photo from yesterday, day 1 of protest
PROTEST EVENING POSTMORTEM:
I know that this small protest did reach the FIsters attending the conference and put them on notice–because most refused to look us in the eye.
This protest happened because of the dedication of on-site protesters including Atticus, Marie, Northernstar, Peter, Tricia, and WhiteKat, those (including Blaze and James Jatras) who helped in preparation of the letter to the Canadian Bankers Association that was critical to the protest, and because of the others I am not certain that I can mention.
Amazing people, all.
On-site coverage from IRSCompliantForever :
15.54. A last goodbye from all of us to the banksters.
15:03. Banker from small bank who hates FATCA just signed petition.
14:24. AttIcus just explained FATCA to passerby. Response was “Well, the banks need a little (words deleted).”
14:14. Banksters we meet all express sympathy but insist that there is no way to prevent FATCA. So many passerbys wondering about this FATCA word.
13:18. Fellow from one of the major banks visited with us had a friendly chat and accepted the CBA letter. He asked that we not disclose the name of his bank. Banksters are also taking pictures of us.
12.55. Another passerby came up to us expressing concern that her daughter has a Green Card.
Reports and photos of earlier today and yesterday after the jump
12:53. A passerby just came up to us expressing concern that she was born to a US parent and asked whether FATCA applied. Atticus explained and the woman thanked us for being here.
11:23. Unexpectedly another protester arrived with signs. Someone we all know.
11:13. Police have arrived again.
10:51. Nice sunny day. One bankster inside gave us the thumbs up. We had a nice chat with two reps of a major FI who accepted the CBA letter.
***
Day 1 of Protest – Yesterday, 13 November
13:40. Stuck on a narrow curb.
13:07. New development. Head of security informed us that we had to move to the curb in which we must remain 18 inches from the street. I called the police to resolve. Three police officers came and tried to intervene with security, but security refused as walkway is technically on private property. Want to emphasize that police tried their very best to help us. We will try not to tip over on curb. Lots of interest from passerbys. Morale very high.
12:50
12:46
12:13. Above is a photo of four Brocker/Sandboxers taken by a sympathetic passerby. Note that the person holding the “Do not marry an American” sign is a guest Brocker who is a kindly non-US spouse of a US person. She strongly supports the message of the sign and wants to be known as @LauraSecord. Small group but morale is high.
11:09. Met a fellow working for a bank. He says FATCA is painful.
11:02. Tricia, Marie, NorthernStar and IRSCompliantForever just spoke to a very friendly and receptive journalist who will include mention of our protest in an article He also said that this is the first FATCA protest he is aware of. We cannot mention name of journalist. We are pointing signs at the conference room. Doors are closed now so that banksters cannot see us.
09:37. Peter is standing immediately in front of the conference meeting room. We can see them and they can see us. But we cannot enter.
07:33. Peter and I are on site. We were told us that we would be arrested if we entered building. Tried to leave CBA letters but conference organizer refused and noted that our comments on IBS about CBA were inflammatory.
***
The conference is “Canadian Institute’s 19th Annual REGULATORY COMPLIANCE for Financial Institutions” at the North Building of the Metro Convention Centre in Toronto which has been brought to our attention through the diligence of @Tricia. http://www.regulatorycomplianceforfis.com/
about being kicked off the sidewalk—Canada should be the same as anyplace. The sidewalk is an easement, owned by the individual but taken up for public usage as determined by local law/ordinance. It was usually the first 15 or 25 ft or whatever where I grew up in USA.
Imagine if the hotel were to put up a blockade on the sidewalk and prevent all people from entering. Or imagine that they put security guards at the entry exit Points of the sidewalk to the net property and decided which people were allowed to pass by and which aren’t. If you are lucky to find a lawyer or a real cop to explain to the goons, you should be able to walk back and forth on the sidewalk.
Are you loitering? What is loitering?
Mark Twain, we did carefully explain that we were not loitering—only protesting. That argument failed to convince.
@AtticusinCanada FATCA is inflammatory. As such, CBA needs to condemn itself for being inflammatory with FATCA.
Yup, there is no crime in a bunch of goons telling a bunch of reitrement planners to get the heck outa here. Can’t fight it unless you have a real lawyer and a real cop with you.
All the best to our protesters today as they present themselves as perhaps the most inflammatory hurdle for the banksters to have to navigate: the public backlash against FATCA!
