Dec 25 UPDATE:
My Christmas letter response to TD Bank CEO Ed Clark:
December 25, 2014
Ed Clark
Group President and
Chief Executive Officer
TD Bank
Toronto Dominion Centre
P.O Box 193
Toronto ON
M5K 1H6Dear Mr. Clark,
Re: Customer(s) declines TD Bank’s comfortable FATCA experience and cancels bank account
You might remember me as the customer who requested that your bank remove an offensive statement from your website. In the offending sentence TD Bank states a commitment to “ensure” that its US customers in Canada, terrified by having their bank records forcibly turned over by your bank to US IRS, will somehow receive a “comfortable” experience while they are being FATCA’d.
The response to my request, issued jointly from three departments, was surprising: TD Bank is adamant, illogically, that it can actually provide meaningful comfort for its US customers who are being FATCA’d (e.g., customers will listen to Mozart sonata while seated in proprietary TD-green recliner?). Paradoxically the letter also notes that your bank might revise the offensive sentence in future—but why consider revising, as you insist that the statement is accurate, fair, and not offensive?
TD Bank also shifts the blame, unfairly I feel, to the hapless Canadian Bankers Association which never promised on behalf of any Canadian bank–not even TD Bank– a positive FATCA experience to customers. Your bank is the only financial institution in Canada, probably even worldwide, to make the extraordinary claim of comfort provided while a foreign government confiscates a customer’s life’s savings. In this respect, TD Bank’s service may well be, as you say, “legendary.”
I just wanted to let you know that I cancelled my account with TD Bank the day after I received your bank’s unacceptable response. I now have an account with another major Canadian bank that does plan to FATCA me, but will treat me with better respect by not aiming to give a comfortable FATCA experience.
For the future I am considering banking with one of the smaller credit unions that will not provide any FATCA experience whatsoever to its customers.
Mr. Clark, please appreciate that there are one million (plus) US person households in Canada. We all have banking options (so far) and we have long memories. We will never forget those who chose not to treat us fairly and with respect.
I have cc’d this letter to Finance Minister Flaherty and to others and will be hand delivering a copy to my local MP Mr. Bernard Trottier.
Sincerely,
[Name disclosed on letter]
Cc: Honourable Jim Flaherty, Minister of Finance
Honourable Bernard Trottier, MP Etobicoke-Lakeshore
Honourable Scott Brison, Finance Critic
[ ] Senior Manager, Customer Experience Strategy
Selected US persons abroad
Dec 20 UPDATE:
I closed my TD Bank account in response to TD Bank’s unacceptable response.
Dec 19 UPDATE:
—THE FINAL RESPONSE FROM TD BANK:
Dear IRSCF,
I am writing to you on behalf of the following TD departments: Legal, Corporate Communications and Public Affairs, and the Ombudsman’s Office in regards to your request to remove content from our website regarding FATCA.
We, TD Bank, acknowledge that you have made several requests to various TD departments seeking further information in regards to FATCA [??]. While the FATCA guidelines issued by the IRS will apply to all non-U.S. financial institutions around the world, the Canadian government is negotiating a bilateral agreement with the U.S. Once defined, all Canadian banks will be subject to the requirements resulting from this agreement.
The statements on our website accurately reflect the nature in which TD is responding to its legal obligation in order to comply with the Canadian legislation that will implement Canada’s bilateral agreement with the U.S. on FATCA. With regards to your objection about using “comfortable” in our website, we strive to provide a comfortable experience to our customers by ensuring that they always receive accurate and timely information with regards to FATCA [but see Badger’s comments below]. Nonetheless, we will take your feedback into account when we next refresh the FATCA content on our website.
We feel we have addressed your concerns to the best of our ability and we now consider the matter closed. For further correspondence regarding changes impacting the Canadian banking industry, we suggest you contact the Canadian Bankers Association (http://www.cba.ca/en).
Regards,
[ ….Customer Experience Strategy]
BE LEGENDARY! [text in green]
Every Customer. Every Time. Everyone [text in green].
Dec 18 UPDATE:
—TD Bank Ombudsman sends email stating that it will ensure that I receive a response from the bank.
Dec 12 UPDATE:
—As ten days have passed without any decision by TD Bank to my request for deletion of the offensive sentence on its website, I have forwarded the Dec 2 letter and all email correspondence to the TD Ombudsman for resolution (Step 3).
