Dear
You can see Tom Mulcair took the question asked at the forum and your letter seriously, and acted with dispatch. Murray Rankin, as Hoang Mai’s successor, was of course already working on this issue, so, as Tom’s letter notes, it made sense to reiterate the NDP’s deep concern in Murray Rankin’s September 25 letter in his role as National Revenue Critic. You may not be aware but Murray Rankin is a renowned and experienced constitutional litigator, and in an excellent position to be taking onboard the questions of applicability of the Charter of Rights along with our Justice Critic. I will remain available to assist Murray in his analysis, but I am confident one could not have a more qualified Official Opposition Revenue Critic to be in charge of this file.
All best,
Craig
Why don’t they just refer to Peter Hogg’s analysis? Why do they need someone new to decide if the NDP thinks this could be a Charter Challenge? I’m concerned about that. It is as if they want to appear to not know what has already been pointed out about this by Hogg and others.
Along with “our” justice critic? Interesting response.
All,
I can confirm from my offline sources that MP Murray Rankin has been in touch with an even more prominent Constitutional lawyer(not Hogg but someone who ranks as higher or higher)that is 100 percent on our side. I believe the NDP and MP Craig Scott’s position is 100% percent genuine.
I know some of you don’t want to hear it but I personally think we should back off the NDP for know. I am very confident at the end of the day they will be on our side as will the Greens. As difficult as it might seem lets take a breather on this front. Instead we should be turning our fire toward the Canadian Bankers Association and Maura Drew-Lytle and try to smoke out in the next month or two whether they have any pull to force Mulcair to switch stances on FATCA.
Early this morning I sent an email to the Bankers Association with Mulcair’s comments and am currently awaiting a response.
I am happy that the strong response from MP Rankin, and Leader Mulcair was finally made and sent to people who had contacted them before. The substantial delay does still bother me since several had been repeatedly contacting various MP members of the NDP, and Mulcair with their concerns – sounding the alarm, since before we first learned of the notice on the Finance Dept. website (November 2012) that a FATCA IGA was in negotiation and expected to be ‘imminent’ – and many had been corresponding with various MPs since August 2011 when the first glimmers of the aggressive US extraterritorial crusade started to appear on the radar of those living in Canada. The BC NDP caucus and other individual NDP MPs took a laudable and unequivocal stand early on. MP Mai is very knowledgeable and his carefully crafted, forthright and informed questions in Parliament will not be forgotten. The letter from Peter Hogg, obtained by Green Party leader May via a FOI request has been available for months though. Several people forwarded it on to NDP MPs, made calls, and even met some to notify the party in person.
I am glad for this progress, but wonder why it has taken this long and this much effort to arrive at this point? What was the average Canadian citizen, voter, taxpayer and resident supposed to think when they did not get any substantive official party response for months? It has fallen on each individual to try and guess what will happen and prepare as best they can in continued uncertainty. We were left to our own devices as individuals to oppose the ‘unintended’ consequences of US extraterritorial power, manipulation and interests. In Canada it has fallen to IBS, Maple Sandbox and others to dispute and offset the propaganda being churned out by the resource rich US Treasury and IRS, and the lack of informed media coverage. We had no official representation in the US or in Canada, and the only formally constituted groups specifically opposing FATCA and CBT had no presence in Canada (ex. ACA, AARO, FAWCO, etc.).
The silence or lack of an official party position, and the lack of attention drawn to the repeated announcements of ongoing FATCA negotiations and ‘imminent’ IGA contributed to the impression that we were/are expendable citizens and permanent residents – a second class of Canadians – forever tainted by our accidental US parentage or US birthplace no matter whether we were born here, or naturalized or have lived here for decades as legal permanent residents and faithful compliant Canadian taxpayers. Subject to the extraterritorial whims of the US no matter whether we had automatically lost US citizenship decades ago, were born to Canadian parents or on Canadian soil, or naturalized and became duals. Canadians were and still are not being given the opportunity to have FATCA debated openly and democratically. No attention is being drawn to it in the Canadian media by our representatives in order to have that conversation with the wider Canadian public – who ALL will pay to have it implemented – via their taxes and their bank/institutional fees. And those who are/were lifelong supporters did not expect that coming from the NDP and might have anticipated less assistance coming from other parties with which we had less affinity.
Now, where is the Liberal Party’s official position?
And where does the Bloc stand on FATCA and US extraterritorial CBT? Taxation is a significant sovereignty issue in Quebec. (See footnote 22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement ) and http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2013/07/the-us-congress-and-fatca-reciprocity.html?showComment=1372976653608#c4810226082754084042
Good things are worth waiting for.
