photo from yesterday, day 1 of protest
PROTEST EVENING POSTMORTEM:
I know that this small protest did reach the FIsters attending the conference and put them on notice–because most refused to look us in the eye.
This protest happened because of the dedication of on-site protesters including Atticus, Marie, Northernstar, Peter, Tricia, and WhiteKat, those (including Blaze and James Jatras) who helped in preparation of the letter to the Canadian Bankers Association that was critical to the protest, and because of the others I am not certain that I can mention.
Amazing people, all.
On-site coverage from IRSCompliantForever :
15.54. A last goodbye from all of us to the banksters.
15:03. Banker from small bank who hates FATCA just signed petition.
14:24. AttIcus just explained FATCA to passerby. Response was “Well, the banks need a little (words deleted).”
14:14. Banksters we meet all express sympathy but insist that there is no way to prevent FATCA. So many passerbys wondering about this FATCA word.
13:18. Fellow from one of the major banks visited with us had a friendly chat and accepted the CBA letter. He asked that we not disclose the name of his bank. Banksters are also taking pictures of us.
12.55. Another passerby came up to us expressing concern that her daughter has a Green Card.
Reports and photos of earlier today and yesterday after the jump
12:53. A passerby just came up to us expressing concern that she was born to a US parent and asked whether FATCA applied. Atticus explained and the woman thanked us for being here.
11:23. Unexpectedly another protester arrived with signs. Someone we all know.
11:13. Police have arrived again.
10:51. Nice sunny day. One bankster inside gave us the thumbs up. We had a nice chat with two reps of a major FI who accepted the CBA letter.
***
Day 1 of Protest – Yesterday, 13 November
13:40. Stuck on a narrow curb.
13:07. New development. Head of security informed us that we had to move to the curb in which we must remain 18 inches from the street. I called the police to resolve. Three police officers came and tried to intervene with security, but security refused as walkway is technically on private property. Want to emphasize that police tried their very best to help us. We will try not to tip over on curb. Lots of interest from passerbys. Morale very high.
12:50
12:46
12:13. Above is a photo of four Brocker/Sandboxers taken by a sympathetic passerby. Note that the person holding the “Do not marry an American” sign is a guest Brocker who is a kindly non-US spouse of a US person. She strongly supports the message of the sign and wants to be known as @LauraSecord. Small group but morale is high.
11:09. Met a fellow working for a bank. He says FATCA is painful.
11:02. Tricia, Marie, NorthernStar and IRSCompliantForever just spoke to a very friendly and receptive journalist who will include mention of our protest in an article He also said that this is the first FATCA protest he is aware of. We cannot mention name of journalist. We are pointing signs at the conference room. Doors are closed now so that banksters cannot see us.
09:37. Peter is standing immediately in front of the conference meeting room. We can see them and they can see us. But we cannot enter.
07:33. Peter and I are on site. We were told us that we would be arrested if we entered building. Tried to leave CBA letters but conference organizer refused and noted that our comments on IBS about CBA were inflammatory.
***
The conference is “Canadian Institute’s 19th Annual REGULATORY COMPLIANCE for Financial Institutions” at the North Building of the Metro Convention Centre in Toronto which has been brought to our attention through the diligence of @Tricia. http://www.regulatorycomplianceforfis.com/
Yes, where are they? I’m concerned as well.
Me too. I e-mailed one of them about a half hour ago and another a bit later, no reply as yet.
I tweeted Tricia just now.
Calgary can you put more into an RRSP and have him as beneficiary. You can put money in non registered accounts for him. You do not get the tax advantage
Calgary what exact US indices does he have(do not answer if it breaks security). If he does not have a current US indices he should be able to have $50.000 to 1 million. If he has no current indices in last 5 year there is no limit. Various credit union, Alberta Treasury banks only ask for provincial photo ID. I believe there is an equivalent ID for people who do not have driver license
95% of dual citizen would not even be effected with these rules. There is 100 times more Canadian that would be pissed off if they had to pay the 30% withholding tax. They actually pay the 30% withholding tax on dividend, but they would be hit with the 30% on transactions. If the EU stood up to Obama, it may have died. It may take them another year or two but Obama gets what he wants. Those Canadian could say listen the Canadian government will not collect various USA taxes on duals and you still are not happy.
