A reader of Isaac Brock sent me the following letter:
Dear CBA:
It’s time for your organization to start standing up for your customers on this issue. You can do much more than encourage the Government to sign onto an egregious foreign governments demand (IGA) to throw Canadian sovereignty out the window to simply protect your members bottom lines.
There comes a time when every person and or organization has to take a principled stand and now is that time for your organization. When the government of Canada says no to signing onto an IGA, which would be tantamount to political suicide, it’s going to land squarely in your court. Are you going to compromise the rights of your loyal customers to respond to what amounts to IRS extortion? Do you think your members and shareholders would support a strong, principled, well funded resistance? Absolutely, once they know the facts. Get the facts out there. Spend some of our money edifying people on this issue. Use the press, use your members resources like the annual rational for increasing fee structures.
It is what it is: The school yard bully wants your lunch money. How do we instruct our kids to handle bully’s? Bully’s don’t expect a fight. It’s time you guys gave them one. It’s time you guys gave something meaningful back to your loyal customers and helped the government of Canada on this issue. Stand up and show some courage and initiative.
I’ll be the first one in line to sign onto a class action if any of my banks ask me where I was born. I’m a Canadian ….end of story.
Sincerely,
[Name withheld by request]
@usxcanada
I will yield to the more experienced (and courageous) on this matter 🙂
Scotia Bank worried about #FATCA and data security, has already spent $100M on compliance. http://bit.ly/1heoONm
Could they not have spent a small percentage of that on lobbying in DC to repeal FATCA instead? or…. these comments by Badger..
badger says
October 25, 2013 at 1:19 am
@Just Me,
Makes it seem pretty suspicious that they didn’t spend even an iota of that to inform their account holders what was coming down the pipeline, so that they could prepare and so that they could lobby the Harper government not to sign ANY type of FATCA IGA. They are fine with the majority of the million or more, plus all the other non-US accountholders to be blindsided and forced to certify and provide proof of citizenship and become entangled with the IRS.
I am certain that there have been other occasions when the CBA, IIAC, etc have taken out full page ads in Canadian media in order to lobby for something, but not this time, not for their fellow Canadians, families and account holders.
I hope that there is a big backlash against them. They deserve it for their sneaky disingenuous backroom collaborationist ways. Certainly I will never forgive or forget – whether an IGA is signed or no.
Who gets a say in Canadian government and public policy that would bind all of us forever – obviously not the Canadian public taxpayers and voters – nope, we’re governed by the CBA and their investment arms.
Oh, poor poor Scotiabank:
http://www.theprovince.com/business/Electronic+spying+issue+banks+Scotia+Waugh+says/9073893/story.html
Re FATCA:
…”Scotiabank is working to get its operations in compliance. Mr. Waugh estimates his bank has already spent nearly $100-million on the effort….”
$100-million All that effort and money spent – but no money spent on efforts to educate fellow Canadians, oppose FATCA, nor mention of the Canadian family and individual accountholders whose information Scotiabank will be turning over under a FATCA IGA.
Scotiabank spent 7 months late last year and early this year having the FATCA Trac system implemented into their system by this person:
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/neha-mahajan/33/927/137
As per her resume:
Business System Analyst
Scotiabank
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; BNS; Banking industry
October 2012 – April 2013 (7 months) Toronto, Canada Area
– Implementing FATCA Compliance initiative at Scotia Bank’s Canadian Retail banking system
– Analyzing and interpreting the FATCA regulatory requirements, interacting with various business groups within BFSI, understanding the implications of FATCA and performing impact analysis, effort estimation.
– Planning and defining the project scope and create detailed business requirements document (EDD ) for Retail business banking FATCA implementation project. Conducting walk-through sessions with various stakeholders to facilitate sign-off process
– Leveraging existing systems, customer data (MDM) for developing FATCA release implementation road map.
– Developing use cases, defining & documenting user procedures and workflows
– Integrating technical solutions with business environment, recognizing systems design and data inter-dependencies and re-usability.
– Leveraging FATCA TRAC (SATYAM DION Tool) to implement FATCA internal reporting requirements, designing USE cases for TRAC case management system
She loves that “leveraging” word…
I.E., “Leveraging” my compliance expertise for a new hirer paid government suckling job.
Dear CBA,
I suppose sacrificing a few Americans for the greater good of ALL the bank’s customers is ok for you. What you might have trouble reconciling with your customers is that FATCA’s ‘good’ for the world. You think the average bank customer won’t be able to recognize it for what it is, nothing more than thinly-veiled extortion? What would that realization do for the banking business, CBA, when your customers find out that being ‘responsible’ meant giving into the extortionist to save yourself from the extortionist – and at the same time throwing 3% of Canada’s population and their families under the bus? Not good PR, CBA.
Bubblebustin –
Time has come to take a keen edge to your dictionary page, to razor out that word “yield” …
I would so love to protest somewhere where the CBA has something going on. If anyone hears of anything, please let us all know!
