http://www.iiroc.ca/news/Documents/FAS2013_FATCA_JRando.pdf
Take note of slide #7
Canadian tax legislation and regulations will be changed to require due diligence on existing accounts, new account opening procedures and reporting by all “Reporting Financial Institutions” unless they are specifically listed as exempt or unless they meet criteria to be “deemed compliant”
Makes me sick to my stomach – detailed instructions exactly how to knuckle under to the US overlords.
By the way for those thinking they are too little to be noticed, there is a specific timetable for starting with whales and drilling down over time to plankton.
If they are correct then there is no reason or way to be able to live here in Canada and keep U.S. citizenship long term. You just cannot do it. You can’t save. You can’t invest for your family here with any U.S. person on any account. If you can’t move back you will have to renounce. It’s their doing.
Time table? Really?
@shunrata
“By the way for those thinking they are too little to be noticed, there is a specific timetable for starting with whales and drilling down over time to plankton.” Well put. There will be a duty to do so as to not be discriminatory.
The most important image the banking industry needs to constantly portray is that your money is safe with them. With the implementation of FATCA, this perception will change when our banks begin to facilitate confiscation by a foreign government. Our perceptions that our government acts on its citizens best interests will change too. FATCA is an act of war, reciprocity is nothing other than a negotiated surrender.
The saddest, and equally infuriating, thing about this is the unquestioned ascertain that Canada has to change it’s laws and regulations because they don’t suit the Americans.
WFT?!
In the course of preparing for my citizenship test, I have been reading a lot about the beginnings of Canada and confederation, and although the many factions in involved and a lot of issues with each other, they were all in agreement that being a vassal of the USA was not something they wanted. Indeed, they felt that it was impossible to reconcile Canadian values, culture and ideas about rights and laws with those held by American society.
Our founders would be fit to be tied if they could see what has become of us. In their opinion, and practice, Canadian law ruled and was superior to American laws when it came to Canadian soil.
Though I know that the Americans swear up and down that they do recognize dual citizenship, in practice it is clear that they do not, and it is more clear that they have little use and no respect for the sovereignty of other nations.
A law made by the biggest tax haven of all. I dont see anybody in Delaware, Wyoming or Nevada having to report anything. For that matter- nobody on Wall Street was indicted either. And the wierdest thing about it all is the the whole world, especially Europe, is covering up for it.
@Polly, well said!
I can’t stand the fact that the U.S. allowed Wall St. and the Banks to hand out bad loans like water and then speculate against those loans and just walk away! If I had done that or you had done that we’d all be under the jail. And yet, this same country decides to hound and harass low and middle income expat families with impunity. Bullies other nations into changing their own laws, brags about “bringing in taxes” when they know it’s penalties for the most part.
It might actually be taxes if they went after Delaware, Nevada and Wyoming.
… and Florida. Please, let us not forget dear old, tax-haven-supreme, Florida.
Lest anyone thought Canadian bankers and investment mavens were anything other than Quislings and other words for “traitor” that I’ll omit, this is it.
And I used to think (some) lawyers were the people that disgusted me most. Nope. Not any more. Bankers, IIROC people, and DuffyWalin Senators.
Maybe nations like FATCA because it forces their citizens to cleanse themselves of any US diseases.
The IIAC Canada believes it’s easier to ‘steamroll’ FATCA though and make sure its member continue to profit through US investments rather than say NO to the US.
The last line of defense FATCA is going to treat it as a discrimination issue and get Canadian courts to ‘carve out’ Canadian citizens and leave the US without data. If you’re Canada than the bank’s database should say ‘Canadian’ and if they’re born abroad simply put Ottawa as their place of birth for banking purposes.
This will effectively cut out all the FATCA software and leave resident Canadian citizens without the worry of IRS intrusion.
The big institutions and associations are being advised by top compliance firms that are looking out for their own interests, not their clients’. Just look at the “reason” given why “FATCA is here to stay”: because an IGA, once it is signed, will make compliance mandatory. That’s a tautology. “FATCA is here to stay because something to make it stay will happen, so let’s make it happen.” Of course, if that “something” (the IGA), *doesn’t* happen, FATCA may *not* be “here to stay.” And the best way for the IGA not to happen, is for big institutions and their associations to stop pushing for it. But then, where would poor “fear mongering” compliance consultants be?
