…
The federal government must refuse to sign the Inter-Governmental Agreement to implement FATCA and instead advise their US counterparts that these policies are an unacceptable intrusion into Canadian sovereignty, and work to develop an arrangement that would mitigate the effects of current US tax laws that unjustly target honest Canadian citizens. These measures should be examined by the appropriate House of Commons committees, in consultation with the Privacy Commissioner of Canada.We must not permit Canadian financial institutions to comply with FATCA in violation of our own privacy laws, and if the US attempts to enforce FATCA against them, we must vigorously respond and seek legal remedy as is our right.
If the US feels the existing Canada-United States Convention with Respect to Taxes is not working, they should provide specific details and suggestions on how to improve it through legislative amendment without sacrificing the rights of Canadians to foreign interests.
@Kermitzii
Just as I told you….
Well, they say FATCA is a go then that is the day my money goes out too of my banks.
And presenting a free seminar, http://www.moodysgartner.com/calgary-seminar-considering-renouncing-your-us-citizenship-now-may-be-the-time-to-get-out/
Calgary seminar: Considering renouncing your US citizenship? Now may be the time to get out…
Published on January 29, 2014 at 15:03, by Moodys Gartner Tax Law LLP
Complimentary Seminar
Presented by: Roy A Berg JD, LLM (US TAX) and Alexander Marino JD, LLM (US TAX)
Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014
Time: 4:00 – 6:00 PM
Location: 715 – 5 Avenue SW, Calgary (Ground Floor Conference Centre)
Registration: rsvp@moodysgartner.com or 403.693.5145
In July 2014, the US’s Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) will go into effect, and at that time it will become increasingly difficult to renounce US citizenship for the “right reasons” and thereby avoid potentially ruinous consequences. All evidence suggests that now may be the time to consider renouncing US citizenship.
However, renouncing US citizenship comes with many complexities. As a result, it is essential to ensure that renunciation is done properly. If not done correctly, an individual may be subject to the US Exit Tax or barred from ever entering the US again under current law.
On February 19, 2014, Moodys Gartner Tax Law will be presenting a complimentary seminar on the main topics of interest in consideration of renouncing US citizenship:
Pros and cons of renouncing US citizenship
Avoiding the US Exit Tax
How to avoid becoming barred from the US
Consequences to renouncing US citizenship if proposed law ultimately passes
Please register by Friday, February 14. Subject to capacity.
“Right reasons”? What are they predicting is going to happen under FATCA that will make our reasons today wrong tomorrow?
@Calgary411
are you going to the seminar?
bubblebustin, “right reasons” would mean not mentioning FATCA or taxes or money or anything other than “I am a Canadian now.” Probably even saying that dual citizenship is too difficult to manage would be a mistake b/c it begs the question – why? But wouldn’t attending a seminar on “how to renounce without tax consequences” call your renouncing into question? Being here on this forum might work against us too.
We are damned if we do or don’t.
The more people renounce, the more it decreases your chance of being able to renounce before the banks start asking questions, unfortunately.
They can’t deny us the right to relinquish or renounce but they can slow us up with all manner of tactics.
Whose husband had the citizenship judge witness a statement of intent to relinquish? I wonder if it were notarized if a bank would have to accept that? Wouldn’t help anyone whose obtained citizenship yet but might be of use for those who will go the relinquishing route. The USG can’t easily change their constitution where “taking citizenship with intent to relinquish” is considered a valid way to un-USC yourself.
@ YogaGirl
That was my husband. The Calgary consulate accepted it as a reason for him to relinquish rather than renounce. They have also offered to provide him with some proof of his appointment in case he needs to travel to the USA before his CLN arrives. Perhaps his “intent statement” and his “appointment proof” would be good enough for a bank if that CLN takes forever to get here.
No, I am not planning to go to the Moodys seminar in Calgary.
I hope the Calgary Consulate continues to be as reasonable and communicative as it has proven to be so far. (…though my son cannot be un-entrapped there.)
@ calgary411
I’m trapped too. There is no renunciation procedure for me. I can’t return a card I no longer have. If I did have that thing in my hands I would give it a spit, click my heels 3 times and say “Begone!” … but this time leave me some proof.
@All
anyone know how many renunciations in 2013? I read somewhere today there were over 1300 the first half of 2013
@northernstar
The Federal Register’s are due to be released tomorrow, but they are usually late. Here’s a really good graph of renunciations since 2006, up to and including Q2 2013.
http://intltax.typepad.com/intltax_blog/number-of-expatriates/
here’s one that includes Q3:
http://www.examiner.com/article/expatriations-for-first-three-quarters-of-2013-ties-five-whole-years-under-bush
Calgary411, I know you want clear cut ties for your son, but do you really think anyone is going to query too much about an account of someone who was born in Canada? Someone of the JT thread mentioned that it was doubtful that the banks are going to do much beyond the obvious in terms of searching for people.