What time is Mr Staples supposed to address the hurdles to FATCA compliance? Maybe if the participants can’t see you they will at least hear you…how about some “STOP FATCA NOW” chants at about that time?
Go Brock ninja HURDLES!
Bubblebustin, the Staples FATCA talk begins at 1:30–so we want to chat with as many FIsters as possible before and after this talk.
But we also want to engage the Office of the Ontario Privacy Commissioner who will be giving a talk immediately after the FATCA lecture entitled “Implementing Strong Privacy Compliance Practices….”
We assume that positioning a privacy lecture immediately following the FATCA talk, aimed at taking away our privacy rights, must have been intentional.
Best of luck today. I wish I was there – my voice carries. That is if you see the merit in not only being seen, but also being HEARD!
All the best to all of you today. Wish I were there with you. It is great you have each other as you talk with as many conference attendees (and others) as possible. They, too, are Canadians who should be alarmed at the our country’s loss of sovereignty and financial privacy rights to a foreign entity, even if they are our big US neighbours.
@Calgary411
You raise a good point: are theses people from the bank Canadians first, or minions of the USA? I suppose an IGA will make it more palatable for them, so they’re willing throw a few USP’s and their families under the bus for the good of “all” other of customers. Speaking of USP’s, from what I know of these protesters, most aren’t American anymore. Why does it take a group of former Americans and immigrants to Canada to stand up against a bunch of Canadian bankers for Canadian sovereignty?
Kudos to our brave demonstrators, and good to hear that some of the conference attendees seem not to be much more sympathetic to FATCA than we are. The CBA guy on the radio yesterday didn’t pull any punches about FATCA being a bad law; no one here would disagree with that. It’s what you do about it that we’re arguing over.
It’s a shame you aren’t getting some news coverage, but the sad, pathetic reality is every news hound on the continent is riveted on City Hall waiting for yet another Rob-Ford moment of shooting his mouth off again and making Toronto the world’s laughing stock. I’ve been getting a constant stream of emails today from family in Toronto who I think are listening to the live news coverage as they work. To paraphrase a reputed US military assessment of a junior officer, Toronto voters will follow Rob Ford anywhere, if only out of morbid curiosity. The man belongs in a treatment centre, not in city hall.
BTW has anyone following up on that suggestion that someone pass on the name of the security firm at the convention centre to someone at Canadian Civil Liberties Union for a friendly telephone chat? That business about the sidewalk is suggest utter and outrageous rubbish, I’m almost tempted to suggest Rob Ford is behind it, except he probably isn’t it’s probably the wonderful people that brought G20 “security” to Toronto.
… should have proofread that last one before posting, but I think you know I meant “such utter and outrageous …” or I hope so, sorry. also followed up, not following up … gosh I hope mumble mouth isn’t rubbing off on me long distance from Ford …
Belated congrats to all of you, we’re all proud of you for getting out there and taking a stand! It sounds like you had some success in getting people to listen – to me, that’s the important part. Great work!
@Schubert: The security guard’s uniform clearly says Reilly Security. Reilly Security’s website confrms they are do security for the Metro Toronto Convention Centre.
I passed the photos on to Abby Deshman at CCLA last night, along with a report of what happened yesterday. She gave the advice to the protestors which I posted above about what to do if anything untoward happened today.
Any sign of Mr. Staples?
Sounds like that – in spite of the security overklll – you guys reached some people with the message and possibly put others on notice that they won’t be able to fool everyone for much longer.
Spread the FATCA word to my fellow yoga students after class today. Canadians all and very appalled. But this one person or a couple at a time method isn’t going to spread word fast enough. We still need someone big who has a platform to shout from.
Good work though!
Thanks to all of you for taking time out of your busy lives for this important protest. It sounds as if you have spread the word and even have some of the Canadian bankers onside for what’s right.
(I am going for a “Coffee & Chat session that my MP, Michelle Rempel, is hosting this evening.)
I would happily contribute a few hundred dollars towards a paid TV ad if others did too. Unfortunately, TV is still the way to reach the masses who don’t have enough curiosity to use the internet to look for valuable information and the truth. Would that be the next step for us? Or would the cost be too prohibitive? Do we even have enough willing anti-FATCAnites to do this sort of thing? I hate that we might have to wait until after FATCA is implemented in order for victims to begin emerging thus making it possible for a lawsuit to be brought against the Canadian government. I’d like to see FATCA rejected by Canada right now so that victims aren’t created in the first place.