Jim is absolutely correct in his assessment of the role financial industry is pursuing versus the role they should be taking.
The IIAC point person on FATCA is Andrea Taylor ataylor@iiac.ca
I sent her an email several weeks ago and got no response.
I do know that the IIAC has concerns about the reaction of its customer base once an IGA is in place, However, their main concern is keeping their own costs of compliace as low as possible.
Yeah and whenever any industry has higher costs they pass them on to the consumer.
YOu can remind them that the employees of the bank could easily spend 3 years in a USA prison
Unless any contract with USA is completely valid and unless such contract would explicitly nullify such a US law, the US law below would be intended to be enforced upon Canada. In fact, by any nation signing and ratifying any such IGA, these penalties ought to have been brought into their laws.
http://www.fsitaxposts.com/2012/09/03/faq-responsible-officer-certifications-fatca/#!
“Any person who willfully makes and subscribes any return, statement, or other document, which contains or is verified by a written declaration that is made under the penalties of perjury, and which he does not believe to be true and correct as to every material matter; shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof:
◾Shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years;
◾Or fined not more than $250,000 for individuals ($500,000 for corporations);
◾Or both, together with cost of prosecution.
No tax deficiency must be shown in order for the Government to succeed in its prosecution. All which must be proved are the elements of the offense. The essence of the statute lies in the willful falsity of a statement.
The FAQ here focuses on false certifications made by Responsible Officers. It can apply to any false document certified under penalties of perjury such as Forms W-9, W-8IMY, W-8BEN, W8-BEN-E, W-8EXP, and W-8ECI.”
Then you can tell them that there are high-priced consultants available who give week long instruction courses on how white collar criminals should behave in order to make it through their prison sentences.
“By the way for those thinking they are too little to be noticed, there is a specific timetable for starting with whales and drilling down over time to plankton.”
Time for us plankton to head on over to the consulate and take the renunciation oath, before we get drilled.
@mjh – yes, I am still bothering the consulate and they are still not giving me an appointment – they say it’s not high on their priorities list. Hopefully they will eventually get tired of me calling them and just schedule me already.
@Moose,
re; “Yeah and whenever any industry has higher costs they pass them on to the consumer.”
And in this case, it is ALL consumers around the world, the majority of whom are not even ‘US taxable persons’ or US citizens. And, they’ll pay twice – once as account holder/consumers, AND again also as non-US taxpayers paying out of government coffers for their own country to implement FATCA IGAs – with no benefit (even to the US).
I posted this elsewhere, but also fits here;
Have a look at this:
http://www.clhia.ca/domino/html/clhia/CLHIA_LP4W_LND_Webstation.nsf/page/06A7E6DA85F3446885257B34006CD347/$file/Joint_Comments_FATCA_IGA.pdf
‘Joint FI Industry Comments to Finance re FATCA IGA February11, 2013 The following comments include concerns identified by Canadian FI associations (CLHIA, CBA, IFIC and IIAC) with respect to the implementation of FATCA under a Canadian IGA.’
‘Adoption of a Risk-Based Approach for FATCA Implementation in Canada’
What a great find, Badger! Reading it makes it clear what a klausterfokken FATCA really is for those negotiating IGA’s.
Who’s kidding here – money grubbing Treasury doesn’t seem to know the meaning of ‘low risk’ is, let alone allowing anyone to self-certify being so. Also, do you think they’ll allow the extent to which FFI’s must search for indicia be determined by how deep their current systems can mine for it? It’s also pretty clear that the Canadian government and its banks will have to consider FATCA when introducing any new tax-deferring investment schemes, regardless of whether that scheme is good for Canadians or not, for example, TFSA’s not qualifying as an exempt product.
Our hope is that in building a “more robust IGA” they’ll tie themselves into a knot trying.
Sorry, should be “Also, do you think they’ll allow the extent to which FFI’s MUST search for indicia be determined by how deep their current systems can mine for it?”