Does anyone know of cases where “US persons” at risk from the IRS have run into trouble entering the US? Have any of you had a bad experience?
The last time I entered the US was nearly three years ago and I was seriously hassled at the border crossing (we were driving) because I did not have a US passport. I have not dared try to enter the US since then. I do know a few people who seem to have come and gone without any questions asked.
Thank you.
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Thank you for all your kind words and thoughts regarding my sister.
Again, surprised, I crossed into the US on January 26, at Douglas, BC by car with my husband, to visit family and my critically ill sister (she has since passed away). There was nothing but the standard questions, and there was no interest in my US birthplace in my Canadian passport. Indeed, we had more questioning from the Canadian CBSA employee upon return to Canada. (A trainee, I believe, because she had a supervisor sitting with her in the booth).
I’ll be doing one more trip sometime next week for the funeral, crossing into Port Angeles by boat, and I’ll keep you posted.
(YIKES to Jeffry Gilbert’s experience above. That is truly frightening).
My last entry to the US, arriving at LAX with my family of four, all US citizens with US passports, the US Immigration officer asked us with furrowed brow, “What is your purpose in coming to the United States?” My husband responded, with a bit too much cockiness, “Why do American citizens need a ‘purpose’ in coming to our own country?” The officer gave him such a dose of stink-eye I thought we were going to be pulled into a side room and waterboarded. So I piped in, “To visit my aging parents.” The officer looked us up and down, even my 8-year-old daughter, then finally passed us our passports and said, “Welcome home.” We all responded with the silent treatment. Some welcome!
Story about UK citizen born prematurely to UK parents on brief visit to the US. According to the press articles, the premature baby had to obtain a US passport in order to leave the US to fly home to the UK – and had to wait to be well enough to have his feeding and breathing tube removed long enough for his US passport photo to be taken. Absurd that the US State Department would insist that a premature baby born accidently in the US, in precarious health must have his photo taken without the medical assistance that was helping to keep him alive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11399592/Baby-born-prematurely-in-New-York-finally-flies-home-to-UK.html
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/brit-premies-dramatic-nyc-birth-story-has-happy-110547272992.html
And of course, now he is a US taxpayer, and his UK birthday savings will be subject to FBAR, FATCA and US extraterritorial CBT.
I commented on this too yesterday, badger and added the million dollar Canadian / US dual born in Hawaii late last year: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/media-and-blog-articles-open-for-comments/comment-page-118/#comment-5542480. Hope the parents are soon educated about their new US citizens’ responsibilities going forward.
I flew out of Toronto to Florida Feb. 3rd and was quite anxious about customs questions, but didn’t get anything at all. I had a copy of letter from U.S. Embassy re waiting for my CLN with me. BUT, I have wonderful news and terrible news. I received my CLN this past week!! Registered letter arrived. My date was July 5, 2014 that I went to embassy to relinquish. My terrible news and I would appreciate opinions/guidance in what to do is this: Filed in 2012 OVDI. IRS finally responded to it in November 2014. We sent all that they asked for. They said to my accountant all looked ok. Then in January 2015 my accountant heard from them again and they now require all bank statements from 2005-2012!!! And copies of form 8891 for 2005-2010. I had sent all that to IRS Austin Texas in August 2012, but in my naivete I didn’t make copies of what I sent. I know, I know, so stupid. I have my registered receipt when I sent it. But my question is what to do about ALL bank statements from that far back? I haven’t contacted the bank yet. I’m just reeling about all this. Don’t know where to start. Has anyone asked banks for past statements for so far back? Cost involved? Any help /thoughts are appreciated.
@ Swanee
Oh no! I can’t believe they would do this. Others with more experience will jump in with good advice about bank statements, I hope. However re: 8891 … WHY? It’s not even required anymore.
http://hodgen.com/the-ultimate-rrsp-and-the-irs-essay/
Have you considered opting out of OVDI and switching to Streamlined? It sounds as if you should have never been put into OVDI in the first place because that program is designed for criminal tax evaders. They are asking for a form that (as of 2014) the IRS itself has decided isn’t even necessary anymore (Form 8891) because an RRSP is not a vehicle for tax evasion. Besides you already sent them. Its their problem if they lost them.
Under Streamlined they don’t ask for bank statements. Just the current year return (2014) plus three back years (2011,12,13) in your case, plus 6 years of FBAR. You have probably already sent in everything necessary for Streamlined submission. With a little luck you could also get Form 8854 finished off as well. If necessary, you can apply for an extension to almost the end of 2015 so you can get it all together and be done with it once and for all time.
