Hard-hitting alternatives for this Conservative Government and all MPs on how they can stop, better analyze the consequences and not recklessly change what Canadians hold as values if the signed Intergovernmental Agreement with the US for FATCA is implemented. At the very least, let’s have some open discussion with ALL of Canada …
Richardson / Kish Finance Canada Submission, March 10, 2014
John Richardson and Stephen Kish give very specific reasoning the Department of Finance has not likely seen before in:
. Why there should be NO Canadian participation in FATCA;
and
. Specific recommendations in the event that Canada does participate in FATCA.
The Government of Canada should not assist the United States in general, and in any manner with the facilitation and/or implementation of FATCA on Canadian soil.
March 10, 2014
Tax Policy Branch
Canada Department of Finance
Enclosed please find PDF and and Word attachment versions of a proposal by John Richardson and Stephen Kish to Canada Finance entitled “Request for changes in legislative proposal to establish IGA between U.S. and Canada for the enhanced exchange of tax information.”
Mr. Richardson and I hope that you will find the comments to be useful.
Regards,
John Richardson
Barrister and Solicitor,
Toronto
Stephen Kish, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychiatry
University of Toronto
Toronto
We welcome your comments on this submission. We worked hard on it.
Let’s have another fund raising even to publish the entire submission in the Toronto Star or?… Globe and Mail? might cost multiple thousands of dollars but would be well worth it. Must be some well heeled folks out there lurking? This is an appeal to get active
Excellent piece of work.
RE the US exit tax (p. 55)
The argument might be weakened due to the fact that Canada also has an exit tax, called a departure tax. Basically, it is a tax on capital gains, where the emigrant is deemed to have disposed of property at the time of emigration. It is not so draconian as the US law. If you argue that the exit tax is in principle unfair, you may be expected to say where you stand on the Canadian law.
Thank you!
Punchy. I like it. Recognizes that the IGA’s legalization of discrimination against US persons in Canada will culminate in the need for Canada to protect itself from the problem they created.
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It is interesting to see on page 28 how it is a “foreign” country’s law that claims people are still US persons. What other laws from other foreign countries will our government implement in Canada? As stated before, this opens the door to allow ANY country to place it’s laws in Canada. That alone should be a giant red flag. The work John Richardson and Dr. Kish have put in to this will not go unnoticed here in Canada. This should be a piece of work used in the destruction of ANY country’s laws forced on Canada. FOr gods sake, it’s time to protect OUR country!
Thank you so much for taking the time to put forth our arguments in a logical, professional, understandable format. (Unlike my own rants of rage). I especially enjoyed your solutions to the problems and agree with you 200%. Is there any hope of an op-ed in the New York Times, Washington Post? (Yes, I’m dreaming). I’m going for the US “lefties” bleeding heart liberals to understand we are the little guys being hurt AGAIN. I’ve written to several MSNBC anchors and Krauthammer (not a liberal but really smart) but my writings are amateurish. Might some of you more well spoken than I be interested in giving that approach another shot now that things seem to be heating up a bit in the rags? I don’t know, I’m despirate here……now having dreams of nuclear warheads launched by my return button! (Time for me to see Kish).
This is another outstanding submission. I am sure there is lots of ammunition for Mr. Arvay here and I hope these distinguished authors will be working with him either directly or indirectly. The Harper government is on incredibly thin ice here, morally, ethically and legally. Thanks a lot to both Richardson and Kish. They have done a great service to Canadians here.
The efforts herein submitted by John Richardson and Stephen Kish are outstanding and outlines and details just what we are faced with in dealing with this monstrosity. Many thanks are due to these two men who have gone out of their way to detail in language and form explicit cause and effect of this outrageous intent. Along with Canada’s intention to allow it to destroy the lives of millions in this country. I read the whole submission to Finance Canada and I cried in gratitude at the monumental effort it demonstrated on behalf of so many who need help and relief from soul crushing fear, anger and despair.
At the same time the people in the US are being subjected to their own terrorizing at the hands of the IRS and this latest information sends it WAY over the top.
http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politics/2014/03/convicted-al-qaeda-spy-works-for-irs-2464442.html
In addition it is useful to note that it appears clear that the ‘negotiation’ with the ‘US Government’ our Canadian government engaged in is not recognized as legal in the U.S.
