorial FATCA law in Canada.

etc.

Thanks very much for your interest. I encourage you to pass this information on to anyone who might have an interest. This WILL affect and be a cost to every Canadian.

Regards,
Carol Tapanila

From: caroltapanila
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:39 AM
To: ralph.goodale@parl.gc.ca
Subject: Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act Law in Canada

Honourable Member of Parliament Goodale,

I will be attending your Liberal reception tomorrow, Wednesday, March 12th, in Calgary. FATCA and the signing of the IGA with the US will have a bearing on any federal Canadian budget. I would appreciate your views and what your vote as a Canadian MP will be for the intergovernmental agreement.

etc.

NOTE: Mr. Goodale supports our fight for this and still feels as he did in his 2011 statement (in link above)
*********
Sent this morning to MP Irwin Cotler in an attempt to get clarification on whether or not MPs will be able to vote on the IGA (not yet answered, of course):

Dear Mr. Cotler,

Yesterday one of us was advised by an MP that there will be no vote in Parliament on the pending FATCA IGA legislation, but that the “decision” will be made by “executive committee.”

Questions: Is this statement correct? Can the IGA bill come into law without approval of Parliament? If this is the case, is Senate approval also not required?

We would appreciate an answer, if at all possible, by the end of the week.

Thank you for your help.

“IRSCompliantForever”

************
Subsequently, NativeCanadian’s report on this morning’s attempt for clarification:

Just got off the phone with Flaherty’s office. I was told this draft proposal for Fatca has passed consultations. This is the process where our letters recently sent for feedback will be considered and the IGA may be “tweaked”. Once the tweaking is done, the IGA will be tabled and be voted on by our MP’s. The “tweaked” IGA will be made public. …

UPDATE:
We HAD information on a vote by MPs on a “tweaked” IGA.

But, as we are now getting further conflicting information from different sources, we still don’t know and are back to –

Yet to determine:

A Free Vote

OR

A Party Vote

OR

No Vote at All

by all Canadian MPs

on the FATCA intergovernmental agreement (IGA) as negotiated with the US?

What might be the case is that the IGA does not need Parliament so the actual MP vote on the IGA won’t matter that much,

BUT

the ACT TO IMPLEMENT THE IGA will matter, and that is what we SHOULD care about.

30 thoughts on “Free Vote, Party Vote or No Vote at All for Canadian MPs on the U.S. FATCA IGA? or What is it that really matters?”

  1. @ WhiteKat
    That’s true but obviously we have to keep repeating and repeating until they get it. Maybe my next round of e-mails will be in all bold, ALL CAPS and 24 point text. (No, scrap the caps — way too annoying.) Maybe if we all sent e-mails on a specific date using Brock red text. I’m very upset that the only people invited to the Fin. Can. table were bank CEOs and the CBA. We’re left to phone calls to office staff, e-mails, a few words at meet-ups with MPs, letters and one Christmas card to Flaherty from me.

  2. @Charl,

    Yes, one person at a time. It is amazing though, that she did not know about FATCA. No wonder, we are still struggling with this fight when even people such as this Wealth Management Advisor, have not yet heard of FATCA. This WILL change eventually though, just as most Canadians cursed with the US affliction have no idea of their ailment yet, and most won’t until they start getting questioned during account openings or reviews at their banks. This is what our current government is banking on (pun intended) – that they can push through the IGA legislation BEFORE critical mass awareness of FATCA.

  3. I’m wondering if we should start sending an overview of what FATCA means to the banks…crazy huh. Put out the stats of how much money will potentially be leaving the Canadian economy if we are all forced to become FBAR compliant, how their RRSPs for US identified are PFICs and can not be invested in THEIR OWN BANK STOCKS…which they like to push!! There is some kind of meeting/dinner party next week, $100 a plate thingy, with Flaherty that she is going to. Would be great if the banking folk were armed with some doozie questions for him. (I also have my RIFF with Dominion Securities, my advisor is in Toronto. Should I send info to him also? Might this be exposing me to my own bank?) This has rather blown my mind, if the underling folks advising clients at the bank don’t know we are in BIG trouble.

  4. Anne Frank, excellent list of points – here is the letter that I emailed to the Finance Dept:

    To: IGA-AIG@fin.gc.ca
    Cc: stephen.harper@parl.gc.ca, ted.hsu@parl.gc.ca, elizabeth.may@parl.gc.ca, murray.rankin@parl.gc.ca, thomas.mulcair@parl.gc.ca, justin.trudeau@parl.gc.ca

    Tax Policy Branch March 10, 2014
    Department of Finance
    Canada

    Dear Sir/Madam:

    I wish to voice my strongest objection to the proposed information exchange between Canada and the USA for tax purposes. This agreement allows Canada’s sovereignty to be surrendered to the United States by allowing the US to enforce (through the foreign American law “FATCA”) their system of citizenship-based taxation. The United States believes that it has the right to tax “US Persons” around the world. There are thousands of innocent hard-working Canadian citizens of (often distant) US origin who live in Canada, earn income in Canada, pay taxes in Canada and have no economic connection to the US. It is immoral and unjust that these people should be pursued by the United States IRS for taxes and penalties. It essentially amounts to extortion.

    It is outrageous that the United States, which prides itself as being the home of “freedom, truth and justice”, would try to exert control over people around the world in this way. No other country, save for Eritrea, acts in such a manner and no other country would be allowed to act this way were it not for the economic clout that the US wields. It is very disappointing that Canada would plan to comply with this American aggression, breaking its own privacy laws in the process (having the CRA be an intermediary in the transfer of confidential account information still amounts to a loss of privacy). It is also a violation of Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms, whereby Canadian citizens of US origin are going to be discriminated against on the basis of national origin.

    It is sad that the current Conservative government is planning to betray many loyal Canadians. Compliance with FATCA will result in a weakening of Canada, as Canadian capital will be extracted from Canada and deposited in the US Treasury. The United States’ threat of a 30% withholding penalty on US source income should be tested on the basis of principle in upholding Canadian sovereignty.

    I urge Canada to reconsider this planned complicity with the US and either reject the agreement or ensure that it is amended to only apply to residents of the United States with Canadian financial accounts. It is hypocritical for Canada and the United States to claim that this is a reciprocal agreement, as Canada does not practise citizenship-based taxation and the United States is not agreeing to provide financial account information on US residents.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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