If you look on Tax Analysts there is currently a pay walled article with this title under the Today’s News/International Tab. It is no joke.
If this is what I think it is it means WAR.
See also Jack Townsend, IRS CI Is Looking at Renunciations of Citizenship Just in Case (3/1/13)
Maybe one of the Brockers can ask Jaime for a guest post on IBS?
You might be able to reach her via info@samarora.com or (240) 245-0018
@Atticus, I believe that it’s because US citizenship is viewed as sacred and to choose to give up the ‘greatest citizenship in the world’ is deemed by many in Congress (such as Carl Levin) an unforgivable act of Apostasy. Citizenship is viewed as allegiance and, thus, fealty.
@IRSCompliant At the London Ontario information session (and perhaps the other ones), John Richardson said he thinks “forcible destruction” of US citizenship will become THE issue relating to all of this.
@Blaze,
Thanks. Then I will speak to the DOS on this and try to obtain an answer.
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=Mi9hjILDhgg
IRSCF,
It may be related to the DOS advice I got regarding my “entrapped-into-US-citizenship” son:
I hired a Washington, DC nationality / immigration lawyer to confirm my son’s US status and give possibilities for his renunciation. Result was that my children were US citizens from the moment of their births. And, straight from the US Department of State:
atticus,
Modern usage
In its modern usage, hubris denotes overconfident pride and arrogance. Hubris is often associated with a lack of humility, though not always with the lack of knowledge. Those accused of hubris often come from higher social backgrounds, such as politicians or wealthy celebrities, than the accuser, who accuses them of having marginal experience with the realities of the topics they attempt to address. An accusation of hubris often implies that suffering or punishment will follow, similar to the occasional pairing of hubris and nemesis in Greek society. The proverb “pride goeth (goes) before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall” (from the biblical Book of Proverbs, 16:18) is thought to sum up the modern use of hubris. It is also referred to as “pride that blinds”, as it often causes one accused of hubris to act in foolish ways that belie common sense. In other words, the modern definition may be thought of as, “that pride that goes just before the fall”.
I wish many of you could hear one of my favourite songs from one of my favourite singer/songwriters.
Says, sings, and plays it like I feel it (on PRIDE any many other of his songs).
You can:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi9hjILDhgg
Might work this time.
Perhaps not, but YOU said it:
pukekonz,
Until that day, we’ll try to continue to use what we have left of our freedom of speech, to fight this monster.
Good night, SwissPinoy, do you have enough to deal with, now that? Keep up the good fight — and glad to see you back here / some of us noticed your absence.
Yes, I still want to sign.
The Congress may as well revitalize the House UnAmericans Activity Committee. So now they want to investigate something that they officially deny exist. Which is tax reporting burdens and FATCA regulations that lead to renunciation.
Thanks very much, Don. I’ve just sent it on to my daughter to pass on to other “younger” persons who want to become US citizens to take advantage of the “US opportunity,” saying they should look at all aspects — the good, the bad and the ugly. Along with http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/01/what-fatca-really-means-for-mr-mrs-or-ms-middle-class-countryman-whatever-their-country/, they should have much they need to know of the “responsibilities” from outside the bounds of the USA.
EXPATS Jump to Freedom and Cross the Berlin Wall to Escape
:
Things to think about on what we allow:
“Moving on after being bullied
Bullying can be a traumatic event for anyone. Even when the bullying stops, you may be left with feelings of fear, helplessness, anger, or anxiety. Your first instinct may be to withdraw from others. However, isolation will only make things worse. Connecting to others who don’t participate in bullying will help you heal. Make an effort to maintain your positive relationships and avoid spending too much time alone.
Something’s not processing correctly in a bully’s head. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that what they’re doing is crossing a line that shouldn’t be crossed. And it’s really, in my mind, no different than taking on defenseless kids. You do it just because you can.”
“It’s an exercise in power; but it’s also meant to disintegrate someone’s Self. It’s meant to take away their sense of who they are. And why? Because they’re not as strong, or as bit, or as witty. Bullies are ball-less, soul-less creatures to me. And they’re not just children, they’re adults too. It’s a terrorist act. It’s meant to make you feel afraid. It’s meant to make you feel powerless to take care of the situation you find yourself in.”
“America is a bully, or so it appears to those who live beyond our shores. Nobody likes a bully, whether he operates in the schoolyard or in the international arena. Those who support a bully do so out of fear. Hence, bullies never have any real friends. They have followers who are intimidated by the arrogance and power of the tormenter. There are many nations, which appear to be friendly to America, yet they wait patiently with hope in their hearts that one-day the bully will meet his match. Meanwhile, they pay homage to the bully in order that they may avoid his wrath.”
And, of course:
No sense in worrying before the fact.
But this highlights the reason that people should be aware that they can relinquish upon taking another citizenship and avoid the renouncing thing completely. You are within constitutional rights to shed one citizenship and replace it with another and you don’t have to do anything other than inform them just before and after the fact – to collect the CLN. I won’t comment on the tax issue because that varies a lot and in the case of younger folks still in the workforce is likely a non-issue in terms of being considered “covered” or for those who are just reaching 18.
Still, unless they change their constitution to forbid giving up citizenship, there is little they can do beyond scaring people to stop the trend.
If US persons are bona fide residents abroad they are exempt from the Obamacare tax so why do those of us resident abroad have to pay tax at all to the US? See? They could exclude US citizens living abroad if they want to.
