I’m moving this to the top.
PS: The other person referred to is Brocker ‘disgusted’. It was great to finally meet ‘disgusted’ and would love to meet more from Calgary and area. We talked to lots of FATCA interested people and passed out information at the end of the meeting. We both felt it was a worthwhile trip in the dark of the Alberta winter, although (with me driving) getting a little lost and a little late to the ‘meet and greet’.
From: carol tapanila
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:18 AM
To: Jeremy Broadhurst ; alex.lanthier@parl.gc.ca ; justin.trudeau@parl.gc.ca
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Action required and Justin Trudeau ‘Meet and Greet’ in Okotoks last night
Thank you for your morning email soliciting my membership in the Liberal Party.
A so-called ‘US Person’ in Canada (born “accidentally” in a US hospital to Canadian parents – there for 5 days) and I drove from Calgary to Okotoks last night for the Justin Trudeau’s ‘meet and greet.’ From the back of the room I did ask Mr. Trudeau a very important question during his short Q&A,
“What will you and the Liberals do regarding FATCA when Parliament resumes and gets down to the business of running this country?”
He acknowledged the question and then said something like, “…for you in the audience who don’t know what FATCA is, it is about people who have made income in the United States…” then went into a comparison, talking about something else entirely. He left us with the impression that he doesn’t know what FATCA is or at the least is not well versed of the consequences of FATCA US extra-territorial law entering Canada. This US extra-territorial law coming into Canada will result in loss of dollars from Canada’s treasury and loss of its very sovereignty, entitling our country’s banks and credit unions (what the US refers to as “foreign financial institutions” for those persons in Canada who our Canadian financial institutions discover in search for ‘US Persons’ using US definitions of “indicia”). FATCA will be a cost to every Canadian taxpayer who also pays banking fees to cover the cost of implementing FATCA and has the ability to destroy the lives of those ‘US Persons’ in Canada who pay their taxes to the country in which they live and work and pay taxes and receive their services and benefits. We are Canadian.
I reached Mr. Trudeau as he greeted persons after his Q&A and asked:
“Will you answer if, with FATCA, ALL Canadians will have the same rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?”
There was an answer from Justin Trudeau, but not a straight and simple ‘Yes’ or ‘NO’.
As another has summarized our country, Canada:
Pierre Trudeau would have waved the Charter in their faces and said “You’re not going to FATCA Canada.” When the media asked how far he would go to protect Canadians, Pierre would have said “Just watch me.” Comparatively, Pierre’s son and now Liberal leader is a wimp in not having done the same.
Brian Mulroney would have said “You have an option, Sir. You could say no.” Then, he would have sung “Irish Eyes Are Smiling” with Ronald Regan and cheered on free trade without FATCA.
Jean Chretien would have said “No,” just like he did with Iraq. Then, he would have golfed with Bill Clinton, royally ticking off George W.
Harper is silent.
I was warned by the US Consulate that I would be losing my US citizenship when I became a Canadian citizen in 1975. I now have OFFICIALLY renounced that US citizenship and have a Certificate of Loss of Nationality (CLN) to show my bank when they will likely discriminate by nationality in their search for ‘US Persons in Canada’. I’ve lived my life in Canada as a Canadian; this is where my children were born and raised. My son (and there will be many others like him) has a developmental disability and is “entrapped” into the absurdity of so-called US citizenship and the cost of administration of compliance by US tax returns and Foreign Bank Accounts Reports (not actual taxes) year after year after year. The US considers that his so-called US citizenship takes precedence over his citizenship by birth in Canada. He has never lived in the US or received any benefit from the US. The US says he cannot renounce that ‘un-registered with the US citizenship’ because he has ‘mental incapacity’ and also that a parent, a guardian or a trustee does not have the right to renounce on behalf of such a person, even with a court order. It is hard to understand why this would be, but I tried to tell other Canadians my family’s story in an interview with CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/u-s-fatca-tax-law-catches-unsuspecting-canadians-in-its-crosshairs-1.2493864.
Rick Mercer sums it up in one minute: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/22/rick-mercer-report-foreign-accounts-tax-compliance-act/.
Sincerely,
Carol Tapanila
Calgary, AB, Canada
From: Jeremy Broadhurst
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 5:22 AM
To: Carol Tapanila
Subject: REMINDER: Action requiredLe français suit l’anglais
Carol —
With the clock ticking on our membership drive, I want to give you one last chance to seize the opportunity to join the Liberal Party of Canada.
We’ve set an ambitious goal of 5,000 new or renewed members by midnight tonight. Already 2,161 have taken action. But we won’t reach our target without you.