Personally, I am waiting eagerly for the first Canadian born to take to the court system to affirm his primary nationality. The Canadian court has already ruled (in an immigration/citizenship case) that Canadian nationality is something that results from living here that one can’t be Canadian through osmosis so it stands to reason that the opposite is true also. One can’t be American genetically, it’s an on the ground, in-country indoctrination that takes years. It’s just my opinion but I don’t think the Americans can force citizenship down the throats of people born in other countries. Emigrants are another matter but being born and raised somewhere counts and one of these days, someone is going to put that to the test.
Em, good to know.
Maybe if we all just gathered in front of the US Embassy in Ottawa and burned American flags and passports we’d ignite enough outrage in the US that they would demand we be given to Canada? lol.
I wonder how many US persons don’t have a US birthplace in comparison to those who do. You could hypothetically have someone born in Ecuador, having lived in the US for their entire lives move to Canada last year and not be detected as a USP. This, among other things, makes FATCA an absolute joke.
Who knows, YogaGirl? The US has the information they need on my son’s accounts reported on MY FBARs as I am the Holder for the RDSP, now at $51,000+, and the Alberta AISH funding account that I distribute as trustee. Then, there’s that little CBC interview I had.
Our case would be a good test and CBC’s James Fitz-Morris promises to do follow-up broadcast if warranted. All there for the picking. You’re right though, I do want this cut and dry and done with so my whole family can get on with their Canadian lives, never having to second guess what will happen next or to have administered the required so-called US compliance year after year after bloody year.
Not very nice of them, Em — for cases like yours or for cases like those of my son and many others. Practice that spit, click your heels 3 times and say ‘begone’ thing — perhaps that ancient, now unused green card will re-appear for you and you can fill out the blasted Form I-407 and have a copy notarized for your proof. I think this may apply to many others as well.
Right calgary411. Just one thing though, I would be filling out that blasted form for the second time. A notarized form without the stamp of approval would be of no use. My form went zip through the mail and then poof, never to return. Trapped is trapped and I’m sure your son and I are not the only ones. There are more ways than ours I’m sure to get caught in the US trap. Oh and as far as I recall I never used that card, not even down there — at least not for any employment or “benefits” — perhaps readmission at the border after a couple of trips home to Canada. It’s been a long time and I never attached anymore value to it than a driver’s license . Just didn’t recognize the significance of it.
In their bulletin for the seminar, Moody’s states “renouncing US citizenship comes with many complexities. As a result, it is essential to ensure that renunciation is done properly.”
This is a flagrant misrepresentation. One can legally renounce US citizenship without the complexity of tax US filings. What’s “proper” is subjective, especially to someone who believes that CBT is immoral and a violation of their rights. I believe that those in the tax compliance industry have a duty to tell their clients that it’s not necessary to be tax compliant in order to renounce, especially if they’re going to be in the renunciation business!
bubblebustin,
As you know, I too believe that citizenship-based taxation is immoral, very betrayal. It entraps my son and others like him (or, for example, a person who slips into dementia) into supposed US citizenship-based taxation consequences. I still don’t know the arguments for the US choice that they maintain CBT when the rest of the world has RBT — I think by doing so they show this CBT is the means for ‘deserved’ punishment and it will cost each of us dearly (even those with no choice, “accidentals”) for leaving the homeland or somehow cutting the leash they hold; we and our US-tainted children are all chattel. Something is wrong if any country entraps a person into whatever citizenship. I absolutely believe that it should be an “opt-in” to US citizenship if there are the requisite qualifications (or any other country’s citizenship), not an “opt-out”.
I will attend the Moodys seminar. I will point out, as we have discussed here, that the actual renunciation process does not require the tax compliance (at least as of right now!). DOS does not ask for that at renunciation. We must know, however, that we then have to make other decisions in making that decision to renounce without doing the compliance piece. I have a CLN but I will never feel I can cross the US border to visit relatives, at least with my son accompanying me. That is the very hard choice I have had to make. There is a big world out there, but my relatives live in the US — my only ‘kin’ here in Canada are my family — my husband and my daughter and my son. None of this is easy. We all need to consider all the consequences on which to base our decisions. I determined my line in the sand. Thank goodness for this site, as well as Maple Sandbox.
Thank you for attending the seminar, Calgary411. Moody’s is convinced that renouncing without being tax compliant is not a viable option, and perhaps for many it isn’t – but I know a few people who are going to damn well try. And if I know a few, there are lots more out there.
Calgarry 411
The decline in the Canadian dollar increase limit to $56,000 c$
Calgary411, cbt is, I fear, going to become a bigger issue for Canadians. I was reading an article in the Financial Post yesterday about the a CRA lawsuit against Conrad Black being settle in favor of the Canadian govt. The ruling essential established a precedent for Canada being able to tax the worldwide income of Canadians regardless of the country of residence.
I read through excerpts of the Finance committee meetings for last spring (Brison was there) and the Canadian focus is on tracking down earnings outside of Canada. Corporations mostly but they acknowledged that there would be collateral damage and they seemed willing to accept it.
Canada is not as broke as the US but its not flush either and the US has shown other countries how to essential turn their citizens into ATM’s.
This is going to get worse before it gets better.
YogaGirl,
…as countries may move toward that final goal, of what Just Me named, way before that term showed up in other reports, “GATCA”, and its collateral damage.