Obama even bullies the US banks to give loan to high risk people and you would think they have some power to stop him. The Republican folded, which is really bad if you considered that FACTA’s IGA were not negotiated during shut down.
Also tell your other children that should anything happen to your spouse and you, that they should look into Supplemental Security Income. If he has no significant income it will help him.
@Harry @calgary411
I would doubt if calgary’s son would have any U.S. indicia at all. Calgary’s son was born in Canada, has lived all his life in Canada, and I don’t think (correct me if I’m wrong) he has any formal connection to the US–only Canadian ID.
Of course it would be safer if calgary’s son could renounce/relinquish.
Hope all at the protest are well! Thanks for your efforts today!!
Harry,
All I can give you is the last correspondence I had with my Canadian government representatives on behalf of my son, born in Canada to me (his US born mother who lived there from 1943 to 1969), never registered with the US, never lived in the US, never had any benefit from the US — and ALL OTHERS LIKE HIM. The Washington, DC immigration/nationality lawyer that I hired regarding my son’s status confirms that he was a US citizen from the moment he was born to me — in Canada.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/19/the-term-aggregate-in-irs-speak-is-a-fraud-perpetuated-on-us-persons/comment-page-2/#comment-634352
Other than not being able to put anything more into my RRSP as I am 70 years old and retired (and almost ready for it to be rolled into an RRIF), I do not want a work-around for my son or for any other like him and his/her family. His RDSP, for which am the HOLDER, is just under $50,000. I should NOT have to close that Canadian registered account that is for his future benefit because there is some vague ‘US indicia’. I just should not have to do that — he and any other like him should have the same benefits as ANY OTHER Canadian citizen. I realize that Canada says they will not collect US tax — he would never owe US tax. It is the year-after-year-ater-year administration of compliance costs, not a penny of which should come out of any of his Canadian or Alberta disability benefits — nor from my slim estate left to my kids when I am no longer here to look after this (as ineptly as I seem to be able to do). I do not want to register him with the US and I do not want to collect US Supplemental Security Income for him. For me, I guess it is ultimately the principle of this whole absurdity of this, especially the fact that the US Department of State indicates there is not way that he can renounce and there is no way that a Parent, a Guardian or a Trustee can renounce on his (or any other like person’s) behalf. It is WRONG!
Now almost over seven hours with no word or update from our protestors. Guys, if you’re reading this or getting our e-mails, please let us know you’re OK.
I’ve been in touch with Canadian Civil Liberties Association and gave them the details about what happened up until 1:40 this afternoon. I have now let CCLA know we haven’t heard from you in over six hours.
CCLA has advised if anything untoward happens tomorrow, get as much information as you can (exactly what was said, name of person, organization, ID number, etc.).
The following is not advice from Abby, but from me. I would suggest you video or record anything that is said. If they tell you that you can’t do that, find out why and make a record of that.
This is Canada?!? This is how we treat people exercising their legal right to protest?!?
Way to go Canadian Institute, Canadian Bankers Association and Metro Toronto Convention Centre. I am no longer surprised that CBA and CI think Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a mere “hurdle” to be “navigated” in the race for Team USA. CBA’ prize–racing around the Canadian track wrapped in the American flag.
If they consider that “inflammatory,” that’s too bad. They are “inflammatory” with their cavalier attitude about what this is doing to honest, law-abiding Canadian citizens and residents.
I left the protest at 1:30 this afternoon to pick up my children. I know that the remaining Brockers were planning to have dinner together after the compliance seminar ended.
Good news! Heard from Atticus and IRSCompliantForever. Everybody is fine.
Yay!! and thanks, Pacifica, Atticus and IRSCompliantForever!! What a day you had.
Maybe somebody has already posted this site but FATCA was on CBC this morning, and my Canadian wife was livid! I am sure this happened because of the bankers meeting in Toronto today tomorrrow.
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/11/13/fatca-under-fire-from-tax-experts-canadian-citizens/
Thanks, kermitzii. Here it is a Brock post and comments: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/11/12/hear-how-fatca-impacts-ordinary-canadians-on-cbc-radio-1/.
