FATCA Fact Sheet Anti-FATCA Slogans Protest Press Release
AtticusinCanada has received an official permit to protest on Parliament Hill Oct. 16, 2013, from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m.! We will meet at 9 a.m. in front of Parliament Hill and proceed to the Hill itself once we have a reasonably sized group. Families and even children are welcome if you feel they are old enough! We ask that everyone bring their own sign. A good idea would be to email AtticusinCanada with the slogans you would like to use, so we have as few duplicates as possible.
First posted on September 11, 2013
The mini-protest in Ottawa on Sept 9, 2013, garnered some well needed media attention. Just imagine how much we could achieve if more Brockers joined forces for a larger protest at parliament hill this fall!
Many of us believe that a formal announcement of an IGA for FATCA is just around the corner. It’s time to ramp up with the push back. The letter writing and emailing to our elected representatives has been great, and some illuminating articles have been written by Lynne and Victoria, but we need to do more.
Atticusincanada and I would like to be the drivers towards organizing a larger protest, but first we need to gather enough participants. For those Brockers who can commit to coming to Ottawa for a day, and would like to join us, please email Atticusincanada at atticusincanada@gmail.com.
@all
When or if FATCA is unleashed on Canada will determine how compassionate Canada is as a nation. Will most people try to understand the nuances of the situation or will they react by attacking their fellow Canadians with US connections? How the Canadian government rolls FATCA out will play a big part in how the general public determines who is the real culprit here. I fear many of us overestimate the intelligence and civility of the average Canadian. I hope I’m wrong.
@bubblebustin, we were discussing your concerns yesterday after a disturbed man came by saying “you’re tax cheats” and “yankee go home.” Now to be clear on this I think the man had mental health issues and he did not seem balanced. However, when people realize that FATCA was foisted on Canada by the U.S. because of the presence of U.S. citizens here then the backlash may well be formidable.
I said to my husband on the way home that if that happens we’ll be unwelcome back there and unwelcome here. Thanks U.S.A….*snark* I do see that as a potential issue as more and more people become aware that Canada cannot comply with FATCA without violating our Charter of Rights or without raising the bank fees of all Canadians. These are very serious issues that apply to everyone living here not just those with “U.S. person” connections. It’s important to direct the anger of Canadians where it belongs. Towards the U.S. and not towards the most damaged by FATCA all over the world. After all it’s the U.S. who is wrong about this, wrong about their approach to tax evasion and plain wrong about the way they have gone about addressing their issues. Would Canada have thought up something like this and attempted to do what the U.S. is doing in such a demanding and arrogant manner?
bubblebustin,
As part of a family with a complicated US citizenship entrapment issue that cannot be resolved, I share your concern — VERY MUCH. Part of us are out; one cannot get out. Insanity continues.
Yesterday, there was also a group protesting about the disappearing bees in Canada. This topic also came up recently when a group of Ottawa Brockers got together for a pleasant afternoon out in an idyllic setting in the countryside, while walking outdoors and stopping to watch some bees.
One woman from the bee protest came up to me and asked me about FATCA; she was of First Nations origin. I didn’t go into a lot of detail about FATCA, so I doubt she really understood it from the brief description I gave her, but she did seem sympathetic. She made a comment which I could have taken the wrong way, but I know she did not mean to be dismissive of our cause. She said something along the lines of ‘what is money if we don’t have a healthy environment’. She is right of course, and I agreed with her concerns and said I would be over there protesting with her if I wasn’t protesting about FATCA. Her ’cause’ at that moment did feel more significant than mine. However thinking about it later, I realized that if we don’t have a government and a world order that values human rights first and foremost, than we have no chance of ever treating the environment with respect it needs in order to sustain us. In the end, we are fighting for the same thing.
I’m sorry if I sounded like I think the average Canadian is an idiot, but if fed the wrong information, anyone can be.
Those are very wise words from both you and the bee advocate, WhiteKat. That’s why I voted Green last election and advocate for US persons everywhere.
Oh my, there was a bee protest that day too? If I had been there (and I did want to be there) I would have had to make some time for that protest too. Bees are very dear to me because my father was a beekeeper (among other things). I’m convinced the bee demise is at least partly, more likely mostly, connected to the MonSatan. And as for the tumblr page … yes, yes, we need to present faces (or partial faces) to visually demonstrate the damage FATCA is causing.
Every first nations person I spoke with who was there for Idle No More and the issue regarding bees and the environment was totally sympathetic to our issue. One man said “The U.S. is always bullying us.”
We only had one rogue man who ranted at us. There were a LOT of people who came up to us and fully understood. From First Nations participants on the Hill that day, RCMP officers, average citizens passing by. Some who had heard of this but, hadn’t had all the details before. One young man there for the bees who came on his lunch break said “Whoa! One more thing I need to get involved in, this is awful.”