Tim, I agree with you, and am thankful for the letters from Leader Mulcair, and from MP Rankin. Thanks very much to Joe Smith, those that attended the recent events in Toronto, those that corresponded, and all those who contributed their efforts and assistance in getting us clarity on the NDP position.
I think that overall we have been feeling that the ordinary party member, constituent, taxpayer, citizen and permanent residents in Canada is being sidelined on an issue that would bind all of us to the US in an entirely new and draconian way forever, without any substantive democratic process and without open public debate.
We could only watch the shadows flicker on the wall and try to divine their activities and assign meaning to what we thought we could see in the tiny glimmers of light that sometimes pierced the gloom. That may be the reality of living in ‘democracies’, but it is very disheartening given what is at stake here.
Problem with waiting in general has been the unclear and potential repercussions for those directly affected. Particularly in terms of defending against US intransigence in clarifying what constitutes ‘reasonable cause’, and ‘willfulness’. People have had to put together their own defenses and their own strategies as individuals in the absence of enough information, and the ongoing manipulation, propaganda and threats issued by the US.
The chicken entrails didn’t clearly indicate to us what path to take.
I agree completely with Badger’s comments and analysis.
I do not particularly appreciate the comment “good things are worth waiting for,” especially not for two years (along with many others, and until the very recent Rankin and Mulcair replies, I’d been writing my NDP MP and the party leader’s office repeatedly on the FATCA issue for two years, with no meaningful or even any reply, except from Denise Savoie who wasn’t my MP). Given the very real fear, anger, and uncertainty so many people have been feeling over this issue, I think that comment to be somewhat inappropriate. Nor do I appreciate the implication I, at least, read into it, that it was a “gift” bestowed upon us, for which we should just be grateful.
However I see little point in continued flogging what I hope is now a dead horse (uncertainty over where the NDP caucus as a whole, not just the BC caucus, stands on FATCA). Though if I were in Toronto Centre, there is still no way I’d vote for McQuaig unless/until she publicly comes out four-square behind the Rankin and Mulcair statements. But happily for her, I don’t reside in Toronto Centre.
We know now where the NDP stands on this issue, and we’ve known for quite a while where the Greens and the Progressive Canadians stand. We’ll find out at some point where the current government stands on the issue, which I hope adheres to the analysis some of us have of the latest Flaherty letter.
I think we all would like to know where the Liberals stand on this issue, if in fact they have a stance.
I wrote to Justin Trudeau on October 4 requesting the Liberal Party clearly state its official position regarding FATCA and received a response today:
“I just wanted to thank you for contacting the office of Justin Trudeau, and voicing your opinion on this issue. As we are preparing our official response, the more input we receive from Canadians, and those directly affected, the better.
Thank you for writing.
Sincerely,
Kiel Dixon-Lawlor
Special Assistant, Operations and Outreach ”
So, Brockers and Sandboxers, let Justin know our opinions on FATCA
A clean sweep would be sweet …
BTW Justin got the same opinions from me that Flaherty and Mulcair got on August 29. Flaherty’s reply to me specifically addressed my August 29 letter; Mulcair’s reply didn’t mention any of my correspondence to him in the past, but I’ll take it as read that it might have had some influence, I hope.
Justin is taking his time, but then I guess he hasn’t been in his new job as long as Mulcair, certainly not as long as Flaherty (who also has a large ministerial correspondence unit to back him up), so I guess that’s somewhat understandable. Though his predecessors also have been getting emails from me for the past two years …
I have this quaint, antiquated notion that Members of Parliament were elected to represent all Canadians at some point, not just their own constituencies, and that even a mere “we got your email and we’ll consider your views” acknowledgement is the very minimum owed to me as a citizen in a democracy whose taxes pay their bloody salaries and eventual pensions. And I’ll never, ever, apologize for taking that position nor for being angry when it gets ignored.
Besides Justin and the CBA, perhaps Andrea Taylor of the Investment Industry Association of Canada should be contacted. She is the IIAC’s point person on FATCA. Her email address is:
ataylor@iiac.ca
The IIAC represents the major players in the Canadian investment industry.
… not to mention in Mulcair’s case, that not only am I a citizen and taxpayer, I was a member of his party and a long-time contributor to his party.
@badger –
Nothing is on the table yet (and I think the delay is a good sign: it implies a real negotiation).