@Em
I’m not a lawyer but that is why I recommend that a lawsuit against the banksters begin immediately. The banksters are already discriminating against US persons–including Canadian citizens who happen to be US persons–who live in Canada.
Here’s a link you might want to have a Canadian lawyer look at. Sadly, the banksters at CIBC do not even allow US persons to click on this link:
https://www.cibc.com/ca/pdf/investor/prospectus-july5-2013.pdf
But I don’t see why legal action needs to wait for FATCA to be implemented. The banksters’ illegal actions have started already.
Thank you everyone who came out in protest against FATCA these past two days and for the organizing that went into making it happen. I hope that you found some encouragement in what you’ve done in spite of some of the conference attendees who said that FATCA’s a done deal. I guess you know who’s a banker first and a Canadian second. Congratulations to you all for having the courage and guts to stand up for Canada when others won’t.
@Em
Today is my day for feeling discouraged. People here don’t seem to grasp what’s at stake, not only for USP’s but for all Canadians. For those of us who are worried, the Canadian government is leaving us in what feels like a dark room with a guillotine overhead.
The US is all wrapped up in fighting terrorism but doesn’t seem to care that Americans living outside the US may soon be wiped off the face of the earth by their own government. Does anyone give a damn?
@ bubblebustin
I have no idea why yesterday, of all days, my spirits were down. Maybe it was reading how our brave Brockers and our adopted Brocker (@LauraSecord) were literally kicked to the curb. It made me flashback to the G8/G20 and the horror of seeing my fellow Canadians treated so badly. It was not expected. And yet our Team Terrific stood tall and got our message out as best they could. That should have brought my spirits up … and to a point it did. I feel now we have to go beyond making a few contacts and find a way to reach millions at a time. I wish I had the answer as to how this could be accomplished. I feel the FATCA clock going tick-tock and it makes me anxious. The good news is that spirits do go up after a downturn. I’m sure ours will too. At least we give a damn and we’re doing something. Some even have the talents and the spunk to go way beyond just doing something to really doing a lot. I’m so grateful for that.
@Em, all
Yesterday sure was a mixed bag, from seeming to gain some ground with the media by being featured on the Current to getting kicked to the curb and treated like an annoyance. I was hoping something would spin big out of the Current’s coverage, but only deafening silence so far.
How do we go big? Is it time to do US consulates as we’ve bantered about before? I would like to have a discussion about this. Would it get us the kind of attention to make the difference we need right now?
@Dash: I remain in contact with a prominent constitutional lawyer and Canadian Civil Liberties Association. They both have advised that until banks take some action (i.e. demand birth certificates, citizenship information, threaten to close accounts,etc.), there are no grounds for a lawsuit.
They also advise we will only have grounds for a Charter challenge if the government changes Canadian laws to allow banks and FIs to comply with FATCA.
So for now, court action is “premature.”
I know it is frustrating. I don’t think any of us thought two years ago this would still be dragging on while we remain in limbo.
@Blaze
Again, I’m not a lawyer. But it seems pretty obvious that they ARE already demanding citizenship info. See, for example, the following application for a standard account with ScotiaMcLeod:
http://www.scotiabank.com/images/en/filespersonal/KYC_8209904_eng_0211_locked_uneditable.pdf
Note, in particular, the following verbiage on page 2:
“A U.S. person (U.S. citizen or U.S. dual citizen) must provide SSN and complete…”
Note that they specifically mention dual citizens–therefore they are demanding US citizenship info even from their clients who also happen to be Canadian citizens.
I’m glad to hear that you are in contact with a constitutional lawyer. I, unfortunately, am not. I have great respect for fine legal minds when it comes to the analysis of the finer points of the law. But there are times when lawyers say things that, quite frankly, defy common sense. And in such cases, I go with what common sense tells me, not what the lawyers say.
If a lawyer were to look at this document and claim that the banks aren’t ALREADY demanding US citizenship information–to me, with all due respect for their high standing, that completely defies common sense.
I am so proud of all of you. As professor Allison Christians said in her speech, “movements start small”. I am a frequent follower of the site, a bit scared to go public, but if any protests happen in Montreal you have at least two people (me and my spouse) ready to help out. Good for you guys!