76 thoughts on “CBC News re FATCA and Unsuspecting Canadians, “calgary411” interviewed”

1. I’m disappointed. WhiteKat managed to break the CBC comment section down earlier today. She overloaded it. I’ve been trying all day, only managed 36 comments (so far) and I sure didn’t break it. I think I might have come close a couple of times to getting my privileges revoked though. I said I’d get your back, calgary411, and I gave it my best shot. I really don’t know how the super Brockers do lightning fast and multi commenting. I do know I am tired. However, the main thing is the CBC blitzed their media outlets today with this issue and that is such a good thing. How do we keep it in the eyes and ears of everyone from here until IGA D-day?

2. Em, you’re delightful. To all of my friends here and at Maple Sandbox, I thank you so much for your support. I couldn’t have done what I did without all of you behind me. I so appreciate the fight in all of you. We must be heard. Onward we go.

3. I second Patricia!

4. Calgary/Carol, superb job! Thank you!

5. @Calgary
   Thank you. Your son is lucky to have such a determined defender, and the American community is fortunate to have you as an advocate.

6. @badger

   “I am so worried that there are now more lambs to the slaughter – to lose thousands signing up with incompetent or gouging professionals. Or rushing into the OVD and Streamlined without understanding how full of pitfalls and footfaults there are.”

   I’m hoping that many people will take their inspiration from Gwen and give the IRS the one-fingered salute.

   @Em

   I too winced at the “tax dodger” reference by Mansbridge, but I felt that what followed made a distinction between the dodgers and the benign actors. Of course there’s always the risk that the distinction was too subtle for those who only absorb the sensational headlines.

7. Thank you, vin-de-table, and all here. I had you all in mind and I know you were behind me in putting myself forward with my story. I knew the risk I was taking and the blow back I’d get from some. Some commenters wish me harm; some think it is a cowardly ploy in the story of someone disabled instead of the “average US Person in Canada”; most are supportive; we have made great progress with the help of CBC for awareness of FATCA combined with US citizenship-based taxation in Canada. Let’s continue our fight, thankful we have made a bigger dent yesterday.

8. I’m pretty sure that I touched on this issue previously. Unless the kid was born in the US, you simply never bother to report it to the embassy. *Technically* they are a US citizen, however they are undocumented as the claim must be supported with residency history confirming ability to transmit the citizenship. Lacking this, they have no definitive measure to determine status, and must therefore operate under the assumption of non-citizen.

   Born in the US? yep, fucked. Reported to the embassy? yep. fucked.

9. @Fred,

   Full account information on the accounts that you hold for your adult child with a disability reported in your Foreign Bank Account Reports (FBARs) submitted to the US as you are the Holder of those accounts: F***ed??? Probably another of the many mistakes I have made and wish others NOT to make. Thanks for your comment with this important POV.

10. If the bank considers all undocumented children of USC’s themselves to be USC’s, we’re f***ed.

11. From: caroltapanila
    Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 5:57 PM
    To: Prime Minister Stephen Harper ; Minister James Flaherty ; Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca ; Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
    Cc: Ted.Hsu@parl.gc.ca ; scott.brison@parl.gc.ca ; thomas.mulcair@parl.gc.ca ; Murray.Rankin@parl.gc.ca ; Elizabeth.May@parl.gc.ca ; justin.trudeau@parl.gc.ca ; Abby Deshman, CCLA
    Subject: CBC News Coverage

    Dear Canadian Government Representatives,

    As you may or may not know, I had interviews with CBC News reporters Amber Hildebrant and James Fitz-Morris last week, portions of which CBC ran on Monday, January 13, 2014. I and so many others appreciate very much that CBC has better brought the FATCA story to the Canadian public.

