IRSCompliantForever brings to our attention another compliance industry learning opportunity — and an opportunity to protest FATCA.
Will there also be a few “No to Canadian banks imposing FATCA” signs for a Toronto mini-protest on November 13 and 14 outside the Metro Convention Centre?
At the the “Canadian Institute’s 19th Annual REGULATORY COMPLIANCE for Financial Institutions,”
Attendees will:
“Hear from ALL 5 Big Banks in Canada and more!
Hear from CIBC, TD Bank, Scotiabank, AMEX Bank of Canada, RBC Law Group, BMO Financial Group, HSBC Financial Canada, Manulife Financial, ATB Financial, Travelers and JPMorgan Chase Bank” WHO ALL AIM TO HELP THE US IMPOSE FATCA ON CANADIANS.
The banks will teach attendees at the conference how to: “[Navigate] the hurdles preventing [Canadian FIs] from achieving compliance with FATCA.”
John Staples (Nov 14) will provide a lecture on “Preparing to Implement the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)” which will include …”an update on your most pressing FATCA questions and understand how Canadian FIs will perform and achieve compliance with the final regulations.” and even “Evaluating the consequences of opting out of the compliance agreement.”
The Privacy Commissioner of Ontario will also be there.
http://regulatorycomplianceforfis.com/
Stand by… There is a letter in edit right now to the CBA President Campbell basically telling him and their banks to grow a pair and say NO to FATCA in any form. It will get posted here, and maybe someone can hand out to all the delegates! 🙂
I explained FATCA to a personal banker at my local branch…of course, none of the branch staff have heard of this yet…he agrees that I am getting jacked by this FATCA crap.
@ who can attend and how much? Brock must be represented. And there should be a picket/protest.
Oh my! The bank protest is going to be so much fun! Wanna bet they will know ahead of time that we are coming?
Just confirmed with friendly Toronto Police that there will be no problem in protesting outside the North Building of the Toronto Metro Convention Centre–where the conference will be held.
I also sent in a Notice of Demonstration form to the police, as police prefer to have this a few weeks in advance. No requirement to provide name of organization.
“FATCA-complicit banks” could be a theme of this protest.
I like Just Me’s suggestion that one approach could be handing out a “shame on you banks” repeal-FATCA letter sent to the Canadian Banking Association, which could be provided to bankster attendees who would then be asked to sign the letter in support–but lots of ideas needed.
Anyone in Toronto who can attend for even a part of a day?
@all
I am coming. I know Toronto and have friends there. It would be great to have a meetup the night before or for breakfast that day.
Imam so excited. At least I feel like I am doing somthing productive. I wonder if some other groups like the green party, NDP and Liberal party would join us?
One possible way to promote the protest would be through comments on various news items, starting about a week before the protest, Lacking articles directly about FATCA, comments could be made on a diverse number of articles, possibly related to the financial sector or the economy.
A remark about FATCA and the protest may not be entirely relevant to the subject of the article but, if nothing else, the comments may be noticed by reporters whose interest could be stirred.
The event advertises that it will help the participants to: “[Navigate] the hurdles preventing [Canadian FIs] from achieving compliance with FATCA.”
Will they hold a session to advise the Banksters on how to discriminate against Canadian citizens and resident account holders, how to navigate the hurdles posed by IBS readers and other FATCArefuseniks and how to defeat/defenestrate the privacy laws and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and our Constitution?
Will the Banksters advise on ‘best practices’ subverting even any bare semblance of a democratic process – by lobbying, backroom updates and meeting with the Finance Department, and using their influence to deliberately bypass the entire Canadian public, voters, accountholders, citizens and legal residents?
@Hazy
good idea…to put in comments referring to FATCA before the protest.
I just wrote the Editor of rabble.ca to start to focus on FATCA ..like the protest for tomorrow in Calgary, and the coming ones in November.
@Badger,
Just think of all the slogans we can make directed towards the banks! We need lots of people to protest so we can have lots of signs.
@White Kat
will signs be allowed?
I don’t see why not. As long as we are not on private property I think we can carry whatever signs we want.
