I just received the following email in response to my thank you to Mr. Ted Hsu, Liberal MP for asking Question 121 in the Canadian Parliament on October 25, 2013: Question 121 re FATCA, October 25, 2013:
Thank you for your email regarding FATCA. We are awaiting an answer to Mr. Hsu’s Order Paper question, which the government must provide within 45 days. I have passed your message on to Mr. Hsu, who has asked me to respond on his behalf.
Mr. Hsu has recently posted a short write up about FATCA: http://blog.tedhsu.ca/2013/10/28/looking-for-answers-on-facta/.
The government is required to answer the Order Paper question in 45 days, but we encourage you to contact the Minister of Finance at flaherty.j@parl.gc.ca to demand that the government provide a substantive response to this question. We also invite you to prepare a petition to be tabled in the House of Commons, and we provide instructions here: http://www.tedhsu.ca/services/petitions.html .***
Thank you for your engagement with this issue. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our office.
Thank you,
Beth P.Legislative Assistant
Office of Ted Hsu, M.P.
Kingston and the Islands
818 Justice Building, House of Commons
T: (613) 996-1955 │ F: (613) 996-1958
*** Is there anyone who wishes to take this on?
Liberal MP Ted Hsu: LOOKING FOR ANSWERS ON FATCA
Looking for answers on FATCA
Posted on October 28, 2013 by emily
Working with MP Irwin Cotler, the Liberal Party critic for Rights and Freedoms, I’ve submitted a written Order Paper Question (Q-121) on the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). Written Order Paper Questions are one way that MPs can ask the government detailed and technical questions, to be answered within 45 days.
When the United States adopted the FATCA in 2010, Americans living in Canada became worried. This controversial legislation requires ‘foreign’ banks to report directly to the IRS certain information about financial accounts held by ‘American’ taxpayers–even when those accounts are in local banks of lifelong Canadian citizens who happen to also have US taxpayer status under US law. The fact that the Canadian government is considering forcing Canadian banks to report directly to an American agency is worrying, but my colleagues in the Liberal Party are also concerned that implementing FATCA might infringe on Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
FATCA is a very complicated piece of legislation, and it requires other countries to be on board, so the US has been using “inter-governmental agreements” (IGAs) to further FATCA’s reach. The US Treasury department has even been developing “model” IGAs for other countries to fast-track and streamline the process of expanding FATCA’s global reach.
The Conservative government has, once again, been tight-lipped about whether they will be pursuing an IGA and what it might look like, or even if it would bring any legislation like this to Parliament for a vote. It’s only fair that Parliamentarians should be able to review legislation before the government requires Canadian banks to enforce US laws.
Another possibility is that the Harper government might implement FATCA by “reinterpreting” the existing tax treaty with the US. Again, we face the possibility that parliamentary oversight could be side-stepped in favour of quickly implementing controversial legislation.
I think we need to be wary of imposing American obligations on Canadian banks and American taxpayers living in Canada – some of whom might have obligations under FATCA but not even know the law has changed. We should also be vigilant to make sure that implementing FATCA doesn’t violate the Charter. Constitutional law scholar Peter Hogg sent a personal letter to the Department of Finance last December to say that “In [his] opinion, the procedures mandated by the Model IGA are discriminatory in a way that would not withstand Charter scrutiny.“
Having US personhood is like being stricken with an illness – your friends might express how bad they feel for you, but quietly they’re glad it’s not them.
This is how participating in a protest can be very validating. People don’t protest for the fun of it, and the public will pay attention for that reason. Many of us for months had talked about protesting, but the time had never been right until our two moms in tennis shoes made it real. The level of conviction that was defined in that moment was very powerful – for not only them, but for all us – and should be for those who might have thought we were imagining things.
@bubblebustin
Wow! I was just thinking what you wrote. I am looking forward to going to Toronto to protest and share the task and experience to stop FATCA. I feel I am actually doing something that could make a difference.