    I wish to share with you one of the comments from the CBC News article by Ms. Hildebrant ( http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/u-s-fatca-tax-law-catches-unsuspecting-canadians-in-its-crosshairs-1.2493864# ). This one commenter to that article is now aware because of my coming forward with my son’s story through CBC, placing myself and my family in possible harm’s way by revealing my name. I could no longer hide in fear as so many US Persons in Canada are doing; I would further betray myself by doing so. From the comment stream which now is over 2100:

    Allyson11
    My US-born son with autism is 18.5 years old, lives in Canada with Canadian-born parents, is a Canadian citizen, and, as a minor, isn’t required to file a US tax return, right? He was born during my husband’s temporary academic posting in the US in 1995 and our family moved back to Canada in 1999.

    I understand that this US-Canada agreement will require my son’s bank to disclose the fact of his US citizenship to the IRS, which will then be able to access information about his RDSP and other financial information, such as his receipt of provincial disability benefits. Will my son, who is profoundly disabled, never able to live without 1-1 support, and whose family all reside in Canada, truly be expected to file US income tax returns for the rest of his life? If so, it is clearly in his best interests to renounce his US citizenship. However, the US won’t even allow him to do this! Our son would never be able to pass the required US consulate interview assessing mental competency and understanding of the consequences of renunciation. What an incredible situation!

    I am frustrated and stressed now beyond words. Our life with our son has enough challenges, thank you very much.

    My response:

    Carol Tapanila
    @Allyson11 ,

    Your family situation is the same as mine. My son with a developmental disability cannot renounce as he does not have the requisite mental capacity. It is immoral that a parent, a guardian or a trustee cannot do so on behalf of our family member. Your family and others is the reason I have put my family’s story here and by doing so risking retaliation from the US. It is for awareness of the absurdity and the injustice.

    From my Washington, DC immigration / nationality lawyer:
    Quote: DOS persons he talked with have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, US citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. Unquote

    Bottom line: “compelling reason” in their regulations is not helpful to my son’s case. I could sue – persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence.

    Unfortunately, I have no way of reaching this woman unless she again goes to the CBC article site and and sifts through the now over 2100 comments to find her original message for my reply and then I sift through the same looking for her further comment. My second comment to her that suggested a way she could get in touch with me had “CONTENT DISABLED” so she would not have been able to see that information.

    This woman, too, needs to know if her Canadian government in negotiations with the US for an intergovernmental agreement will waive her family’s and her disabled son’s rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I and many others are still waiting to have the answer to “Do ALL Canadians have the same rights – no matter where they were born?”.

    When will we receive that simple answer so we know what our next steps must be?

    Respectfully submitted,
    Carol Tapanila
    Calgary, AB

12. Comments to this CBC News article are now closed. I have sent a thank you.

    From: caroltapanila
    Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:03 AM
    To: Amber Hildebrandt, CBC ; James Fitz-Morris
    Cc: Prime Minister Stephen Harper ; Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca ; Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca ; Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
    Subject: Another thank you for the awareness you’ve provided the Canadian public…

    Amber and James,

    I see that comments are closed for the CBC News article with so many comments. I thank the commenters who supported me and the persons who tried to answer questions and educate on what is happening with US FATCA law coming across our border. I hope that many now realize it is the US’s citizenship-based taxation that makes it possible for the US to leech funds from US Persons in Canada, their Canadian government and each Canadian taxpayer.

    More and more will be underlined the absurdity and the unfairness of all of this but that will not be resolution. Some (like my for my son and others whose “foreign” identification will not show a US place of birth, MAY HE FORGIVE ME FOR HAVING SOLD HIM OUT, although his “foreign financial accounts” are identified in the Foreign Bank Account Reports that I’ve “complied with” and sent to the US). It will be that some can be more easily nabbed and put through the wringer of the injustice of FATCA combined with US citizenship-taxation than others. None of this will be equitable and none of it should be as US Person “ignorance” allows criminalization by the US.

    With the coverage you have interviewed us for and CBC has provided, I hope that more in Canada have learned of the powerful club the US has with its citizenship-based taxation – and, in my family’s case, that a smaller segment ARE ENTRAPPED, no two ways about that. The US could do something about this. It appears they will not. I’m not holding my breath. And, I am in despair that the other governments of the world can not show some strength and solidarity in saying NO to FATCA that reaps so much collateral damage for their own people.