Calgary is there any way that you can downsize house and pick up a revenue rental property, Have him as beneficiary, with his most trusted sibling as executor. This will allow him to receive a monthly income without a great amount in a Financial institution. Even though 90% of condo boards are incompetent it would be best that the rental property to be a condo. Easier to monitor.
Blaze is on CBC (Ruth Freeborn). I think that is blaze.
AtticusInCanada I think was interviewed on CBC, not Blaze as I know Atticus renounced in September like me.
Blaze is Lynne Swanson — the author of many recent published media articles and the administrator of Maple Sandbox. Ruth is another great commenter here at Brock and Maple Sandbox!
Thanks, Harry. I will certainly look at other options for my son’s welfare when I know for sure if and how our Canadian government is going to deal with the US FOR ALL OF us, Canada’s citizens and residents (whether they have a US indicia or not). None of us should have to go to extraordinary lengths to jump through hoops for US FATCA law — my family is Canadian!
Spoke to Atticus and got e-mail from Stephen. They are all safe. They had a nice dinner together while we were worrying.
Protestors, remember, Abby Deshman at CCLA is aware of the situation. Be sure to read her advice.
Tomorrow’s another day. Sleep well everyone.
Calgary I think you should act act as if FACTA IGA will be passed and try and eliminate the problem as soon as possible. The Credit union says that the FACTA rules will only start sometime next year. I think it more credible than what somebody was saying that ING was going to report 2013. The banks can not release the info until IGA signed.
Calgary also eliminate any Electronic transfer agreement from one financial institute to another. If one shows up it has to report on the others.
Real estate prices are high in Calgary. If you have a decent size house you may want to buy 2 condo one for you to live in the second, as a revenue property to pay your and your son living expenses. Expect to get 4% cash flow rate of return on revenue property which is similar to what you will get from good Canadian dividend stocks,
Sorry Blaze, I’m re posting this here to encourage more to do something similar:
I just sent the following to my Federal Conservative MP, Scott Reid (Lanark Frontenac Lennox and Addington (Ontario).
“Dear Scott:
Further to my very recent email (about 20 minutes ago) I’d like to ask you if the Canadian Government is ready to provde to me an alternative financial institution as I’ll be needing one. First and foremost, when the witch hunt begins, looking for “US persons” I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT agree to signing the 2 forms the banks will be asking me to do…..one being that I fill out an American taxpayer Identification form, and the second being a waiver of my initial agreement with my financial institution of confidentiality about my account info. I CANNOT ACCEPT that if I refuse this, my RRSP will have been deemed “cashed out” and have me face a full Canadian tax penalty of having done so. Therefore, if your government does sign an agreement with the bully, it is incumbent upon you to offer me an alternative to these chartered banks, so that I’ll have a safe harbour from the USA’s infringement on our sovereignty.
Thanks in advance”
I hope they listen. Everyone else….especially those with a better command of the language than me, please do the same!!
I appreciate you trying to help me, Harry. But, the US and their FATCA is not going to force me out of the home and neighbourhood I’ve been in since 1991. I’m just not into work-around’s at this point. I’m hoping that Canada will stand up for all of its citizens and residents, no matter what their origins.
James Jatras’ latest contribution to Op Ed News:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Canadians-Confront-the-Ban-by-James-Jatras-Bankers_Canadian-Govt-Politics_Freedoms_Letters-131113-84.html
Since this meeting is in Toronto, I have to post this. Ford has a prostitute?
rob-ford-drugs-prostitution_n_4269661
Harry. I guess you are trying to be helpful but your advice to Calgary 411 is not necessary. She has done what needed to be done.
@KalC
For those who might be in a similar situation to Calgary and her son, I would recommend that the “second generation” NOT make any claims whatsoever to US citizenship. That is, say someone is born in Canada to a parent who was born in the USA. The second generation has never been registered as a US citizen, and has always lived in Canada with solely Canadian ID. Such a person should–IMHO–present themselves solely as a Canadian citizen in all situations. Although they may technically have a claim to US citizenship, they should avoid ever exercising that claim as it will cause far more problems than it solves.