Here is your current status — and how you can help:
— Your Membership Status today: Email Subscriber
— Membership drive deadline: Tonight, 11:59 PM, January 23, 2014
— Your suggested action: Click here to get your $10 LPC MembershipYou too can choose the team that will stand with Justin in the 2015 election by nominating your local Liberal candidate. And you can build the plan that all Liberals will take to Canadians as our election platform. But only if you become a member of the Party.
Justin Trudeau thinks FATCA is about people who have earned US income? HUH? What has he been smoking? Can someone set him straight soon! Please!
Sure he’s cute, and he is the son of an ex-Prime Minister, but you have to wonder about this guy’s IQ level.
@411
OMG!
Justine Trudeau is an idiot. He is not at all like his father who was an informed, intelligent man who took no guff from the USA. Thanks for going and reporting back to us.
Justin Bieber would make a more intelligent Liberal Party leader.
Thanks @calgary411 and @disgusted for attending the Liberal meet and greet with Justin Trudeau. The update was telling. Obviously Trudeau hasn’t spent any time up until now learning or thinking about FATCA. It was wrong of him to mislead the audience, and he should just have acknowledged that he didn’t know the answer, or would have to get back to you with one. Instead he blithely improvised – and went on his merry uninformed way – having done more harm by misinforming those present who would know no better. He’s a light weight, not worthy of being taken seriously.
Well that settles any lingering doubts I might ever had about whether I’ll ever switch my vote from NDP to Liberal while Mulcair leads NDP and Trudeau leads Liberals. Not even if Hell freezes over will I switch to them.
He’s been party leader long enough to have been briefed on this to know at least something about FATCA. Certainly to be better briefed than what Carol reports he said, which is utterly outrageous. Mulcair gets it; so does Elizabeth May. So for that matter does Jim Flaherty, at least from the evidence of his letter back in the Fall of 2011 to certain US papers, though he’s been awfully quiet and coy since then.
As someone once said, Justin has his father’s charisma but his mother’s brains. Not a good combination for our next Prime Minister IMO. Nothing I’d want anyway.
“Fatca is about people who have made income the US”???????????? This man needs to be educated!
I sent Trudeau a letter yesterday explaining what Fatca is doing to my family and how it goes against human rights all over the world. I also said “NO” is a very valid option and his father would have used that option.
Hmmmm, I am going to the rally in Edmonton tonight but it sounds as though actually getting to talk to the guy isn’t going to be an option.
It doesn’t surprise me at all that he doesn’t know anything about FATCA. In fact that makes him pretty much as Canadian as every other Canadian in terms of the misinformation.
But, it’s not a good thing and needs to be corrected because we need the three parties out of power to all understand what is going on.
These meet and greet things are lovely PR but bad forums for any issue that requires a conversation rather than a Q and A in 140 characters or less.
Calgary411, you got an email from Jeremy this AM too. lol. And I am already a Liberal. (rolling my eyes).
@Yoga girl
Take FATCA fact sheets with you. Good luck.. try speaking to one his assistants. May the MP in Edmonton will be there.
Yoga Girl,
Among others, last night I gave information sheet and Q121 and Q127 to Louis-Alexandre Lanthier, Executive Assistant to the Leader, Office of the Leader of The Liberal Party of Canada as I told him I thought it ludicrous that the US would think the ‘supposed’ US citizenship of my son (and other “accidental Americans”) is of more importance than his Canadian citizenship from the country of his birth. alex.lanathier@parl.gc.ca
If Trudeau doesn’t know what FATCA is, it’s either because the Liberal advisers/powers-that-be consider FATCA to be too much of a non-issue to keep their leader apprised of, or because Trudeau was unable to grasp what he was told about it. Neither possibility is good.
And to think that the LPC could have elected a rocket scientist (or close enough) as its leader.
I’m not at all surprised that Trudeau doesn’t get it – maybe Mulcair can explain it to him on the floor of the House.
@all
It was an honour to meet Calgary 411.She’s an amazing, passionate woman. We are so fortunate to have her and the many other talented individuals who work behind the scenes on our behalf.
Justin was a disapointment, but I was expecting as much. I hope Canadians have higher standards for their PM. Justin is better suited modelling underwear than occupying the PMO.
@Yogagirl
You must be pushy and a little agressive to get to him. We @ IBS would like to know if Justin’s done his homework since his poor showing in Okotoks last night. I tailed him untill he finally shook my hand. I said “Justin I campaigned for your father as a Young Liberal when I was sixteen years old. I am part of a network of a million Canadian Citizens who live as fugitives in their own country because of their US ties. Your response to our questions will be reported back to our network. As we are a highly motivated group your answers to our question will determine how we vote in the next election.”