    As has been said by others, and I agree, in regard to the “streamlined compliance”:

    But why the hell SHOULD anyone have to? And if they don’t for whatever reason – whether they don’t qualify, or they don’t hear about until its too late, or they don’t want to – then all bets are off, and IRS can penalize them to their hearts content. Finance Minister Flaherty has expressed approval (given blessing to?) the Streamlined program.; this presumes that Canadians with a US status SHOULD make all efforts to become compliant with USA’s immoral citizenship based taxation laws.

    I will support all US Persons in whatever choices they have to make for themselves and their families. Yes, we all have to make our own choices. We still hold out some hope that our Canadian government will say no to FATCA. We still want to know from our government if ALL Canadians have the same rights, no matter where they were born, their discrimination by “nationality”.

    Even the thought of the US being able to tax gains in our very Canadian personal residence sales that Canada does not makes me want to scream.

    So, again, I want to thank Gwen for helping get the CBC coverage better rolling and you two for so respectfully interviewing me. Because of you, there are others in Canada now aware and starting their own research so they can eventually make decisions for themselves and their own families. US Persons in Canada and around the world are so scattered. It is unfortunate that we are not one big US Person group that could go out in solidarity to express the outrage we feel about yet more US collateral damage, this time us!

    We have all have a hurt of this betrayal that in no way will ever be erased. It is helping me to have spoken out.

    Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for the opportunity.

    Carol Tapanila

    PS: I would love the opportunity to reach the person who commented about her, in this instance profoundly disabled son, who will be affected. Above all, I am glad that I reached her in this story but I am unable to tell her that – unless she was able to sift through the many comments to see my tardy reply to her.

13. Calgary 411
    I know now why you could not hide and beat the system.
    I guess KalC knew these facts.
    Wait until the FACTA iga comes out. Read very carefully before determining your procedure. The USA can not collect taxes from your son while he is in Canada. He is a minnow (tax wise) anyways.
    Because you are no longer anonymous you may legally be liable for your son not filling USA taxes. Therefore there is a slim possibility of you being arrested in USA for failing to file on behalf of him.
    I think this is a very slim chance of happening whereas Petros has big target on his back,
    You and your sons are minnows.
    He has a very sympathetic story.
    Wheras Petros
    is a big fish it is worth there while going after him
    he may still invest in US stocks
    he writes for a right wing on line magazine (American Thinker) every heard of IRS scandal targeting tea party. He may have insulted Democrat and IRS somewhere.

    On another subject I still think your son biggest problem is he will not have enough money for him to have a decent life, when you are no longer around I would say that he would need at least $15,000 of cash flow per year for that purpose. The disability plan would only last a few years under that situation.

    After 65 he would get Old age Pension and if he has limited other income a guaranteed supplemental income, http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/services/pensions/oas/gis/index.shtml I do not know if he has CPP income. You may have enough assets to allow him a decent life so a reputable financial planner may have suggestion.

14. My mistake
    Please note Old age pension and Old age income will start 67 if he was born after 1959.

15. I should have also included in my first comment that “should you decide not to file you could be legally liable in USA”.

16. @calgary411,
    Thanks for the update, and for your tireless efforts – in being interviewed, and on the comments in follow up – even though some there would try the patience of a saint.

    Even though I was polite, several of my comments disappeared. Maybe too many URLs or political plaudits and disses?

    Anyway, the story stayed at the top of most read for quite a while! Great work @calgary, and Gwen and all the brave Brockers. I salute you.

    And others having their OMG moment have some other sources of information and can better consider their options than some/many of us back in the fall of 2011. Such a long nightmare.

    And where are our valiant Prime Minister and his party on this? Or have they already caved and are maintaining radio silence as the CBA and IIAC get their sieves ready. And put the IRS and US Treasury on speed dial. Or maybe there’s a red phone.

17. The only thing I can think of all this is that I firmly believe that Calgary and her disabled son will be left alone because it would cause such a diplomatic incident. In fact, the fact that she has come out into the open should actually protect her because of the further uproar she would cause if the IRS or FINCEN were to pursue her for fines on his behalf.