@ WhiteKat, @Northernstar,@ calgary 411, @monalisa1776,
Heartfelt thanks for posting your experiences about how friends, family and acquaintances react when you tell them about your FATCA /CBT traumas. you do learn who really is a friend-family you can’t get rid of. I get sometimes better reactions from strangers than I do from friends. I have had all of your experiences , either verbal or underlying: “you must be hiding something”, “you chose to move overseas”, “you chose expediency over loyalty”, “move on to something else already”, and (joking) “bats in the belfry”. two very dear friends are extremely angry on my behalf and they feel the USG has narrowed down their options for the future as well-one of our joint plans was to buy a little retirement flat in the US. that is now canned because the deposit money I’d set aside for that was consumed in lawyers’ and forensic’ accounting fees to come back into compliance preparatory to my renunciation and even if I manage to save up in the future I wouldn’t want to invest in a country that treats its diaspora this way
Dear Brockers, do keep up your spirits. per Atticus “Each little chip away at the block of denial in these folks makes and impact and might actually save some of them from being caught in a gigantic mess if they will get involved.” Atticus I salute you also for your Benjamin Franklin vision “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
ironic-America is lining up its natural ambassadors for the IRS Meat grinder. HIstorians may well look back and see FATCA as the straw that broke the financial camel’s back in combination with the NSA/Snowden scandal ,
when the queues to renounce start stretching into years rather than months,
when ex citizens start holding permanent pickets outside US consulates and embassies, when “foreign” MPs start raising questions in their respective Houses of government
when covered expatriots are denied entrance to look after ageing relatives/friends
I can only only hope the Florida and Texas Banker’s associations lawsuits succeed.
the saddest thing of all-I love America and I could weep to see what the USG is doing to itself. what Bush started , Obama is completing: obtaining permnant worldwide opprobrium
What was it Gaius Cornelius Tacitus said? “they made a desert and called it peace”? or even better….”Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset. ”
Strength and honour, folks!!!
@ crystal london
I read your comment and lt was inspiration for me to wake up to this morning. I find such comfort knowing I am not alone and those on Brock, like you, share my feelings, fears, and determination. We all have a common bond.. Together we have strength and honor.
Are we ready to roll? Dam right. We won’t back down, EVER!
@Crystal, I also appreciated your thoughtful words…I know that people are sympathetic but not completely. They understand that I didn’t want to be shackled to expensive accounting fees but still sense that many believe I’d been neglectful or irresponsible… that because I hadn’t had children that I should have been willing to continue paying tribute, even if it was over 10% of my income.
I feel that some feel I’ve made a cold and calculating decision. My father considers me irresponsible and has told me he no longer wants to hear about it; I’ve made my bed.
At least my mother understands and she is the most important person, apart from my husband. It all has taught me though that there comes a point where I am ultimately on my own with my problems but I suppose that that’s a painful but important lesson to learn: that I have to stand on my own feet.
Thanks for your comment, Crystal.
Monalisa, we all have to stand on our own two feet and we live and breath what we determine our values. We are not responsible for or have any control over the judgement of others, be that from family or friends or the US government or many of the “homelanders” who have no concept of what this is. Given that, we still can be grateful for those who do understand as that is some validation for us. Do they even understand that their country, the USA, has Citizenship-Based Taxation (another entitlement?) compared to the rest of the world?
In my opinion and that of most here you have done the right thing in renouncing and stopping the immoral over-reach of the US government into your life abroad. I’ve seen you become a much stronger woman before the eyes of Isaac Brock Society. You can be proud of that. Don’t carry what others think of you around with you. Move on.
For whatever it’s worth, the Finance Canada Ministerial Correspondence Unit today sent me a stock email reply to my email to Flaherty on October 28 (see my post earlier above on this thread) concerning Hsu’s questions, assuring me that my comments will brought to Flaherty’s attention as soon as possible (no doubt not until after the convention which starts about now in Calgary).