Dec 7 UPDATE:
—the letter of concern has now been escalated to some unknown component of TD Bank.
Dec 3 UPDATE:
—The complaint has been received by TD Bank.
THE ORIGINAL POSTING:
TD Bank has issued a statement on its website committing the bank to provide customers impacted by FATCA with “support and information” to ensure that they somehow will receive a “comfortable” experience while the bank is helping the US impose this law.
This statement is offensive and the letter below asks TD Bank to delete the statement from its public website and to apologize to its customers:
[SENT BY HARD COPY AND POSTED ONLINE AT ISAACBROCKSOCIETY.CA AND MAPLESANDBOX.CA]
December 2, 2013
Attn: Customer Service
Toronto-Dominion Centre
P.O Box 193
Toronto, ON
M5K 1H6E-mail: customerservice@td.com
Dear Sir/Madam
Re: Request for deletion of offensive statement on TD Bank website
This is a request that TD Bank delete the second sentence in section #5 of your website: http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/customer-service/overview/fatca.jsp
The sentence reads: “TD is committed to providing impacted customers with support and information to ensure they receive a comfortable experience once the law comes into effect.”
The law referred to in this sentence is the U.S. imposed Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) in which TD Bank will assist a branch of a foreign government, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS), in obtaining financial information on its customers in Canada.
I ask that the sentence be deleted firstly, because it is offensive and mean-spirited for your bank to suggest that your “U.S. person” customers in Canada, whose banking information will be turned over forcibly by your bank to the U.S. IRS, might ever consider such an unpleasant experience to be “comfortable.”
This sentence must also be deleted, especially given the deliberate selection of the word “ensure,” because, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, the statement is misleading—and your bank is not permitted by federal regulation to provide misleading information to the public. In this regard, TD Bank (as would all reasonable people) must admit that it is not possible that the experience of an “impacted” Canadian of having his/her banking information turned over to a foreign government could ever, on logical grounds, be made “comfortable.”
To the extent that the statement implies that TD Bank will provide a positive experience, the sentence is misleading.
Moreover, advocating for a change in banking, privacy, and human rights laws to meet demands of a foreign country is a serious betrayal of your long-time customers who are highly likely to consider alternatives to banking at TD Bank.
I ask that this deletion be made no later than by end of business day December 6, 2013 and at the same time TD Bank issue a statement on the website alerting the public that the change has been made. In addition, an apology must be issued. The apology should include a statement that a description of the “service” of providing a “comfortable” experience to those customers impacted by FATCA was regretfully inappropriately worded.
TD Bank’s “Step One” of resolving problems, prior to escalating the concern to the TD Ombudsman, includes providing the names of TD Bank employees involved in the dispute. The names of these employees include [ ] and [ ] at TD Bank who would not respond directly to my requests (November 26 and 27, 2013) to speak to your bank to resolve FATCA issues raised on your website—instead directing me to contact the Canadian Banking Association (which did not make this offensive statement in your website). Because your employees would not agree to my request for an interview, I have had no choice but to seek assistance from TD Bank Customer Service.
I suggest that you elevate my concern to [ ], as [ ] appears to be the [ ] FATCA point person for TD Bank. Please forward this letter to [his/her] office, as the address of TD’s FATCA point person is not disclosed to the public.
The names of these TD Bank employees are being provided in my letter only to “Customer Service” and are not copied to others.
I also have copied this letter to Finance Minister Flaherty and to his relevant counterparts in the NDP (Murray Rankin, National Revenue critic) and Liberal (Scott Brison, Finance and National Revenue critic) parties, as all three have opinions on your bank’s (unfortunate) involvement in implementation of the U.S. FATCA law.
In addition, this letter will be forwarded to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada (FCAC), responsible for dealing with complaints to federally regulated banks. Please confirm that the following “Public Commitment” statement on the FCAC site: “CBA member banks will provide the information in language, and present it in a manner, that is clear, simple and not misleading” applies to public descriptions of all services provided by TD Bank.
I do appreciate that the offending sentence was most likely drafted by an overzealous individual in your Public Affairs department. Nevertheless, the sentence is patently offensive, misleading from the perspective of an impacted customer who will be terrified by the consequences of your bank’s actions– and TD Bank must correct the error.
If TD Bank does not agree to remove the sentence, please advise immediately and provide explicit confirmation. My contact details are shown below.