Signs will be ok—But Toronto police did ask specifically on the “notice of demonstration” form whether horses, other animals, or musical bands would be involved.
WhiteKat, my dilemma is trying to restrain my language – when I think of how the Canadian Banksters have deliberately subverted any consultation or notice to their fellow Canadian citizens, accountholders, voters and residents – whether ‘US taxable persons’ or not, we’ll all pay extra Canadian taxes and banking fees to pay for FATCA in Canada, or those who’ll have their privacy and other rights abridged, or suffer banking discrimination, and have their Canadian family assets reported to the IRS.
All so that the banks and their investment arm friends and allies can make more record profits – pay their lobbyists, and continue their direct access to the ear of our faux democratic government behind our backs – busy rejigging things to suit their interests – at the expense of the rest of society.
They could have chosen to make the Canadian public their allies in fighting against FATCA, but instead, they are choosing to help the US prey on us. Will there be enough meat left on the bones of our assets to feed both the CBAnksters and the US Treasury after FATCA eats into our RESPs, TFSAs, and other registered accounts?
They’re also busy lobbying and rubbing their hands and drooling over the potential for the provinces to mandate participation in private workplace PRPPs – which for all those deemed ‘US taxable persons’ in Canada are toxic – defined and taxed by the US as ‘taxable foreign trusts’ just like all the rest of our Canadian registered accounts. Signing up tens of thousands to the 3520 and 3520-A jeopardy, and the FBAR ‘n FATCA fundraiser. Particularly if participation in workplace PRPPs are made mandatory and automatic. The PRPP is touted as a ‘solution’ for the problem of the majority of Canadians without any workplace pension. But, as soon as one of us is signed up to a PRPP by our employer, we’ve got an automatic ‘foreign trust’ jeopardy. Opting out – if even possible – would come too late – because the US jeopardy would be created as soon as we were made to participate.
Far far better to get an enhanced CPP – which the US cannot treat like the registered savings. Also not reportable on FBAR and FATCA in advance of actual distributions to a bank account. No danger of the ‘foreign trust’ US tax and penalty fundraiser. And with enhanced CPP, the Banksters and friends cannot leech off us via extortionate handling and administration fees as they would in a PRPP.
The Finance Department, Flaherty and Harper know very very well that the PRPPs will be of no use to over one million of us born with the accident of US birthplace or parentage. Between the inevitable high administration fees (that the banksters and their siblings are drooling over in anticipation) and the US tax accounting and reporting costs, and the US tax imposed, that would be over 1 million of us with yet another serious and involuntary ‘US compliance’ problem to solve.
Yet, we’ve heard NO acknowledgement of that problem from Finance Minister Flaherty and the Banksters. And NOTHING on the issues surrounding our RRSPs and RRIFs re the need for lifelong annual treaty elections via the 8891, nor the TFSA, RESP, and RDSP problems created by the US refusal to treat us fairly or reasonably. Isn’t it glaring that the Canada -US treaty can continue to force our RRSPs to be reported annually for an entire lifetime – from the first time we contribute to an RRSP – over decades – till retirement – and then we have to report the RRIFs? Potentially, if one started an RRSP from a first part-time job at 15-16; to actually accessing it at 65, that is 50 YEARS of a Canadian citizen and resident reporting their mutiple accumulated Canadian RRSPs on US 8891 forms.
The CBA, the IIAlC and their friends are in collusion with the US. And every day that goes by as the Finance Department and the Harper government allows the Canada-US tax treaty to stand as is, and it continues to expose our Canadian registered accounts to US extraterritorial taxation and confiscatory penalties is a sin and a crime against Canadians and against the sovereignty, autonomy and self determination of Canada as a nation.
@ Badger
That is so excellent what you just wrote.
Could it be sent to the newspapers, politicians and be put on flyers
Our MPs who have responded to us and put questions in Parliament need to see this…
What do you think?
@Badger
I don’t know if you caught this,
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/07/01/its-budget-submission-time-in-canada-again/comment-page-1/#comment-610062
@Bubblebustin’s link is a submission by the Investment Funds Institute of Canada that includes a general complaint about the growing trend for “extraterritorial tax rules” and specifically about US PFIC legislation which makes it impossible for us to hold a Canadian (or non-US) mutual fund.
