photo from yesterday, day 1 of protest
PROTEST EVENING POSTMORTEM:
I know that this small protest did reach the FIsters attending the conference and put them on notice–because most refused to look us in the eye.
This protest happened because of the dedication of on-site protesters including Atticus, Marie, Northernstar, Peter, Tricia, and WhiteKat, those (including Blaze and James Jatras) who helped in preparation of the letter to the Canadian Bankers Association that was critical to the protest, and because of the others I am not certain that I can mention.
Amazing people, all.
On-site coverage from IRSCompliantForever :
15.54. A last goodbye from all of us to the banksters.
15:03. Banker from small bank who hates FATCA just signed petition.
14:24. AttIcus just explained FATCA to passerby. Response was “Well, the banks need a little (words deleted).”
14:14. Banksters we meet all express sympathy but insist that there is no way to prevent FATCA. So many passerbys wondering about this FATCA word.
13:18. Fellow from one of the major banks visited with us had a friendly chat and accepted the CBA letter. He asked that we not disclose the name of his bank. Banksters are also taking pictures of us.
12.55. Another passerby came up to us expressing concern that her daughter has a Green Card.
Reports and photos of earlier today and yesterday after the jump
12:53. A passerby just came up to us expressing concern that she was born to a US parent and asked whether FATCA applied. Atticus explained and the woman thanked us for being here.
11:23. Unexpectedly another protester arrived with signs. Someone we all know.
11:13. Police have arrived again.
10:51. Nice sunny day. One bankster inside gave us the thumbs up. We had a nice chat with two reps of a major FI who accepted the CBA letter.
***
Day 1 of Protest – Yesterday, 13 November
13:40. Stuck on a narrow curb.
13:07. New development. Head of security informed us that we had to move to the curb in which we must remain 18 inches from the street. I called the police to resolve. Three police officers came and tried to intervene with security, but security refused as walkway is technically on private property. Want to emphasize that police tried their very best to help us. We will try not to tip over on curb. Lots of interest from passerbys. Morale very high.
12:50
12:46
12:13. Above is a photo of four Brocker/Sandboxers taken by a sympathetic passerby. Note that the person holding the “Do not marry an American” sign is a guest Brocker who is a kindly non-US spouse of a US person. She strongly supports the message of the sign and wants to be known as @LauraSecord. Small group but morale is high.
11:09. Met a fellow working for a bank. He says FATCA is painful.
11:02. Tricia, Marie, NorthernStar and IRSCompliantForever just spoke to a very friendly and receptive journalist who will include mention of our protest in an article He also said that this is the first FATCA protest he is aware of. We cannot mention name of journalist. We are pointing signs at the conference room. Doors are closed now so that banksters cannot see us.
09:37. Peter is standing immediately in front of the conference meeting room. We can see them and they can see us. But we cannot enter.
07:33. Peter and I are on site. We were told us that we would be arrested if we entered building. Tried to leave CBA letters but conference organizer refused and noted that our comments on IBS about CBA were inflammatory.
***
The conference is “Canadian Institute’s 19th Annual REGULATORY COMPLIANCE for Financial Institutions” at the North Building of the Metro Convention Centre in Toronto which has been brought to our attention through the diligence of @Tricia. http://www.regulatorycomplianceforfis.com/
Bubblebustin, the provincial finance ministers are going to the Meech meeting.
I just called the friendly local office of the Ontario Minister of Finance asking that a message be passed on to the Minister for the Monday Meech meeting: I asked that the Ontario Minister ask Flaherty for an update on the IGA negotiations and for confirmation that the proposed IGA will not diminish Ontario’s ability to regulate credit unions.
A better message could be suggested, but if this makes sense, the provincial ministers could be contacted and asked to confront Flaherty with FATCA questions.
“In B.C., financial institutions, including credit unions, are regulated by the Financial Institutions Commission. The Commission is responsible to the provincial Minister of Finance.
In Ontario, credit unions are regulated through a comprehensive framework that involves the provincial Ministry of Finance, the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO) and the DICO.”
@IRSCompliantForever
You reminded me that the last time they were due to meet I sent a letter to BC’s Finance Minister, Mike De Jong. I believe Calgary411 contacted Alberta’s also. I never received a response, but I believe Calgary did. Worth a try again. Best get a letter in before the weekend.
Previous Alberta comments (and I fowarded to you my email and response from Doug Horner for Alison Redford to correspondence to my Alberta government representatives: blah, blah):
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/12/16/fatca-fact-finding-forum-report-part-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-115822
Tim
Submitted on 2012/07/26 at 10:40 pm
*Your provincial MLA(who seems more responsive) can play a role too by letting Alison Redford, Doug Horner and co. that he or she will refuse to change the Alberta Privacy Act which governs non bank financial institutions in Alberta.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/09/30/korean-americans-withdraw-funds-from-south-korean-banks-for-fear-of-fatca-fbar-penalties/comment-page-1/#comment-62216
Shuffle of Alberta government five days ago: Doug Horner continues as Finance minister and president of Treasury Board.