@usxcanada, I’m still trying to get up the nerve to leave FACT sheet handouts at my bank!
Perhaps the CBA can answer a question for me.
I attempted to transfer money from a chequing to an RESP, same bank and branch. I couldn’t do it online, over the phone, or through a teller. I call the branch, and I am put through to some call centre to book an appointment to make the transfer. I am told to bring two pieces of ID, options listed off, including CANADIAN birth certificate, CANADIAN passport, SIN, DL.
Hmmmm. Not very happy. We’ll see what happens. Incidentally, this is an EXISTING RESP.
I’ve signed up to receive notices from the CBA. I received one a few days ago:
Canadian Bankers Association to launch financial literacy program for seniors
For Immediate Release
Ottawa, Ontario, November 1, 2013 – To mark the start of Financial Literacy Month, the Canadian Bankers Association (CBA) today announced that it will be launching a national financial literacy program for seniors. Modelled on the CBA’s highly successful Your Money Students program, this new seminar program will be offered in French and English, free of charge, to seniors’ groups across the country.
Your Money – SeniorsThe program, Your Money Seniors, will be presented by bankers in the community volunteering their time and expertise. Focusing on people who are retired or preparing for retirement, the non-commercial program will cover issues such as:
Budgeting
Cash management
Financial abuse – with emphasis on avoiding risks associated with Powers of Attorney and joint accounts
Fraud and scams targeted at seniors
Financial checklist and other sources of financial information
Canadians are living longer, healthier lives than ever before. With an average life expectancy of 80 years, the number of seniors is growing rapidly. Unlike previous generations, some of today’s seniors are delaying retirement and working longer. Whether they are approaching retirement or have already retired, many Canadians are contemplating important questions such as: How can they ensure that their money will last? How should they manage their financial affairs if their physical or cognitive capacity is diminished?
“Our bankers have a lot of experience working with customers and helping them manage the unique challenges that people of retirement age have to face,” said Terry Campbell, President of the Canadian Bankers Association. “With Your Money Seniors, information will be provided to seniors’ groups to help seniors work out the answers to many of their questions.”
The federal government has clearly identified seniors as a priority for financial literacy efforts and Budget 2013 outlined the need for a strategy for seniors under the leadership of the soon-to-be-appointed financial literacy leader. Your Money Seniors will fit in well with this strategy.
“In today’s increasingly complex financial marketplace, financial literacy is key to helping seniors make better financial decisions,” said the Honourable Kevin Sorenson, Minister of State (Finance). “And when seniors have access to the tools they need to make those decisions, not only do they improve their own personal finances; the economy as a whole benefits as well. I am delighted that the CBA partnered with the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada to undertake this initiative to help Canadian seniors.”
Your Money Seniors is being developed in partnership with the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada (FCAC) and seminars are expected to begin in mid 2014.
“We look forward to working in collaboration with the CBA to ensure that seniors receive the objective information they can use to manage their finances in the way that best meets their current and future needs,” said Lucie Tedesco, Commissioner of the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada. “I am confident that this program will be as well-received as Your Money Students has been.”
Your Money Seniors will be modelled on the CBA’s highly successful financial literacy program, Your Money Students. Since 1999, Your Money Students has been helping senior high school students learn the basics of budgeting, saving, investing and keeping their money safe. To date, local bankers who volunteer their time have conducted 7,400 seminars for over 220,000 students in high school classes across the country.
Banks are an active and essential part of the daily lives of most Canadians. Ninety-six per cent of Canadians have an account with a financial institution, so millions turn to banks every day for information, tools, services and advice to help them manage their financial affairs. Banks are also leaders in supporting financial literacy activities in communities across the country.
About the Canadian Bankers Association
The Canadian Bankers Association works on behalf of 57 domestic banks, foreign bank subsidiaries and foreign bank branches operating in Canada and their 275,000 employees. The CBA advocates for effective public policies that contribute to a sound, successful banking system that benefits Canadians and Canada’s economy. The Association also promotes financial literacy to help Canadians make informed financial decisions and works with banks and law enforcement to help protect customers against financial crime and promote fraud awareness. http://www.cba.ca
Follow the CBA on Twitter: @CdnBankers
Watch videos: Youtube.com/CdnBankers
Follow the CBA on LinkedIn
– 30 –
For more information:
Kate Payne
Canadian Bankers Association
T: (416) 362-6093 ext. 219
C: (416) 587-7733
kpayne@cba.ca
In response, I thought I’d drop Ms Payne a line:
Dear Ms Payne,
I am a US citizen who’ve been living in Canada from the age of 12. My husband was born in Canada and is a US citizen through his American father. There are many avenues of saving for retirement that are toxic to Unites States persons. Has the Canadian Bankers Association been lobbying the Canadian government to apply diplomatic pressure to the US to exempt these savings plans for Canadians with US citizenship? What do you recommend a Canadian do when they realize they should not have been investing in certain savings plans? In your educational outreach program, do you plan to make Canadians with US citizenship aware of their tax obligations to the US?