Senator Rand Paul has made it clear on two very important points:
That the Treasury/IRS is not authorized at all legally to engage in signing IGA’s with sovereign governments anywhere.
(This begs the question as to why OUR government would entertain such a thing at the outset.)
AND
that along with NSA spying on cellphone use everywhere, so FATCA violates ‘warrantless’ searches of any kind for any reason.
One is supposed to have ‘probable cause’ they can take to a judge to get a warrant.
That is a 4th amendment violation ( among many others) and it might be useful for all those who oppose FATCA to join the class action law suit for it follows as day into night a violation of the 4th amendment blows FATCA out of the water.
This is in addition to the privacy rights breached by the IRS intrusion as well as the fact that FATCA is so bad it is impossible to implement WITHOUT a sovereign government’s capitulation.
The fact that the IRS is not authorized to do any of this negotiating legally (according to the US itself) is bad enough, but now we know those in the IRS pushing these draconian measures on law abiding citizens are themselves not only terrorists but convicted terrorists.
This is the kind of organization our government is willing to allow into Canada to terrorize and harass law abiding citizens and residents while confiscating the wealth of Canada and transferring it to the United States.
It is little wonder the movement to abolish the IRS is gaining strength and ground in the U.S. As for Canada:
Sir Isaac Brock is turning in his grave. Our veterans who died for our freedom are also calling out from their graves for a strong stance against this country crushing attempt. Where are our leaders who need to stand for us strongly? Where are OUR heroes of the day to stand in the breach?
These truly are the times that try men’s souls.
It is the responsibility of the Conservative government to protect and defend the citizens and residents of this country. If not now, WHEN?
Well done BUT I think it’s also time for some asymmetrical warfare here. Frontal assaults like writing and suing the government when we are dealing with an overwhelmingly powerful enemy have only so much usefulness. We need to go after the weak points:
1) We should also go after the real power here–the Canadian banks who forced the government to capitulate. Tell the truth that Nova Scotia paid 100 million on FATCA compliance but not a loonie on trying to overturn the law. Maybe boycott banks like Nova Scotia and place ads, etc
2) Go after the FATCA industrial complex like the law and accounting firms. Firms like Deloitte and KPMG are reaping tens of millions by selling FATCA compliance. They will say they are just helping clients comply, but just like groups go after multinational companies for doing business in Angola diamond country, etc, the big four and the big law firms should be shown no quarter. Sure, I personally don’t do business with Deloitte but my local city council or municipality does, or the company I am a shareholder in does. Just like South Africa before, we organize boycotts of these firms and force your local mutual fund to divest all investments that do business with firms that provide “FATCA compliance” services.
Government is largely immune to reputational risk (it is criticized a thousand times a minute) but Banks are not so immune, they are very sensitive to criticism. Law Firms and accounting firms are not so immune.
After compulsory reading, a comprehension exam should be given to each Canadian MP before he/she can vote on implementation of the IGA “negotiated” with the US. Each must each realize the fate they sign for their fellow Canadians and in doing so their weakening of the very fabric of this country in which they and their families as well as we and our families live.
Then — they MUST vote with their sense of morality and justice, not in line with HOW their Party tells them they will vote.
Perhaps they could put themselves in the shoes of the so-called ‘US Person’ — who is really, too, a Canadian in Canada.
Will they sign the same fate for any other person because of their ‘national origin’?
@ calgary411
Compulsory reading — YES! Last night I was thinking that we need to contact each MP’s mom and ask her to sit her son or daughter down at the kitchen table to read every last one of our submissions. No dinner until they have done their reading and aced a pop quiz. That would properly prepare them for that vote I think. 😉
@Calgary… You are so right!!!! That is one of the best ideas I’ve heard of yet. How can ANY MP vote without knowing Fatcas full effects. I just left 22 pages with my local MP Joe Preston this morning. Part of the pages were from the Richardson/Kish submission. I also sent the links to the proposal and asked that Joe read this before even considering to vote on teh IGA. This is imperative. But Calgary brought up a good idea. How about a test? Just to make sure the dog didn’t eat their homework on this. I like it!
There has been such a mis match. The U.S. looked at the expats who were not filing and from day one came down like a ton of bricks. Instead of finding out what the problem was…they assumed. Every single person I’ve talked to had no idea of their obligation to file paperwork and would have been happy to do as they needed to if they had known. Especially about FBARS. Instead of trying to contact people and say “We’re interested in becoming more strict on this issue and therefore there’s a deadline. You have two years to get into full compliance.” End of story should they not be open to RBT.