Another issue that this meeting of the provincial finance ministers may be working on, and one where our fate as taxpayers and citizens is linked with that of FATCA is regarding the federal creation of and the provincial acceptance of PRPPs http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/Eng/forConsumers/lifeEvents/planningRetirement/Pages/PooledRe-Reacuteg.aspx by the provinces http://www.cucentral.ca/Connections/PPRB%20April%2025%20Final.pdf . PRPPs were created at a time when the Finance Minister knew full well that they too would be deemed taxable “foreign trusts” by the US, the same as all our other Canadian registered savings options . Banks, the IIAC and their ilk are in favour of PRPPs because they represent yet another product they can sell to clients, and charge lucrative fees for administering – while locking in planholder assets until retirement years. Other groups representing workers and seniors favour CPP enhancement instead http://www.canadianlabour.ca/national/news/now-time-expand-cpp-new-clc-research-shows-enhancements-affordable http://www.carp.ca/2012/12/13/carp-poll-urgent-need-to-enhance-cpp-and-improve-prpps/ . There are a range of voices favouring enhancements of CPP vs. mandatory workplace PRPPs http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/cpp-expansion-imperative-wynne-says-in-pension-push-at-ontario-legislature/article15888161/ http://www.carp.ca/2012/12/05/open-letter-to-finance-ministers/http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/12/12/why-we-need-to-go-big-on-cpp/
If provinces make PRPPs mandatory, then they represent yet another savings option made toxic and untouchable – a big US taxable and reportable foreign trust problem for > 1 million deemed by the US to be ‘US taxable persons’. If provinces and workplaces make enrollment mandatory and automatic, that instantly creates a 3520 and 3520A jeopardy and burden for anyone with a US reporting obligation because PRPPs would be considered ‘foreign trusts’, just like our RRSPs, RESPs, RDSPs and TFSAs. The RRSP is only exempted from US tax if the correct annual reporting is done without fail and a treaty election made http://www.serbinski.com/working-in-usa/rrsp.shtml .
PRPPs are likely to be one of the topics addressed in talks between provincial finance ministers and the federal Department of Finance.
Re Meech Lake Provincial Finance Ministers Meeting with Flaherty,
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cpp-reform-divides-jim-flaherty-and-finance-ministers-1.2463715
The US and FATCA is intruding into the most intimate of our social and fiscal policies in Canada – the fate and security of seniors and their families. If Flaherty and the Harper government favour PRPPs over enhancement of CPP, then they are urging us towards a vehicle that they know very well will also be considered by the US to be a ‘US (double)taxable – foreign trust’ (just like TFSAs, RDSPs and RESPs – and as are RRSPs and RRIFs – except for annual 8891 filings re the treaty election for the registered retirement plans). Thus PRPPs would also result in another significant instance of the US penalizing those Canadian taxpayers, citizens and residents who the US also claims the right to tax and double tax – and which the current US-Canada Tax treaty does NOT protect.
So, will Alberta (where PRPPs are apparently favoured over increasing CPP) and Flaherty and Harperites choose to implement a social policy that will fail in its aims because Canada hasn’t said NO! to the US on FATCA and US extraterritorial taxation?
CPP is the best path http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/a-bigger-cpp-is-the-best-bet-to-make-retirement-savings-sufficient/article15810356/
to securing the wellbeing of seniors in Canada because it cannot be double taxed by the US, and is not subject to FATCA.
I wonder also whether this issue about PRPPs might contribute to FATCA being opposed by Quebec – based on taxation as a sovereignty issue for them, AND in light of the manner in which US extraterritorial demands for FATCA and FBAR reporting intrude on Quebec if they aim to make PRPP enrollment automatic and mandatory in private workplaces.
Quebec is important to the Harper government;
“…There have been rumours of a new Conservative charm offensive to win back ground in Quebec in the 2015 election. If they are serious about that, Stephen Harper and his team have their work cut out for them. Negative opinions outranked positive ones in the case of every single Conservative on the list — starting with Harper whose disapproval rating stands at 67 per cent — the highest ever for a prime minister in Quebec.”…
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/12/09/trudeau_hasnt_seized_laytons_quebec_legacy_hbert.html
The Harper government will have to explain to Quebec that the federal government has or intends to sign away not only the rights of ALL Canadians under a FATCA IGA with the US, but ignore Quebec’s special relationship re taxation matters.
Finance ministers from around the country met Monday at Meech Lake. CPP reform divides Jim Flaherty and provincial finance ministers.
Will PRPPs be “foreign trusts” for US Persons in Canada? Note: They would not be mandatory. Does that cover off not discriminating against US Persons who will likely not be able to benefit from this new product?
@calgary, there has been a movement towards making the PRPPs mandatory in private workplaces, with automatic enrollment. As soon as a USP is enrolled in a ‘foreign trust’, that creates the automatic 3520 and 3520A jeopardy and reporting obligation. And PRPPs are beloved of the banks and their friends because of high administration fees to be had. And once enrolled, how to disenroll? Would they be portable? At least one bank is charging a pretty steep fee to transfer RRSPs to another institution.
I want enhancement of the CPP – good safe return, administered by goverment, pooled with all other fellow taxpayers, and best of all – completely safe from US meddling and IRS and Treasury claims that might turn PRPPs toxic sinkholes with incredible accounting and penalty fees attached as ‘foreign taxable trusts’.
@Badger
In my opinion I think CPP enhancement is better for all Canadians The PRPPs seem to be a money scheme for Banks and Bay street.
Dated but interesting POVs. http://mfl.ca/think-tank-says-harper-pension-scheme-wont-help-could-make-things-worse
RRSP, TFSA, PRPP unless exempted in a Canadian IGA with the US would have adverse US tax and reporting implications.
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