By the most common estimate, United States citizens represent approximately 3% of Canada’s population, and that does not include their families. This is a significant demographic as we age and accumulate financial assets that may be exposed to seizure by the US if we are unaware of our tax obligations to the US. My husband and I were unaware and as a result had to forfeit a significant portion of our retirement savings in order to meet US tax obligations. Your attention to this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Yours truly,
(bubblebustin)
Today I received a response from non-other than Ms Drew-Lytle:
Dear Ms. bubblebustin,
Thank you for your email, it was forwarded to me. I’m sorry to hear about your situation. The CBA cannot provide investment advice to bank customers. My suggestion is that you speak to your financial advisor who can help you arrange your investment strategy to minimize instances where you hold investments that are not subject to tax in Canada but are subject to tax in the U.S.
Sincerely,
Maura Drew-Lytle | Director, Media Relations and Communications | Directrice, Relations avec les médias et Communications
What do you think Brockers? Do you think she could have at least answered my question about what the CBA would do if they come across a USP who’s not aware of their US tax obligations? I’ve written to Ms Drew-Lytle in the past. Do you think I’ve been stonewalled?
@bubblebustin … from your comment……….”I suppose sacrificing a few Americans for the greater good of ALL the bank’s customers is ok for you”
recommendation that all CBAnksters should read Ursula K L Guin’s classic “One Walks Away from Omelas”…. might shift a few …… thank you for your courage, dedication and spirit…………
you rock!
@crystal london
I just read the plot summary for “One Walks Away from Omelas” in Wikipedia. Sounds profound.
“In the story, Omelas is a utopian city of happiness and delight, whose inhabitants are intelligent and cultured. Everything about Omelas is pleasing, except for the city’s one atrocity: the good fortune of Omelas requires that a single unfortunate child be kept in perpetual filth, darkness and misery, and that all her citizens should be told of this upon coming of age.
After being exposed to the truth, most of the people of Omelas are initially shocked and disgusted, but are ultimately able to come to terms with the fact and resolve to live their lives in such a manner as to make the suffering of the unfortunate child worth it. However, a few of the citizens, young and old, silently walk away from the city, and no one knows where they go. The story ends with “The place they go towards is a place even less imaginable to most of us than the city of happiness. I cannot describe it at all. It is possible it does not exist. But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas
@Petros.
I have a journalist who wants to do a story on FATCA. Can you email me and I can give you her name. or you can give me your email address and she can contact you She thought she would interview some of those on I am a Myth. Anyone on there want to be interviewed? She is going to IRS tomorrow to get their side of the story.
@northernstar: i’m willing to talk to the journalist and use my real name. Can one of the site administrators let NorthernStar know how to contact me directly.
Which publication is she from?
bubblebustin,
In a word, YES. Chicken way out: speak to your financial advisor. Chicken way out from the IRS Help Desk, from our Canadian government representatives: they tell us to get the advice of a US tax lawyer or US cross-border accounting firm. They just don’t know how to or don’t want to or are too damn lazy to assist ‘US Persons’. We’re on our own.
The least our government or our Canadian banks and investment firms could do is put warning stickers on the Canadian registered investments that will be toxic to those considered US Persons — no, sales of investments trumps — buyer beware /you should have done your homework.
northernstar,
You’ve been busy. Good for you.
Their side of the story — you mean the Stack ‘O Lies Myths. Is this a Canadian journalist? I’ve been stung in interviews before but I’d, too, consider it.
Done, Blaze.
@Calgary 411 and Blaze
I sent her Blaze’s email address. She is a journalist based in DC. the story is to be done day after tomorrow. Very short notice but there is a chance we can make an impression.
The Mom.
what you wrote scares me…Your bank is asking for Canadian id. yuk.
Crystal London
The story of the Ones who walk away from Omelas is very sad and scary.
@All I suppose that the Canadian government will also quietly ratify FATCA like ICSID Convention, a binding set of rules for how investor-to-state disputes (like the Lone Pine case against Quebec’s fracking moratorium) are handled that some countries (e.g. Bolivia, Venezuela, Ecuador) are pulling out of because of how these rules undermine state sovereignty. Canada had signed the Convention, and already agrees to 99 per cent of its arbitration rules, but could not be a full member until all of the provinces had passed ratifying legislation.
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/council-canadians/2013/11/canada-quietly-ratifies-controversial-international-investm
@The Mom,
Hmmmm. Are you there wasn’t a communication problem? I can’t see why you would need ID to move money from one account to another.
@bubblebustin, You’ve been gaslighted. She answered a question you never even asked!
@WhiteKat
I’ve never heard the term “gas lighting” before, but from what I’ve been able to quickly research, I believe it has its roots in projection. Frankly, I think she’s probably just running disclaimers right now. Could we have them on the run as far as PR goes?
WhiteKat, I think there may have been a misunderstanding at the call centre (don’t like that either, when I call my branch, I want my branch). I stressed, several times, that this was an existing RESP. Will see what happens when I go to the appointment.
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