Same form email I always get from them, but at least they acknowledge receipt — unlike everyone else I email except the Greens, bless them and Elizabeth May and her staff. What’s wrong with this picture — Flaherty has a whole government bureaucracy at his disposal, the Greens are operating off a shoe string, but the NDP and the Liberals who are somewhere in-between those resourcing levels can’t even acknowledge receipt of my emails, never mind reply to them? Why do they think I would vote for them if they can’t even do that (and me a past donor and party member of the NDP).
@Monalisa
Sorry your dad is not supportive but glad to hear you mom is supportive..The only support I have in this is my Brock friends. as you have .
We must do what is the best for us. It is our choices that we learn and grow from. Sometimes there is pain but then there is joy when we have found we accomplished something.
@Calgary411
In my observations since FATCA has surfaced in my life I think Americans can not fathom anyone being different than Americans. Most have no idea what resident based taxation is or citizen based taxation. The presume all the world is like America.
Each day I am validated that I chose the right country to live most of my life in. 44 years now. I observe the American politics now as a soap opera on TV…Mind boggling and watching makes me grateful for being Canadian. I am looking forward to getting my formal CLN..I shall really feel freedom when I get it.
Thinking of you out there in Calgary and wishing I could be there with you.
@Schubert,
I got the same stock reply this morning as well. They must have sent out a bunch of them all at once.
@schubert
I did not get that stock email yet from Flaherty
But I was getting the usual acknowledgement letter that my email was received from Mulcair. but On October 29th I received a more detailed email in response to my very long last email ensuring me that the NDP is making inquiries and trying to ensure that they are being vigilant on FATCA issue and that MP Murray Rankin sent a letter to Flaherty on Sept 25th…
I think that letter has been posted on Brock already.
It is very frustrating that these politicians do not respond to us well.
At least the liberals MPs have sent in Letters with questions to be answered by Parliament. These are formal Q papers. . I don’t know if the NDP has. I did reply to Mulcair if the NDP has done the same and have not received a reply back. ….
@ Schubert
Yes, I got the same stock reply from Flaherty. It’s so stocky his staff just attach a pdf and don’t put anything into the body of the e-mail. Stark contrast indeed to replies from Elizabeth May’s office. Flaherty’s staff are probably categorizing and keeping tabs of the e-mails they receive. Then they can at least alert their boss about how many of type A, B, C stock replies they’ve sent out. One would expect more but at least it’s something. I’m hoping Mr. Flaherty is getting the drift of our complaints and concerns and that he is feeling some degree of discomfort being between that rock (that’s us) and that hard place (that’s CBA). Rock on Brockers! Keep punching Sand Boxers! (Did a little homographing/homonyming there.)
@Northern Star, I don’t want to diss my father because even he understands that it would have been burdensome to retain both citizenships; it’s just that he has been more critical and less patient. He feels that I’m whining.
@Calgary and @Northstar, I agree that this has made me a stronger character. I’ve really had to think for myself for the first time, having come from a family of sometimes overbearing personalities; I’ve had to to decisions on my own because it was a matter of survival to do so!
I realised that even though they love me, that their love is not perfect and that there came a point where I painfully became aware that they weren’t going to put themselves out; even my spouse would have quite possibly closed ranks just to protect himself. If I’d been bankrupted by fines and attorneys, I honestly believe our marriage would have been over.
@MonaLisa
Yes, my boyfriend does not want to hear my whining either.
and my son who is born in Canada. lives in UK now and won’t even have anything to do with me anymore. He won’t hear me any more about FATCA. We rarely communicate anymore.
Today I did get an email from my best friend. She wrote to her MPP and MP about FATCA. So I do have support there from her.
This has caused me much bitterness but agree I have to forgive and move forward. Human love is not perfect like God’s love. But I am learning to count my blessings…and amongst those blessings is my gratitude to all the compassion and empathy and support I’ve received here at Brock! 🙂
In many ways it seems easier to no longer go on about all this to my ‘real life friends and family because I realise there’s nothing more they’re realistically going to do about it; like cancer, it’s been a life-changing setback but life goes on.