As a long-time Liberal supporter I’m dismayed by Justin Trudeau’s ignorance on this issue and his general lack of readiness to be Prime Minister. But I could never vote to continue Harper’s government, and I don’t trust him to defend us against FATCA. I’m sure he would be willing to
agree to a FATCA IGA in a second if he could get the Keystone pipeline in return.
So for me the only real federal alternative is Thomas Mulcair’s NDP, though I fear that the NDP and Liberals may just split the vote and let Harper sneak in again. Also, though Mulcair is an impressive leader, I don’t know that he has enough good NDP candidates to back him up and form a government.
With the news today focusing on the latest antics of that other Justin and reports that Rob Ford still polls 40% job approval among Torontonians despite his latest drunken stupor, I despair for the human race. It’s no wonder that FATCA gets little press coverage if so many people are interested in being entertained by idiots.
Jeffery Simpson, in the G&M, described Justin Trudeau as being “light on policy”. It’s worrying that the Federal Liberals can’t get their act together.
AnonAnon, I understand the tendency to despair for humanity.
Disgusted, I will see what I can do. I have a feeling he attracts mostly fanboys at these things, so I am going in with low expectations.
tdott, I don’t think JT is lazy or stupid. I try to imagine what it must be like to set the pretty near impossible goal for yourself of listening to the concerns, hopes, dreams and fears of every Canadian so you can take it back and try to find a public policy that covers most citizens.
Still, no excuse for telling people the wrong information, I will see if last night made an impression.
What might help us are some numbers on Americans and Duals in Alberta. Knowing how many are in the by-election ridings so why have potential voter numbers to throw at the parties and being a part of choosing the candidates who will represent all the parties – NDP, LIberals, Greens. Perhaps we can use them as a means to force FATCA as an issue in the local media at the very least.
The by-election up by Fort Mac is going to be harder to access unless someone has connections up there but the Calgary riding could turn out to be a way to connect via the different campaigns. It really doesn’t matter who we each choose to support b/c the more times we can get someone to listen – the better.
In speaking with ANY politician, make sure they understand the size of the constituency of so-called “US persons in Canada”
“According to the Canada 2006 Census, 316,350 Canadians reported American as being their ethnicity, at least partially.[1] There are also between 900,000 and 2 million Americans living in Canada, either as full-time and part-time residents.” (Wikipedia)
The figures widely used are “more than 600,000” or “possibly a million”.
Much has been made of Harper’s trip to Israel and its effect on Canada’s Jewish population. The total population of Jews in Canada is estimated at 385,000 (according Canadian Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs).
Naturally, there is significant cross-over between these groups. I personally know at least several Jewish families who also include so-called “US persons: including some long term Canadian residents who retain US citizenship and have not yet become Canadian citizens.
Getting Canada’s Jewish constituency informed about and opposed to FATCA is critical.
Oh, and Trudeau’s Facebook page has a pic up of last night’s event that can be commented on. It is a monitored page though I see more replies to people on the Liberal Party page. I left the following:
That’s awesome. However, some of my friends who attended were a bit dismayed by Mr. Trudeau’s reply to a question about FATCA. He apparently supplied misinformation when explaining what it was, which is dismaying giving the fact that a there are more than a few in the Calgary area who are dual Canadian/American citizens and they need the correct information.
FATCA is not about people who have earned income in the US because the US taxes people who they believe fall under their tax jurisdiction on worldwide income from earnings, interest and dividends. The application of this on Duals, permanent residents from the US, greencard holders and possibly those who’ve worked there in the past and current snowbirds has the potential to financially impact the Canadian economy in a negative way.
Of course, no one can say for sure at this point because the Harper govt is conducting secret talks with the US about it and so far only the NDP and MP Ted Hsu have really called them out on it.
I can appreciate the Mr. Trudeau fields many, many questions and can’t be expected to have wikipedic knowledge on every topic that concerns or impacts Canadians but given the nature of the energy industry in Alberta, a great many Canadians, Americans and Duals go back and forth across the border for jobs – some long term – and this is an issue about which Albertans deserve some real answers and accurate explanations.
I am looking forward to seeing Mr. Trudeau tonight in Edmonton and hearing what he has to say.
Here is the link to the page:
https://www.facebook.com/JustinPJTrudeau
Letters to your local newspapers about the Okotoks event and your feelings might be an outlet too.
Thanks, YogaGirl, for letting us know about the Justin Trudeau meet and greet opportunities. We’re glad we went, if only that some, other than ‘disgusted’ and I, saw JT’s lack of knowledge of how FATCA will affect all of Canada and the large number of persons with some US indicia in Canada, which will be well more than one million.
