I just received the following email in response to my thank you to Mr. Ted Hsu, Liberal MP for asking Question 121 in the Canadian Parliament on October 25, 2013: Question 121 re FATCA, October 25, 2013:
Thank you for your email regarding FATCA. We are awaiting an answer to Mr. Hsu’s Order Paper question, which the government must provide within 45 days. I have passed your message on to Mr. Hsu, who has asked me to respond on his behalf.
Mr. Hsu has recently posted a short write up about FATCA: http://blog.tedhsu.ca/2013/10/28/looking-for-answers-on-facta/.
The government is required to answer the Order Paper question in 45 days, but we encourage you to contact the Minister of Finance at flaherty.j@parl.gc.ca to demand that the government provide a substantive response to this question. We also invite you to prepare a petition to be tabled in the House of Commons, and we provide instructions here: http://www.tedhsu.ca/services/petitions.html .***
Thank you for your engagement with this issue. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our office.
Thank you,
Beth P.Legislative Assistant
Office of Ted Hsu, M.P.
Kingston and the Islands
818 Justice Building, House of Commons
T: (613) 996-1955 │ F: (613) 996-1958
*** Is there anyone who wishes to take this on?
Liberal MP Ted Hsu: LOOKING FOR ANSWERS ON FATCA
Looking for answers on FATCA
Posted on October 28, 2013 by emily
Working with MP Irwin Cotler, the Liberal Party critic for Rights and Freedoms, I’ve submitted a written Order Paper Question (Q-121) on the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). Written Order Paper Questions are one way that MPs can ask the government detailed and technical questions, to be answered within 45 days.
When the United States adopted the FATCA in 2010, Americans living in Canada became worried. This controversial legislation requires ‘foreign’ banks to report directly to the IRS certain information about financial accounts held by ‘American’ taxpayers–even when those accounts are in local banks of lifelong Canadian citizens who happen to also have US taxpayer status under US law. The fact that the Canadian government is considering forcing Canadian banks to report directly to an American agency is worrying, but my colleagues in the Liberal Party are also concerned that implementing FATCA might infringe on Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
FATCA is a very complicated piece of legislation, and it requires other countries to be on board, so the US has been using “inter-governmental agreements” (IGAs) to further FATCA’s reach. The US Treasury department has even been developing “model” IGAs for other countries to fast-track and streamline the process of expanding FATCA’s global reach.
The Conservative government has, once again, been tight-lipped about whether they will be pursuing an IGA and what it might look like, or even if it would bring any legislation like this to Parliament for a vote. It’s only fair that Parliamentarians should be able to review legislation before the government requires Canadian banks to enforce US laws.
Another possibility is that the Harper government might implement FATCA by “reinterpreting” the existing tax treaty with the US. Again, we face the possibility that parliamentary oversight could be side-stepped in favour of quickly implementing controversial legislation.
I think we need to be wary of imposing American obligations on Canadian banks and American taxpayers living in Canada – some of whom might have obligations under FATCA but not even know the law has changed. We should also be vigilant to make sure that implementing FATCA doesn’t violate the Charter. Constitutional law scholar Peter Hogg sent a personal letter to the Department of Finance last December to say that “In [his] opinion, the procedures mandated by the Model IGA are discriminatory in a way that would not withstand Charter scrutiny.“
Another person from Kingston and the Islands has done one petition. I have tried to do another and can try again.
Another person from Kingston and the Islands has done one petition. I have tried to do another and can try again.
Also, I don’t think it would hurt at all to have all Brocker members to write to Flaherty and inquire as to when and if honest in depth answers are forthcoming regarding Mr. Hsu’s questions. ALL of them. Not skirting the issue. Not just saying that an agreement whereby people get harmed as little as possible is coming. That’s not enough. NO innocent Canadian should be harmed at all and no innocent Canadian should be presumed guilty and have to prove to them they are innocent. That’s not the way things should work.
@ Atticus
Thanks for offering to do the petition. I had thought of Schubert and Tim too but then perhaps it has to be someone from Mr. Hsu’s constituency? Don’t those petitions have to be signed in person, like the one from the Toronto forum? I sent Minister Flaherty an e-mail urging very specific answers to Mr. Hsu’s very specific questions.
I will gladly add to the file of correspondence they have from me:
To: Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca ; Minister James Flaherty
Cc: Michelle.Rempel@parl.gc.ca ; Prime Minister Stephen Harper
I also received the same email and then promptly contacted Jim Flaherty, as suggested.
Yes, they have to be signed in person so you have to go out and get people to sign it. That is difficult for me as I can’t walk long distances and I had trouble with it before. I will have another go though.
Thank for sending an email to Flaherty. I am very interested to see the answers. I mean real answers and in depth. Not something to shrug off this situation. If he says “We’re going to protect Canadians” I want to hear HOW this will be done in detail. FBAR’s penalties should be abatted totally for innocent Canadian families. The U.S. should work WITH Canada on this and stop trying to bully Canada into going along or nothing.