Sincerely,
[Name and address provided to TD Bank and to all cc’d]
cc: [TD Bank employee]
Honourable Minister James Flaherty
Honourable Scott Brison
Honourable Murray Rankin
Financial Consumer Agency of Canada
Nice work, IRSCompliantForever. Thank you.
See minor update above to original post.
Thanks very much for keeping us up to date!
See December 18 update with response from TD Ombudsman.
We are early days on my complaint..
Thanks for the update, IRSCF.
RBC was recently forced to be more responsive on the matter of foreign workers: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rbc-chief-listening-after-foreign-worker-controversy-1.1333415
See at top of post the final response from TD Bank.
Thank you for that @IRSCompliant. I will be sure to pass it on to my relatives who bank at TD – with my own personal annotations and comments!
My Dec 20 UPDATE:
Re: TD response
I am not sure what an acceptable response would have been, but the response they gave was unacceptable and not particularly well thought out. I think they may regret that particular response down the road.
Thanks to IRSC for taking the time to write the TD bank.
@IRS compliant forever
Thank you for reminding all of us that not only can we renounce and relinquish we also have the power of the purses and can vote with our wallets
And, I wonder if front-line staff at our banks are well equipped to deal with customers and their questions about FATCA. My queries at another major Canadian bank tell me otherwise and my query to online Customer Service Message Centre to that same bank got no response. It appears that it may require Canadian outrage from good coverage in the media (as for RBC foreign worker situation and eventual Nixon apology), but we know FATCA has not reached that transparency yet. At any rate, it would be wise for financial institutions to anticipate our questions at our Canadian (and other country) banks in preparation for questions that will come up with more and more information like this: http://www.ibtimes.com/americans-abroad-cant-bank-smoothly-fatca-tax-evasion-reform-comes-play-1517032#.UrR16sRdyRU.twitter
I get the distinct impression that these larger banks and brokerages frankly don’t care. As far as they’re concerned, we’re mere krill…all they really care about is maximizing their profits.
@monalisa1776
Maximizing profits and covering their (and some of their customer’s) you-know-what’s!
@ calgary411
“It appears that it may require Canadian outrage from good coverage in the media (as for RBC foreign worker situation and eventual Nixon apology), but we know FATCA has not reached that transparency yet.”
The banks need the element of surprise in order to get away with their FATCA compliance regime. That is why the media has been pretty silent on this issue. The media is owned and manipulated in Canada just as it is in the USA. If they are going to get away with FATCA and prevent people from preparing (e.g. getting their money out of the banking system) they have to ensure that a very large percentage of the FATCA affected do not become aware of this atrocity until it is too late to take steps to ameliorate the harm it will inevitably cause them. One day they will receive a seemingly innocuous letter from their bank (similar to the Belize letter) and without knowing what it is really about they will voluntarily provide their SS number and sign the go-ahead form to have their banking data transmitted to the IRS. Game over! The bank gains full control of their savings and they are thrown into the pit of perpetual paperwork.
@IRS Compliant Forever
Bravo. I am working on my banking. I so not have a Canada Trust bank account. I hope you expressed tomthe teller why you closed the account.
I applaud your actions IRSCompliantForever. TD and the other CBA members need to be reminded that the assets in our accounts are OUR property, and that as consumers we have options. Even if our credit unions are subjected to comply with FATCA eventually, they are not disingenuously and patronizingly promising that they will make complying with FATCA a ‘comfortable’ experience, and they do not seem to have been skulking FATCA enablers manipulating behind the backs of Canadians and accountholders.
I also note that re the accuracy of the comment by TD:
…”With regards to your objection about using “comfortable” in our website, we strive to provide a comfortable experience to our customers by ensuring that they always receive accurate and timely information with regards to FATCA….”
We know that TD and the other CBA members are and have been made privy to ongoing information regarding FATCA IGA negotiations that we are not being kept apprised of as Canadian citizens, taxpayers and accountholders. We know that they have been privy to FATCA updates that are not being shared with the Canadian public. We know that by design, even when/if an IGA is signed, notice to the public may be delayed; “…… public announcement may follow many days or weeks after officials conclude their negotiations…”… (from ‘FATCA Anxiety Increasing: Pause or Full Steam Ahead?’ Gary Rogers, Vice President, Financial Policy, Credit Union Central of Canada May 14, 2013
Thus, that statement about “ensuring that they always receive accurate and timely information with regards to FATCA” cannot be true.