    It’s obvious to me that her case is completely innocent and that the TAS would intervene on her behalf if this were to be actually pursued.

    My prediction is that FATCA will still go ahead in Switzerland and major EU countries such as the UK but will make a special exception for US persons in Canada, at least for those also with Canadian citizenship.

    One thing my accountant keeps stressing is that it costs the IRS too much to aggressively pursue people through the foreign courts when there aren’t huge amounts of money involved. I would thus assume that minnow expat benign actors who’ve lost huge amounts in fines or penalties have done so by effectively being duped into the OVDI/OVDP programs. Unfortunately, I now believe the biggest danger we face is not so much the IRS itself as much as it is the predatory attorneys and some of the accountants too who will obviously be milking FATCA for all it’s worth!

    I believe that many of us have unwittingly wound up entering into traps, and Calgary’s was from blindly following orders to get a US passport after being sternly warned on the border…

18. > My prediction is that FATCA will still go ahead in Switzerland and major EU countries such as the UK but will make a special exception for US persons in Canada, at least for those also with Canadian citizenship.

    How about the clause that says that if a country gets a better deal, it applies to all other IGAs?
    Would that mean that if Canada gets an exemption for Canadian citizen, this would apply in the other countries that have signed an IGA as well?

19. @Calgary411,

    That was a very well written letter! Thank you for all your tireless efforts.

20. @Calgary, indeed a very well-written letter and interview!

    @No one , I have no idea, of course; I’m just guessing that some sort of deal will have to be reached because the shit’s going to hit the fan soon and I suspect the US will have to backtrack, at least with Canada. The UK and other EU countries that immediately agreed to an IGA will play poodle because they’re aiming to introduce their own version of FATCA, albeit on an RBT vs CBT basis.

    Another reason why I don’t think the UK will push back is because they want to try an maintain the so-called ‘special relationship’ with the US. There is virtually nothing here in the news or media about it; I have written to my MP with no response; expats I know or have come into contact all either think I’m wearing a tin hat or are playing ostrich. I suppose the only good thing about this is that I doubt if the UK will come into the direct line of fire as Switzerland and Israel are suffering.

    I am, of course, hoping that the end result of the Canadian pushback will be FATCA’s repeal, though would guess it’s more likely that they’ll wind up making special exceptions for Canada under the guise that it’s obviously not a tax haven. The IRS wouldn’t have the resources or hopefully no inclination to aggressively go after ordinary Canadians which is probably largely why they sound so scaremongering in their tactics, to get people to be frightened out of their wits and voluntarily go to them first via the compliance industry of predatory tax attorneys and accountants, etc.

21. @monalisa1776 have there be some bank discrimination against US persons in the UK?
    If that happens, that is what might make people go to the press. Even though, under an IGA, I’ve read banks can withdraw the 30% but not close the accounts.
    Are most expats you talked to on short term (couple years) assignments from big US companies. If this is the case, they don’t have much to worry about, as usually, as part of the deal, the company does their taxes for them, so they don’t really care, unless of course the bank closes their accounts.

22. monalisa1776
    The Canadian courts will not enforce US tax judgement it is called revenue rule.
    http://uniset.ca/other/cs6/68OR2d379.html

23. Calgary if the USA traps your son on tax issues see if he is eligible for ssa
    http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10026.pdf
    I also suggest that if you have children who retained their USA citizenship, they avoid government jobs. You never know how some civil servant may react, if they think your mom is a trouble-maker.

24. @no one says, so far there hasn’t been any indication that I’m aware of apart from HSBC. That’s one of the good things about the IGA, plus I understand that many types of account similar to TFSAs and RRSPs, along with employer defined contribution pension schemes will all be deemed compliant.

25. George III,

    Sorry for the tardiness in responding. Just want to say thanks for all of your comments / suggestions to me. I have two children. My daughter has renounced — no chance of government jobs from our corner of Canada. None of us back to the USA.