The two model IGA’s are unacceptable. If the U.S. REALLY wanted FATCA to work they’d at least go for RBT on long term expats in preferred nations. That’s not hard to do and it would solve a load of these issues with innocent families abroad. Short term expats would not be exempted.
The way this is being done is all to the bad for Canada and all to the good for the U.S. and whoever doesn’t like it seems to be told to pound sand. Canada has an opportunity and an obligation to not allow the U.S. to do this to us. Obligation to it’s citizens but, also to the rest of the world watching to see if they too will be bullied under by this issue.
FATCA is unworkable and unfair as long as the U.S. continues to insist upon making all the rules “Our way or the highway.” They even thoughtfully said other nations could change their laws to comply with this. As I have said before if the elder Trudeau were PM this wouldn’t have got passed the first whimper from the U.S. let alone have our government in secret talks.
Where is the input from the individuals affected by this. Many of whom have never even been American to begin with. FATCA is ludicrous to the point that you cannot even explain it to your fellow Canadians without having them look at you as if you are wearing a tin foil hat.
Oh no! Another omnibus is set to roll over parliament and perhaps us too? Could a FATCA IGA be hidden in the baggage compartment?
http://blog.tedhsu.ca/2013/10/25/harper-government-to-mps-first-pass-the-law-then-well-tell-you-what-it-means/
@Em.
I am very impressed with Mr. Hsu to stand up to Clements and say he can’t vote on this bill if he knows nothing about it.
I have already written Flaherty and Harper and all as soon as I read Mr. Hsu’s list of questions . I asked when they will answer the questions and in detail.
As for a petition..It would not work up here. There is very little interest up here, even with American persons themselves.. One said she would pray..
I feel like an Alien from Mars. More and more ….
I have not turned to drink or drugs…LOL but I sometimes regret coming up to the north.
I also received an email from Ted Hsu’s office today.
PLEASE, everyone write to Flaherty and ask that he answer Hsu’s questions not only thoroughly but PROMPTLY. December 13 is his deadline; if there is going to be a Canada-US IGA at all, I strongly suspect it will be announced before then. Canadians should have the answers to Hsu’s questions BEFORE then, or no later than when it is tabled in Parliament. Timing isn’t good, if it drags to December 13, IMO. Also, let’s keep the pressure up.
I am providing below, for suggestions (but NOT for copy-paste, individual letters have more weight than petitions and boilerplate emails IMO but some might disagree), what I sent this afternoon to Flaherty, cc to Hsu’s office, my MP, and Murray Rankin (NDP Revenue Critic and point-person for the NDP caucus on FATCA).
It would be ESPECIALLY useful for those of you living in ridings currently held by Conservatives to do this today or tomorrow, given that on Wednesday or Thursday most Tory MPs will be off to their convention in Calgary — where I would hope FATCA will come up.
Here’s what I wrote today:
Dear Minister Flaherty,
Mr. Ted Hsu (MP-Kingston and the Islands) has submitted a written question (Q-121) concerning the government’s negotiations with the US concerning FATCA, for today’s Order Paper, which I believe he submitted last Friday.
I think the answers to this question are very important. I think Canadians generally, as well as Parliamentarians, should have the answers to these questions, no later than when (and if) an Intergovernmental Agreement is announced and tabled in Parliament. Though I understand the government has 45 days to reply to these questions, I would hope the answers are fairly straightforward. Either the government has the studies and has done the consultations which are the subject of the questions, and therefore should be able to release that information and those studies promptly, or it hasn’t done the studies and consultations mentioned — which is something I think would be of grave interest and concern to all Canadians. In either case, I think it important that these questions be addressed sooner than December 13, and certainly before or no later than any announcement of an IGA, if in fact there is to be one.
Please give Mr. Hsu’s questions your immediate attention. They address a subject of grave concern to the sovereignty of Canadian banking and privacy law, to the provisions of the Canada-US Taxation Treaty, and to the Charter rights of hundreds of thousands of Canadian citizens and residents. The subject also, I believe, has implications and impacts on the provinces, particularly those with their own Human Rights codes and legislations governing credit unions, which are going to be affected by FATCA if it is to be permitted in any way in Canada.
As you know from previous correspondence, I am strongly opposed to any provisions of any agreement with the United States which would in any way compromise Canada’s banking and privacy legislation, our joint taxation treaty, and the Charter rights of any Canadian residents, regardless of citizenship. In my strong opinion, the only information on Canadian banking and investment accounts which should be shared with the US for taxation purposes, is information pertaining to Canadian accounts held by US (not Canadian) residents.
Thank you for your urgent attention to this matter.
@ northernstar
Sorry northern Ontario (is that right?) is so chilly towards anti-FATCA action. Recently my husband visited a southern Alberta town which is very hot and bothered about FATCA. Apparently there are a lot of immigrants from the USA there and they know about FATCA. I hope they are doing something other than just praying.