Instead there were fear mongering articles and when people looked for a way to do the right thing or complained more fear mongering. This has been a disgraceful way to deal with the situation and that too needs to be pointed out to our MP’s. They didn’t even TRY to let people know their obligations in any way shape or form before coming out with big guns against little fish and big alike.
The U.S. has not acted in good faith with their expats and continue to be punitive now saying they are going to investigate renunciants and that is a veiled threat if we can go by past press releases, framing of this issue and big stick beatings. At no time did they try to co operate, respond to Nina Olsen or realize they were dealing with innocent low or no tax populations. MP’s ought to be concerned about these so called “investigations” given past behaviour and what that might mean for residents and citizens of Canada perhaps some losing their business or not being able to cross the border to conduct business in the future. Will the rules to cross change because of this? Where is the reassurance that the U.S. will act in good faith and with reasonableness in the future even with regard to the IGA??
Wow! The Richardson/Kish duo have done it again! This should be required reading for Mr. Arvay.
WhiteKat,
It certainly is another excellent Richardson/Kish submission — and should be an easy to comprehend eye-opener for all those MP’s who say the IGA signed was a good deal – their constituents have nothing to worry about — or as John Weston felt — he was “thrilled” with the signing. How they could continue along those lines after reading that submission and the Christians/Cockfield submission is beyond me.
@Calgary411, It’s a head shaker! I will send a link to my MP Pierre Poilievre who I am sure is very tired of hearing from me. If this doesn’t make him ‘get it’, nothing will.
What if we try to organize a “question period” and try to have it televised by the CBC? We can invite ALL MP’s that will vote on the FATCA IGA and show publicly how much they really know.
@NativeCanadian
That sounds like a plan to me. There has to be some mechanisms, along with the posters and the fabulous meetings IBS is holding to get the message out there. I see three avenues to explore; people who know nothing about the law and how it affects them, exposing the MP’s to the realities of what they are legislating and outing the banks for violating their social contract with the citizens of Canada. Seems we need some “boots on the ground” plan here. How could we arrange a Q&A with the MP’s? the banks? CTV financial segment?
@Native Canadian
Sounds like a good idea – in theory. Just trying to get even one of these slithery creatures to agree to broadcast just how ill informed they are will be a feat in itself. Expect to be stonewalled, unless you can think of something that would compel them to participate.
What about an open challenge in the Star? Maybe Elizabeth May would cooperate and challenge someone to debate. Who did Jatras know to get published in the Star? Can he be contacted for some ideas to make this some kind of public forum/debate challenge the MPs/Harper? Kathleen Wynne and how this is hurting Ontarians? I’d pay big money to see John Richardson challenge in an open debate…Harper/Flaherty/President of the Royal….you name it. I don’t know, just brain storming here and I’m loosing brain cells at an alarming rate.
Being this is the ONLY issue questioning the strength of Canada’s sovereignty EVER might make some take note. I’ll work on some ideas tonight. We can make this work!
John Kerry: Call your office!
Ukraine ‘sovereignty’ is not the only country that ‘requires’ defending.
While Kerry proclaims this morning that all countries ‘sovereignty’ requires defending the US IRS is going about invading every country on the planet and destroying their ‘sovereignty’ in the process!
I noted that the Richardson-Kish submission went in on March 10th — the deadline. My husband’s submission went in that day too and he didn’t even get an auto reply. (I got one from my mid Feb submission.) I hope John and Stephen at least got an auto reply to acknowledge the receipt of their extraordinary submission. It deserved even more than an auto reply but I fear Fin. Can. really doesn’t want to have anything to do with us anymore. I pointed out to Fin. Can. that we would not have even known they were “inviting” submissions if it hadn’t been for Allison Christians’ sharp eyes and her quick posting on her tax blog site.
@Em,
You made me wonder too so I emailed Canada Finance this afternoon and soon received confirmation that our submission was received.
Today an IRS non-compliant woman in her eighties contacted me. She noticed one of our letters in the newspaper and wondered if she could help us fight the Harper government. She left the U.S. more than a half century ago and had an appointment to meet with a tax professional. I provided her with the strongest possible “suggestions” which will be followed-up.
She is why John and I keep sending in these submissions over and over again.