I will belatedly send something to a local news outlet upon my return from Toronto to help with more awareness at the Toronto information session. I’m running out of time to do that now in what turned out to be a busier week than I expected. Thanks too for your comment on JT Facebook page (which I don’t do) and for attending the Edmonton session tonight. I hope someone has provided young Trudeau with better information on this important subject. Sadly, too late to the party, JT. How would your father have answered those questions?
Here is Blaze’s take:
In a reply to an e-mail I sent last February JT (or his office staffer) wrote …
“While the prevention of tax evasion is an important objective, it is important that the government also stands up for those Canadians who are being unjustly caught up in complex, American tax rules.
It is important that the IRS communicate clearly with Canadians affected by FATCA to help avoid the heavy penalties that come with failure to comply with the act. As the legislation is written by America for Americans, it is important that we ensure that our own legislation is not being hindered by these agreements. With regards to the taxation of deferred saving vehicles such as RESPs and RRSPs, as well as the taxation of Tax Free Savings Accounts, we must ensure that Canadians, who are using such programs legitimately, are protected accordingly. Canadians should not be punished for acting responsibly by saving for education and retirement.
Furthermore, it is important that any sharing of personal information between Canadian banks and the IRS only take place with substantial safeguards and oversight to protect Canadians` interests. “
It sounded like befuddled-duddle to me and now I know why. Someone has to begin educating this young man. How safe would it feel to him to have all his sensitive financial information sent against his will to the USA each year?
@Em
I agree.
Okay, so I am back from the rally and that’s all that it was. Lots of people stuffed shoulder to shoulder while JT gave a speech to “rally” the troops so to speak for the coming by-elections, and though he didn’t bring it up, it was probably to gauge interest because we will have new ridings in the next election and some of the founding meetings are already planned.
I am in one of the new ridings and I plan to be at the first meeting and to do my best to get a candidate nominated who understands things like FATCA – among other things – because I believe it’s important. With luck however, I won’t be an American by the time the next election rolls around but a Canadian and just a Canadian.
Ironically, I have FATCA and US overreach to thank for deciding to be Canadian rather than a dual national. And it’s not about money. It’s made clear to me that I was never really American in my values or worldview.
Trudeau’s oratory skills have never impressed me. He’s good enough – like most of them are – but tonight, he nailed it.
I am not looking for a savior in a political leader. I still believe that change filters up from the communities and the grassroots. Which is what we are doing here, right?
There will be more opportunities. And don’t forget, you NDP’rs, Mulcair is threatening to hit the road ala JT. Need to start monitoring the NDP site and show up there too.
Meet and Greet Justin in Okotoks
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/politics/Trudeau+says+Tory+policies+giving+oilsands+black/9419152/story.html#Comments
Calgary Herald:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/politics/Trudeau+says+Tory+policies+giving+oilsands+black/9419152/story.html#Comments
@Yoga girl
Justin’s ability to deliver a speech is not in question. It was passionate and well articulated but weak in substance. I am more interested in what he’s got to say when he’s left to his devices and in these situations he generally sinks the ship. Our memories are not that short that we forget his position on senate reform, and Chinese Dictatorships. The fact that he didn’t field questions from the audience leaves me suspect.
In my opinion if the liberals are elected we’ll see no change. Justin is pro-Israel but doesn’t think Harper is handling himself well in Israel. Justin is pro oil but doesn’t think the Conservatives are doing it properly.
I wasn’t impressed by Trudeau’s vision of a “Strong Canada” because I don’t think he has one. The experience of “Meet and Greet with Justin in Okotoks’’ was like a bad first date, full of anticipation because he’s looking pretty hot, but turns out to be a dud when you realize you have no chemistry.
Ron Meek who publishes The Underground Press” sums up the way I am feel about two party politics in his article about the byelections on November 25, 2013.
He says ‘’ Voters cast ballots in four byelections Monday with Liberals keeping Toronto Centre and the Montreal riding of Bourassa and the Conservatives holding the two Manitoba ridings of Provencher and Brandon-Souris. No change, except for the large gains made in vote percentage of the Liberals. Seems they are back in the race. We just never seem to learn. The Libs. screw us, so we vote in the PC’s. They get corrupt and sloppy, so we return the Libs. They do it to us again and we install the PC’s who screw up and we return the Libs. who get corrupt and we elect the “new kind of integrity” Conservatives, who promptly show us the “new type of integrity’’ looks very much like the old type of integrity and dishonesty.
Einstein’s definition of insanity: Repeating the same actions with the expectation of different results .
NDP haven’t captured our interest, Green’s seem to be PC lite (green). Try something new. Nope.”
Many people in my circle, when we gather to discuss politics are of the opinion that voting for an Independent is the wisest course as they serve the interests of the people they represent and not the agenda of the master. I am being converted.