@Em
I hope you or your husband know some of those southern Albertans and can perhaps encourage a few of them to “drop by” the Conservative convention in Calgary, to help Calgary411 and others to leaflet, or (even better) if any of those southern Albertans are card-carrying Conservatives, maybe they are delegates! They’d have to be Canadian citizens, I think, to be delegates, but still … some of them might be duals.
Schubert, I have done the above but adding Kevin Shoom in Finance to the list.
Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
@Em
Maybe a petition can be started in your neck of the woods.
@All
Have any of you experienced apathy from your own friends. None have answered me about my FATCA emails. I asked them to write/email their MP…Not one has answered me. It is so disappointing for me to see how little my friends care.
@ Schubert
That town is way south of Calgary, near the U.S. border. We don’t know anyone there. We hardly know anyone in our own town where we really can’t engage anyone directly about FATCA until my husband is safely not an American anymore. I’m going to try to persuade my husband to drive to our MP’s office in another southern Alberta town on Friday to drop off a Fact Sheet and Q-121 at our Conservative MPs office (God willing and the snow don’t grow — deeper, that is).
@Northernstar, I have not experienced apathy at all. Everyone I speak to is appalled and angry that the U.S. is once again over reaching and bullying Canada. The first reaction I get is that “Canada will say NO to that.” then I tell them the U.S. is threatening to with hold 30 percent on U.S. transactions and threatening our banks this way. The second they hear that they are very, very angry. Most are waiting to see what will really happen. I get the impression they do not believe Canada would do something like that.
Some at first think this is just about taxes on “Americans” but, when I explain it applies to everyone we are related to American or not who we share accounts with and that banking fees will have to go up here they are angrier still. I get the impression they just feel bullied by the U.S. and as you know Canadians have had more than enough of that.
@Em
my friends I talk to say the same but they will not their MP. To me that would show they care.
@NorthernStar. I know exactly how you feel! None of the family, or friends, or acquaintances I have tried to enlighten with various FATCA related info, have bitten. One had a polite response, and the rest ignored me completely. One lady suggested I find another more important cause to protest about if protesting is my thing.
Some of them are even ‘US persons’ or have ‘US person’ family; it’s like they have gone totally ostrich, and must think I am some sort of crazy, paranoid middle-age lady or something
@Northernstar,
Honestly I think they don’t really believe that what I am writing about could even be real, and once they shut you off right at the get go, it is difficult to attempt to engage them, without coming off like a fanatic. But, I think you almost DO have to become a little obsessed in order to get the message across, and move onto other people and don’t worry about the one’s who don’t get it. Think of it as a way of testing out who are the friends and family that are really special, and who are the acquaintances you want to get to know a little better.
They think I’m a crazy old lady. For an introvert, being more of an extrovert online, I at times think they are right. It is not the cause I’m going to abandon though.
@ WhiteKat @ Calgary411
Thanks for letting me know I am experiencing reactions the same as you.
I am not going to give up, as long as I have all of you , my Brock friends.
@Northernstar
🙂
ditto, northernstar.
Well, think of this in another way. When YOU first heard about this did you think it sounded nuts and wouldn’t apply to you? I know I did.
You never know what impact you will have by giving someone those flyers or talking to them, or directing them to please read here or go look at the “Myth” Tumbler pages to see what’s happening to people. Yes, at first people think this isn’t a big deal or that it sounds so over the top it couldn’t possibly be happening or apply to them. It takes time to absorb this in all it’s horror..lol. Each little chip away at the block of denial in these folks makes and impact and might actually save some of them from being caught in a gigantic mess if they will get involved.
I’ve gotten the same reactions, as well, except from my brother. He won the birth lottery, and was born in Canada.
My family and friends have been sympathetic, especially my mother and aunt; but others have lost patience or think I may have been guilty of something. My father has told me that he feels that I hadn’t been managing my finances responsibly, etc. None have expressed any interest in writing to their congressmen, etc.
Some of my friends (who have less money than I do) feel almost envious and, to them, I’ve got a problem they’d love to have…as if I should be willing to pay an ongoing tribute,having been brought up there; others, including my brother and even my husband, feel that I’m over-reacting and that the U.S. wouldn’t dream of carrying out these threats on ‘little people like me; it has left me feeling ultimately alone with all this.
People often assume ‘no smoke without fire’…even my mother was initially surprised to learn that I pay income tax in Britain and had assumed I still just paid taxes to the U.S., being a U.S. citizen. She understood after further explanation but initially believed that I should only owe taxes to America rather than Britain since I’m American. It’s part of this ethnocentric view.
They now understand the practicalities of my decision though I suspect deep down that many will still feel very disappointed in me, taking the view that ‘well she CHOSE to move over there and should have been willing to continue paying tribute to her native nation…that money is not everything and that she ultimately chose expediency over loyalty, etc.’ They also think I’m turning crazy from menopause, 😛