People do not yet get it but, being out there where you can talk to them face to face makes a huge difference. I think those with the “wrong” information who can turn against us are in the minority by FAR. We only had one out of perhaps fifty people we spoke with yesterday. The importance of talking directly to people and letting them see you cannot be overstated! We are average citizens just like they are, when they can see us and hear us right in front of them it’s a lot different than reading an unfortunate story about someone. Don’t get me wrong, reading these stories is vitally important but, to take it a step further and let your fellow citizens see you are real makes a lasting impact on them. “We’re your friends and neighbours.” This is real and it will impact you and everyone else readers out there.
Wise deduction, WhiteKat. The whole continuing disappearance of bees and butterflies as Big Agriculture increases and may be a cause is very troubling to me also. Will Monsanto and GMO’s be the answer for the ever-increasing world population’s cheap food supply or the very demise of bees and butterflies and all things necessary for producing the food to sustain us all? I’ve read that some places in China now use women and children to pollinate with dainty brushes the crops that bees and butterflies once took care of; almond crops in California are suffering because of loss of bees. Human rights in one way or another is a common denominator of so many modern-day problems.
It is encouraging the see the people who are tuned in to whatever issue needs advocacy was out there fostering awareness — the cream of the Canadian crop.
@Calgary411, re: cream of the crop, I won’t talk about the people standing near us that were advocating against gay relationships, and another anti-choice protest that some people confused us with. One young woman passerby got quite vocal thinking we were against her having a wife, but we quickly pointed out that we were not part of that protest.
@Em, that is cool about your dad having been a bee keeper!
@ Bubblebustin, at the recent Ottawa Brocker lunch, I think most agreed we would likely vote Green next election.
LOL, WhiteKat. Well, most were cream of the crop! I hope they weren’t gathering a lot of support and you weren’t too close to confuse anyone. I guess they aren’t likely to be swayed to something as radical as justice for US Persons in Canada and care little about FATCA — but it, too, could affect a few there (3%?) that don’t yet realize their fate.
@AtticusinCanada
I seem to recall that you said that there were only 2 other demonstration permits given for that day, the Girl Guides and other one I can’t recall. I guess if you feel inspired you can guerrilla demonstrate on Parliament Hill any time you like?
Yesterday I went to a lecture who had no less than Jean-Claude Trichet (last President of the ECB) as the speaker. It was the end of the lecture and the organiser was in a rush, but Trichet did say the ‘US thinks there’s only one in the world.’ I’m paraphrasing but that was essentially his point and he didn’t sound very enthusiastic about FATCA unlike the French minister the other day.
Don’t give up hope that ‘watered down’ FATCA may arise through each country’s courts. Does anyone know the latest on the Swiss referendum?
WhiteKat –
… how hard it is to get average Canadians on our side when describing FATCA. Unfortunately when you talk about ‘taxes’, people don’t care because they see this as a problem of ‘Americans’ which doesn’t affect them. … It is very difficult to talk to about FATCA, CBT, etc with people who know nothing about it without making it just ‘a problem of Americans’.
Bubblebustin –
When or if FATCA is unleashed on Canada will determine how compassionate Canada is as a nation. Will most people try to understand the nuances of the situation or will they react by attacking their fellow Canadians with US connections? How the Canadian government rolls FATCA out will play a big part in how the general public determines who is the real culprit here. I fear many of us overestimate the intelligence and civility of the average Canadian. I hope I’m wrong.
Plaudits for this REALISM amid the morass of febrile scurrying. Start here for assessment of effective actions. Sauve qui peut.
@Bubblebustin, you can demonstrate there whenever you like and they can ask you to leave whenever they like if you don’t have a permit. It’s really just a security measure. With a permit as long as you are following the rules you can’t be asked to leave save an extreme emergency. It’s also good for the group to get the permit as you are assigned an RCMP officer and that officer will look out for you should you need them. Some people can get a little bit out of line with certain groups as we saw. It’s just nice to have the permit so you know you are allowed to be there. We were assigned an area to be in. I was glad it was near the flame since it was rainy and that flame was warm!
@AtticusinCanada
Thanks for the info, good to know if someone has a spontaneous and overwhelming urge to picket Parliament Hill 🙂
@ usxcanada
we need to remind Canadians that the US CBT is extraterritorial taxation, which costs all Canadians.
monies** sent to the US for all facets of CBT will never return to our economy to be spent with local merchants or invested in our industries. this results in a reduction of sales tax receipts available for local services and the lost investments will mean a reduction In the growth of our gross domestic product. to the benefit of the US economy.
** taxes paid to the US. The increased complexity and regulatory regime of tax-preparers by the IRS has caused Canadian tax-preparers to stop doing US returns, fees paid to US based firms will not be spent in Canada. Canadian residents will be advised to invests in the US to reduce or eliminate filing and reporting cost. These investments will not benefit Canada.
As is the case with CBT, the cost associated with FATCA will borne by all Canadians . Implementation cost of up to $2 billion and annual recurring cost approximately 10% of implementation costs will passed on all customers, resulting in higher fees for opening and maintaining all accounts from mortgages, investing and chequeing accounts. A substantial part of these increased fees will go the US based FATCA compliance cartel and lost to Canada.
We do have some defensive options in opposing FATCA
1. Parliament: the opposition will vote against any implementing legislation, hopefully enough government members of conscience will also vote no.