See:
http://www.cucentral.ca/Connections/FATCA%20Anxiety%20Increasing%20FINAL.pdf
………….”Credit Union Central of Canada (Canadian Central) has been meeting jointly with other financial sector associations, such as the Canadian Bankers Association, and Finance Canada officials to track progress of negotiations between Canada and the U.S. that are expected to result in an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) detailing the requirements for Canadian financial institutions, including credit unions….”
………
..”On May 2, Canadian Central was told by Finance Canada that negotiations are continuing; it will be
several weeks before further information is available; and a public announcement may follow many days
or weeks after officials conclude their negotiations….”
@badger
Your are a FATCA forensics expert! Your analysis and recording of all of this will undoubtably prove very valuable in the future. I would not want to be one of your kids trying to get away with anything. GOTCHA!
See also http://www.cucentral.ca/SitePages/Publications/Connections.aspx
‘FATCA: Deadlines approach, Details remain elusive’ , Dec 17, 2013
Better if possible, to join a credit union that to stay an accountholder at a CBA member bank in my opinion. Perhaps not all Canadian credit unions are equal, and some of the LARGER ones may have more restrictions under FATCA, but nevertheless, the only useful information we have gleaned – even indirectly, has come from credit unions. NOT Banks. Not the CBA or the IIAC.
Too bad the CBC didn’t interview someone from Credit Union Central Canada rather than the CBA mouthpiece http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/11/13/fatca-under-fire-from-tax-experts-canadian-citizens/
Remember this statement:
…”“Bottom line is: there is absolutely no way that a large, modern financial institution like a Canadian bank or a LARGE (my emphasis) credit union could escape FATCA,” says Marion Wrobel, vice-president of policy and operations at the Canadian Bankers Association (CBA).”
and this observation;
….”So far the banks’ protests have changed little. The best they have been able to do is take some of the heat off themselves directly….”
from
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-banks-to-be-compelled-to-share-clients-info-with-u-s-1.2437975
@bubblebustin, just trying to contribute. I had a problem with translating ‘timely’ and ‘accurate’ into my Canadian accountholder, consumer, taxpayer and citizen understanding of those terms, as opposed to the more expansive usage in the TD statement.
Christmas letter response to TD Bank CEO Ed Clark posted above.
@IRSCompliantForever,
That is a great letter! You are one heck of a FATCA fighter; you don’t even rest on Christmas!
@IRS Compliant
Great response letter you wrote to TD. As WhiteKat wrote you don’t rest even on Xmas. We all appreciate you doing this and keeping us updated. It will be interesting if you get a response and what it will be.
IRSCompliantForever;
May TD and the CBA receive only C135H96O9NS deposits.
I am doing my best to persuade family and friends to switch to credit unions in light of the CBA and IIAC members’ skulking collaborationist lobbying of our federal government to sign on to a FATCA IGA.
Even if in the end all or most Canadian financial institutions are forced to capitulate if Harper signs > 1 million Canadians and their family assets over for surveillance and confiscation by the US, at least we are not forced to do business with those who demonstrated unseemly eagerness to spend the profits gleaned from OUR deposits, in their self interested lobbying FOR an IGA.
Credit Unions are the better option for consumers and accountholders. Don’t bank, credit union instead:
CBA members take note;
http://www.cuna.org/Stay-Informed/News-Now/Washington/Call-for-FATCA-Repeal-Could-Gain-Momentum/
And,
Ask yourself why TD and the CBA and the IIAC are so very keen on Canada capitulating to the US under a FATCA IGA, yet the Volcker rule is getting such resistance as an issue of Canadian banking sovereignty and perhaps a NAFTA challenge? See; ‘Volcker Rule: Canada’s Financial Industry Hints At Challenge To U.S. Bank Reform Under NAFTA’ http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/05/volcker-rule-canada-nafta-challenge_n_1186272.html
and, also see:
Canadian bank accountholders will be billed to cover the additional costs associated with implementing FATCA as well as the Volcker Rule ; …”…Canadian banks with large U.S. operations will face a vast increase in operating costs and reduced profits at their capital market businesses, tempting bank leaders to look to Canadian consumers to cover some of those costs through higher service charges and interest rates on loans, mortgages and other services….”… from ‘Volcker Rule release will be banking’s test for NAFTA’
John Turley-Ewart, Special to Financial Post | December 9, 2013 http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/12/09/volcker-rule-release-will-be-bankings-test-for-nafta/