I will have hopefully filed all my final paperwork and any refunds due by this time next year; a year goes surprisingly quickly. I will feel so relieved when I’ve finally paid off all my accounting bills too.
@Northernstar, that’s dreadful about your son being so unsupportive. I think a lot of it is that people who are pro-American find it impossible to even imagine that the US Govt could be malevolent. America is almost a religion of sorts and we’re apostates….
I forgot to mention that my spouse has been rather obtuse about the whole thing and, in spite of me transferring assets to him, he has not actually offered me any help with the accounting fees, despite having a much more secure income than me. It’s almost as though he we’re punishing me by effectively sticking his head in the sand about it;
To be fair, I am sure he would have given me some help had I directly asked, but common sense would tell me that he could have at least offered to help, but he simply didn’t and I am too proud to grumble…perhaps it was his way of getting back at me over a past romance I had during an earlier low ebb. He was annoyed that I made a disclosure but I genuinely felt frozen in the headlights….and with PFIC taxation, it really seemed that they’re also really also after genuine Expats rather than homelanders hiding money offshore…
@ monalisa
It is hard when we do not get the support we would love to have but I keep telling myself this will be pass too as have other hard times and obstacles for me. With my son, he will be 44 next week. I carried him into Canada while I was pregnant with him. He has chosen to live in the UK and also to travel to the USA on a US passport…It is his choice.
I have no other living relative here in Canada. But I try to imagine that I survived the Titantic and my family went down with the ship and I was lucky to live.
@Northernstar, in a way, I can more easily understand that your boyfriend might not be so supportive because we can come across like crazy tin hatters; they’re not going to be happy about household money going towards accounting or attorney fees, plus people can be admittedly selfish in relationships, especially over money.
But it seems odd that your remaining son has become so strained…I know you have been through the mill with your past bereavements too. Family relationships can be strained as well.
@monalisa
There is no monetary hardship for my boyfriend. I am not spending any money on accounting for taxes as I became a Canadian in 1993. I am just going now for my formal CLN backdated to 1993,
which I was told that I relinquished that year by our wonderful Brock members . I had been complying while up here since entry and the last US income tax year was for 1993. So I should be clear.
My son I think is bi-polar…or has Aspergers. He was classed as genius but could never finish anything . He is lucky to have a nice English girl as a girlfriend. He and my mother share the same traits. The end of her life she was a hoarder. We never got along. I really had to cope with the loss of my younger son and his dad with the help of my friends.
Hot off the Press (duplicate post from another thread)
Hat tip to Tim
New U.S. foreign account crackdown could hit unsuspecting Canadians: Alini
FATCA raises a lot of questions
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/blogs-and-comment/ted-hsu-and-scott-brison-have-questions-about-the-coming-u-s-foreign-account-crackdown-good-questions/
@Just Me.
I saw your other post with this link and answered. I hope this dents some Canadians noggins to realize we are all in this boat together…Do we want to be on the USS Titanic or own sovereign ship?
I guess Diane Francis wants to be on the crew of USS Titanic.
All the MPs were sent this link by me and I said I want the answers to those questions that Scott and Ted sent.
Thanks for posting. This was a treat. Happy Halloween. 🙂
Now the story is picked up by McCleans
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/10/31/think-sharing-bank-data-with-the-u-s-only-affects-canadian-americans-think-again/
Very cool. The ripples are getting stonger and bigger.
@Nothernstar, I too am hoping for an equitable solution, especially as things start to snowball. Hopefully our respective relationships will improve too as we all gradually become less fearful.
@monalisa 1776
I hope so.
I just put this on another post, the Calgary protest one.
“If you don’t step across the threshold of what you already know into the world of challenges, you never truly measure yourself.”
Muriel Hemingway