2. The Governor General represents the sovereign (and the sovereignty of Canada). A Law does not come in force without royal assent. We should find a way to petition the GG to deny royal assent and force the government to call an election over FATCA
3. Provincial Governments. responsibility for financial institutions and securities is split between federal and provincial authorities, FATCA can be fully implemented without the provincial legislation.
4 The next election, when an MP who has voted yes to a FATCA IGA asks for our vote, we will say NO.
@usxcanada
I felt pretty certain that my comment would roust you from your quiescence 🙂
Any backlash against US persons in Canada will only be as strong as the threat as it’s perceived multiplied by the degree of anti-Americanism pre-existent in each Canadian. Neutrality will give way to either pro or anti Americanism in a number of people, again depending on the degree of threat they perceive. As for the febrile scurrying, any rallying against the oppressor we do will only work in our favour.
usxcanada
On your numbered points, I would say:
– The GG won’t refuse royal assent to any legislation. To do so would create a constitutional crisis. So don’t bother going there
– The reality is that this is a minor issue on the Canadian political scene, and will remain so, though we are of course working to raise the profile. No MP will be elected or defeated on this issue (alas!)
– The provincial angle is an important one. It prevents or at least inhibits the federal government making a comprehensive agreement with the US
Can any Country come out with there own laws ? FATCA is a US law that the US started. What if China or any other Country came out and said any Person that has traveled to our Country for even a day now owes us $25, 000. Would Canada then say to all 30 million Canadians to send cheques to China because that’s their law. No, we would just ignore them. In some Countries females have no rights, etc, cant vote ETC.
But in Canada, we say that’s fine in your country but when in Canada you have to do what the law says here which Females can vote. You go by the Canadian law because we are in Canada. CBA and other organizations keep saying they are lobbying to Washington and negotiating with the IRS. Why don’t they not lobby or negotiate and don’t pay any attention to them. Don’t implement FATCA, Don’t withhold 30%, .
I keep hearing that they can’t ignore or say no to the IRS because they will withhold 30%. Just tell them if they have a law that withholds 30% to another Country we will come out with a law that states we will withhold 35% from any Country that imposes a withholding tax on us.Then we will make an extra 5% everytime. Why are they the only Country that can just come out of the blue with a 30% withholding law. . I guess they can,, but we can ignore it also.
Just like if we said to the US that, we just started a law that states any US citizen that’s been to Canada for more then 48 hours is a Cdn for tax purposes . And to get rid of the Canadian tax person you will have to sign papers at a Cdn consulate and the cost to do that will be $15,000. per person.
The US would just ignore it and say who cares it’s not our law. Why are these examples any different then the US coming out with a US law and everyone scrambles to negotiate it and try to stop it. Why not just completely ignore it. And I am talking about the Canadian banks here not individuals.
@Don
The Swiss referendum against FATCA has been launched and they are now in the process of collecting signatures. They have 100 days from the launch date to collect 50,000 valid signatures. I think the deadline is on or about the 16th of January. If they are successful, then there will be a public vote probably in Spring 2014. In order for the vote to be successful, they would need a majority voting in favour of repealing the Swiss adoption of FATCA and would also need a majority of the individual cantons. I’m not sure exactly how this works as there are 20 full and 6 half cantons.
Of course, even if the vote is successful, it doesn’t change the fact that FATCA is still US law. It would require the banks to make a decision as to whether they would respect Swiss law or US law. If the banks choose to adhere to Swiss law, then I would imagine that every bank in Switzerland would seek to cleanse itself of every US person account holder or any company or trading partner or counter party with any US connection. It could get extremely ugly.
Can any Country come out with their own laws. We keep hearing from the CBA and other organizations that they don’t want FATCA. Well , they say if they ignore it , the US will withhold 30% tax on them. Why don’t we come out with a law that states any Country that withholds 30 tax on us we will implement a 35% withholding tax on them. What I am getting at is can any Country just come out with their own law. It sounds like in the US case the answer is yes. It’s just a matter if you do ,will other country’s just ignore it.
@FATCA dump. Every other nation in this world would carry a LOT of weight if they all demanded that in order to sign any IGA the U.S. MUST go to residency based taxation. After all the U.S. is demanding the rest of the world go along with their FATCA law. So in return other nations should be asking that the U.S. play by the same rules as every other nation and stop CBT. This would save other nations a lot of money since they would only be looking for those with no local holdings with a bank account in their country AND U.S. indica. Those are the people actually “off shoring’ NOT long term expats. Helping the U.S. continue CBT does nothing for these other nations except cost them money.
No RBT? No IGA!
Can any Country come out with their own laws. We keep hearing from the CBA and other organizations that they don’t want FATCA. Well , they say if they ignore it , the US will withhold 30% tax on them. Why don’t we come out with a law that states any Country that withholds 30 tax on us we will implement a 35% withholding tax on them. What I am getting at is , If the US just decided to start this law of withholding 30%, what would stop other countries to come out with a law that withholds 35% on them. If they ignore it. Just ignore there law.