What is really disappointing is that Canada Finance (and UK Finance, France Finance, Swiss Finance etc.) should have resolved this and other problems with US long ago—as pointed out by @Badger—as part of the tax treaties.
Canada Finance and the rest need to be taught how to complain to the US. Shame on them all.
@bubblebustin, I hadn’t seen that, thanks.
@northernstar, any of that can be used if useful. I have put some versions of similar comments in my communications with MPs. Problem is to shrink it all down to bitesize. Always a challenge for me.
@badger
I rather enjoy how you present your ideas and thoughts the way you do. You give your words breathing room, whereas my desire to present things as concisely as I can often suffocates them!
What a lot of you people do not realize, is that far more Canadians will be disadvantaged if they can not buy and sell US equities. I only buy Canadian stock because I want Canadian dividends and at lower income level, the double taxation effect is reduced. It does cause non-diversification problems, but I think Canadian companies are more honest about profits. If a companies has a lot of deferred taxes. It does not mean it owes the CRA money. It mean that it uses a different accounting method then the CRA to make their profit look bigger, If you have less than $50 k in your account they will not look at you. If you have between 50 K and 1 million if you do not have a current US indices they will ignore you, If have more than 1 million they will look at a 5 year record for US indices, A good portion of snowbird will be getting letter as a high percentage have more than 1 million in account they own US$ stuff and they will have USA address when they are gone, A lot of them have not done the US closer connection filling which includes a FACTA filling and some of these may rent out their Canadian house when they are away. They also cross the border. It would be smart, if you tried and allied with them.
Stick to Canadian equities and bonds. Canadian index funds and ETF generally outperform manged funds. Please note Canadian TSE index is heavily dependent on Banks, Oil companies and mining companies so some NDPer and Greens may not want to buy it. Cross US border at your own risk. I am certain they will put together a master list of US persons.
What are the chances of PFIC’s being exempted for us if not doing so gives US investments an advantage over non-US ones? I think we’re lucky to have our RRSP’s treated as they are.
I’m in total agreement about the Canadian government being asleep at the wheel in treaty negotiations, but then maybe getting concessions from the lumbering behemoth is next to impossible without leverage.
You may also want to buy Provincial bonds and get them registered in your Name. I doubt the the distribution agent I share will have the ability to withhold money from Canadian citizen paid by Provinces. The interest rates on long bonds are low mainly because the US federal reserves is depressing the bond market to stimulate the US economy. Most US companies are sitting on a pile of cash, because they do not trust Obama.
@bubblebustin, Since the vast majority of ‘US persons’ in Canada have never considered themselves ‘US tax payers’, there hasn’t been much pressure on the Canadian government to negotiate for more favourable treatment of Canadian mutual funds, RESPs, RDSPs, TFSA’s etc. This is about to change.
I don’t think we are ‘lucky’ re: RRSP treatment. They still have to be declared on some stupid form every year in order to be exempt.
In addition you may considered investment in housing industry owning condo for rental or offering mortgages. The Canadian housing market is hot which not exactly a great time to buy and you will be lucky to make 4% on a unleveraged property. It also somewhat hard to evict a bad tenant, The prices can go down, but in the really long term it has inflation protection unlikes bonds or mortgages. You can offer private mortgages but you also are taking a risk the person may walking away and leaving you with the property at less than the mortgage amount. Mortgages rates are really low now, also due to Federal Reserve fund policy, Canadian mortgages have a little more security than US mortgage as the mortgage can be against the person, In USA mortgage are against the property, which is a one way bet. If things are good you get your money back with 3% interest if things are bad you get a property worth half of mortgage rare. Please not due to the Canadian National Energy plan and Petroleum and Gas Revenue tax there was housing bust in the 1980 and people sent back their key to house to mortgage companies.
Back then you could walk away from an Alberta mortgage than now.
@Whitekat
It was certainly not my intention to say that we should feel lucky that RRSP’s are treated as they are – I don’t feel lucky that I have few of the benefits that those living in the US have. We’re lucky that the US found the goodness in their heart to grant their exemption, after all what’s in it for them?