The NDP seems to have been working to a deadline of the opening of Parliament, or a week or two before, to get itself sorted out on this issue (and probably many others). I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Remember all negotiations with the US have stopped due to the government shutdown. Nothing will startup with the US again until the government is reopened. Flaherty however is still scheduled to fly down to DC sometime mid week.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Canada-s-Shadow-Revenue-Mi-by-James-Jatras-Canada-us-Integration-131005-282.html?show=votes#allcomments
I thought I’d put this URL up again because it is pertinent to this thread. Jim just posted a comment on his opednews.com article (excellent as always) …
“Thanks to those who commented. Yes, FATCA is an attack on Canada’s sovereignty and on all other countries on which the Treasury Department is trying to impose this extraterritorial law. What’s worse, this aggression (sorry, but that’s the only word for it) is taking place for zero benefit to the public coffers. Fighting actual tax evasion is fine, so let’s do that, not put in place a dragnet violating the privacy of millions of people who aren’t even suspected of wrongdoing. That doesn’t work for “fighting terrorism,” either, and it shouldn’t be an excuse for FATCA.”
Tim, thanks for the update. Any speculation on what happens if the USG shutdown drags into the debt ceiling deadline? Some might think that is an impossibility but I think anything is really possible at this point. Pushing as they are towards their holiday breaks and then the new year, might it cause another delay in terms of FATCA start dates?
This is really not bad news and perhaps if the Liberals also come out strong against it, a real public debate can happen because I agree with the others that waiting is hard but waiting around in the relative dark with no direction and no sense that our govt and leaders give a shit is even worse. This is why transparency is so important.
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@ all
If you’re pleased with how the NDP is responding to this issue, there is ONE sure way to give positive re-enforcement and encouragement….
MAKE A DONATION!
You don’t have to be a member of a political party to make a donation. And the way political tax credits are structured gives you good leverage.
Tell them exactly WHY you are making the donation.
If you are so inclined, and it works for you at the local level, consider joining as a member as well.
BTW – consider making donation to the Green Party as well – and again tell them why!
NB: I’m not a fundraiser for the NDP (or any other political party).
“If you’re pleased with how the NDP is responding to this issue, there is ONE sure way to give positive re-enforcement and encouragement….”
Excuse me? WHY should I have to “reward” a party that was elected by citizens of Canada, to coax it to do the job that they were elected to do in the first place – which is PROTECT CANADIANS. That pretty much amounts to a bribe and extortion in reverse.
If the politician is in for own political and financial gain rather than to pursue the protection and the advancement of the people who are his electorate, then he’s just a “scum-sucking leech and an ambulance chaser”.
What will we see when the dust clears from their circular firing squad down there? Investors must be getting mighty nervous.
Here’s the notice on Flaherty in Washington: Background Telephone Briefing on Upcoming Meetings of Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors, IMF and World Bank in Washington
So let’s assume that through everyone’s efforts, Canada refuses to sign an IGA and does not participate in FATCA (although I don’t know what this means for banks who would lose 30% through withholding and to whom the IRS could go directly). One might assume that Canada could respond in kind by imposing certain penalties on the US. This aside, without a FATCA, those who are USP but not born in the US could probably avoid detection. But those born in the US would have this recorded on their Canadian passports and could be caught if they travel to the US or if the banks are directly involved with the IRS.My point is, how does refusal to sign an IGA help, if the US continues with CBT, along with requirements for annual filing and submitting FBARs, particularly if the IRS can go directly to banks?
Do not go to the US. That was always going to be an issue no matter what.
For the records:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 22, 2013
CANADIANS DESERVE ANSWERS ON FATCA
OTTAWA – Conservative Finance Minister Jim Flaherty must address growing public anxiety about the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), and secret negotiations over an Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) for the implementation of FATCA in Canada.
“A complete lack of transparency, communication and consultation on the part of the Conservatives has exacerbated fears among those who have serious concerns about FATCA,” said NDP pensions critic Murray Rankin (Victoria). “Negotiations are being held behind closed doors while Canadians remain in the dark as to the integrity of their personal banking information.”
Reports suggest that if implemented, an IGA may require Canadian banks, investment funds and other financial institutions to disclose annually to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS) information on accounts held by American citizens, including dual citizens in Canada. Concerns have been raised that such a system could potentially violate existing Canadian privacy laws.
“Canada cannot accept an agreement that violates Canadians’ rights,” said Rankin. “I am asking that the government acknowledge the very legitimate public concerns about the FATCA, bring transparency to this process and inform Parliamentarians on the state of negotiations as soon as possible.”
Rankin sent a letter to Flaherty outlining several concerns about FATCA and demanding urgent action.
For more information, please contact:
Kiavash Najafi, Press Secretary, 613-852-6186 or kiavash.najafi@parl.gc.ca
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