Affordable Healthcare Act does not apply abroad
In June 2012 the Supreme Court gave its approval to the Affordable Healthcare Act and many Americans living outside the USA are wondering if the law applies to them. The Supreme Court decision did not change anything in the law and Americans who are bona-fide residents overseas are presumed to have minimum essential coverage and as such do not have to pay a tax for not being insured in the US.
When the law was being discussed in Congress in 2010, ACA and other action groups were able to put pressure on Congress not to include Americans abroad, especially concerning the “Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage.” Overseas Americans are not exempted; technically speaking they are presumed to have acceptable minimal coverage.
More information is available on the US Government Healthcare website.
Last Updated September 24, 2012
if you really want to see the article behind the paywall, i think you can get a free trial to Lexis and access tax analysts thru lexis. but you gots to speak to lexis rep first and pretend you are interested, etc and they will give you a trial login id. gotta do that on a business day when they’re around.
i used to be in the bidniss so i know
or anyone with access to an academic library probably has lexis access
@ Hi yomama
I am doing a research project on the politics of U.S. taxation policy towards overseas Americans, so will try to look at it after dinner.
@ Cheersbigears
Good point re: Obamacare. Glad to see ACA did this. Much more inclined to join. Taxation policy is about politics, not fairness.
@atticusincanada
Major alterations to llegislation take incredibly long in the U.S. It is possible, but requires sustained effort.
@nobledreamer
Good point about pushback. I think part of problem is that people on the taxation committee spend so much time focussing on very wealthy willful tax cheats that they don’t see the problems of the middle class. I have been reading lots of literature on tax havens and it makes very clear that these serve an extremely wealth, non-resident elite. The tax preparers certainly see the problem: my U.S. tax preparing company actually sent out a pro-FATCA repeal message, which is like a turkey voting for Christmas in the U.K. (Thanksgiving in U.S.)..
@irscompliantforever
The duress question is an interesting one. Many countries don’t recognize it when their nationals renounce their citizenship to take up U.S. citizenship citing duress (largely because they don’t want to close the door on top quality people). Switzerland (like many other developed countries) lets in only highly-skilled immigrants and is not a tax haven for non-wealthy residents, so how much of a brain drain is the U.S. creating for itself through its policies? Meanwhile Switzerland gets lots of highly skilled new citizens. Doh!
@ Cheers Big Ears
I just read the exerpt from “They Thought They Were Free”
I’ve passed the link on to some friends. We often discuss these same issues. Government increasingly operates in secret. Canadian citizens suffer losses in small increments, ie. Canada Post. We as a society don’t make the connections because our attentions are drawn to The Super Bowl, Dancing With The Stars, The Academy Awards……..
It is vital that Canadian citizens become politically engaged, if not we lose everything. It has happened and will continue. I never expected the Canadian government would betray me in the way that it has. The crime that I am guilty of is drawing my first breath on American soil.
I don’t know the answer, I have no political inclination by nature. I continue to be drawn to, and promote Democracy Watch as a means to fight back.
Here is a brief exerpt from one their many articles:
“The federal Conservatives have lied again and again about establishing an independent public appointments commission to help end patronage, and have proven themselves to be just as bad as past political parties at rewarding friends and cronies with appointments, and at appointing lapdogs, to key good government and law enforcement agencies,” said Tyler Sommers, Coordinator of Democracy Watch. “By continuing to practise undemocratic, unethical politics as usual, the Conservatives continue to damage Canada’s democracy in dangerous ways.”
http://democracywatch.ca/
Thanks Tim for posting this. I saw it yesterday on the Townsend site, but was worried that without access to the actual content – or even the abstract, that the title alone would result in scaring people who have renounced, are about to, or are considering it.
Thanks @yomama for the tips about Lexis Nexis.
Just an FYI:
For anyone who is interested, and who might be positioned to be able to obtain it without personal cost – fulltext access is available through many academic (usually university) libraries – or, sometimes made available under certain conditions for those in the community who can obtain onsite access via a day guest pass to one of those libraries and their electronic databases (varies with the specific organization’s library access rules, and the terms of their agreement with Lexis Nexis). Otherwise it is usually restricted to those currently enrolled as a university student, faculty or staffperson at the specific university. Some universities do not allow any guest access at all to their electronic databases (containing electronic versions of academic journals, articles, books, other materials) at all, or only to some of them – because of the restrictions in the publisher’s licensing agreements, and because of the very expensive costs).
Unfortunately, many/most of the specialized US/International tax and law journals that we would be interested in – which contain US tax articles like this one – and those in Tax Notes and Tax Notes International are accessible only electronically and frequently only via Lexis Nexis or an equivalent database. Occasionally the authors allow for open access online, or post a copy on their faculty/professional webpage or sometimes just the abstract alone might be found on the open internet (see for ex. a Google Scholar search http://scholar.google.ca/ ). Sometimes you can obtain/purchase a single copy of articles via an Interlibrary loan request made via a university library if you are an alumni of that institutions (but rules and costs vary) or directly from the publisher (and sometimes the author/s) but often the cost might be 20-25. per article.
thanks @badger and @publius for expanding the point.
of course, the most obvious thing is just to ask any lawyer or accountant friend for the lexis article. unless they’re at a real bucket shop, they will have lexis access.
@ badger
Aaron Swartz fought against these barriers to what should be openly accessible reports and publications. He was threatened by a very vindictive indictment which drove him to suicide.
globalresearch.ca/internet-freedom-aaron-swartzs-suspicious-death/5319000