The OVDI goons are simply punishing you with useless requests for stuff that is very hard to get and totally unnecessary. They want to draw it out and make it as painful for you as possible. The IRS should be ashamed of itself.
@Swannee
Way back in 2011 when preparing to enter OVDI, I also had to come up with a lot of bank statements that got misplaced during a couple of moves. The bank (CIBC) wanted to charge me but when I said I needed them for the IRS, they dropped the fee. But that was then…
Yes, curious too as to why you haven’t opted out into Steamlined, not that that would relieve you of the necessity of providing the IRS with your missing bank statements, at this point. The IRS agent that handled our case at one point asked us what the source of funds were for our FBARs, which sent us into a real tailspin. Could he really be asking that we go through each line of every bank deposit over eight years and state their source? My attitude was, you have the statements, look through them and if any one of them piques your curiosity, I’d be more than happy to try and recall what the source was. In the end, I instructed our accountant to tell him that our income was that of any normal family’s such as inheritance, home sale, insurance settlements, etc. That answer seemed to satisfy him, thankfully, as surely we had nothing to hide by having come forward under our own volition and voluntarily paying tax on our home in Canada!
Unfortunately, if the IRS misplaces your stuff you are still on the hook to replace it at your cost. End of story. They “lost” one of our tax returns, had us pay the cost of couriering another only to find it later when they looked a little harder.
Oh, and when our accountant said that we were concerned about the mounting accounting fees just going from OVDI to Steamlined he said that with the amount of time he’s spent on our file, he said he wished he too was getting paid by the hour.
Nice.
Swanee, More questions than answers I’m afraid. What were you doing in OVDI 2012? Were you a minnow or possibly a whale? have you sent them enough money to keep them happy, or do you hope for a refund , or possibly they will ask for more.
Depending on your circumstances, you could try to comply, you could say their request is unreasonable and ask them to tone it down or finally you could say their request is unreasonable and you’ve had enough. After all you have your precious CLN. You could remind them of that. OVDI was originally meant for whales who needed to come back into compliance.
@swanee,
also, you might try contacting the Taxpayer Advocate;
http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/about-us/learn-more-eligibility
I note that the TAS itself isn’t taking its own advice about service to ‘international taxpayers’, as the map of ‘local TAS offices’ shows only those in the US, and no specific contact no. is listed for those outside the US. I don’t know if this # works from outside the US; 1-877-777-4778 ?
You can call a US location and explain that you live ‘abroad’ – outside the US. The ‘international’ contact info used to be a number in Puerto Rico I think – which cost someone I know a considerable amount on hold, and then speaking to an agent long distance. I suggest calling a TAS office inside the US and trying to get a TAS agent familiar with international tax issues to call you back. Remind them that usually the tollfree numbers the IRS gives out do not work from outside the US – you will need a direct number instead.
With a reference back to Petros’ (where are you anyway?) article about civil forfeiture, I can tell you this story.
My next door neighbour, also US tainted (birth), was crossing into the US last month at a land crossing and was asked the standard question about whether she (and husband) had anything worth more than $10,000 in their car. She answered no. They were still invited into the building for whatever questioning, but on the way in, the same woman who sent them there informed her that “If we find $10,000 we’re keeping it.” OK, this may have nothing to do with her US smell, but it sure shows an attitude.
Such a nice welcome. I wonder why I don’t travel there.
@PierreD That is absolutely SHOCKING. It makes me all the more relieved that I renounced. How horrific: legalised robbery.
@Swanee. The more I think about the OVDI predicament you now find yourself in, the madder I get. Of course, I know nothing about your personal finances but I can tell what I would be doing if I found myself in your shoes. I would tell the IRS (not ask them, tell them) that I am opting out of OVDI because it was a mistake being put in that program in the first place. OVDI has guaranteed penalties which you do not deserve. If they go for it, fine. You can finish things up in Streamlined. Do not send them money.
If they don’t agree I would just flat out refuse to send them anything and tell them to go pound sand. They already have everything they need to close the case. What they are doing is abuse of the first magnitude and must not be allowed to proceed. You might need to be prepared to never set foot in the US again. If you can live with that your position is actually pretty strong.
If your present accountant is the one who suggested you enter OVDI fire them immediately and get someone who actually knows what they are doing. You pay the fees, but they are really acting as an agent for the IRS and are benefiting financially from the agony they have created for you.
By the way, as your expatriation date is July 5, 2014, your 2014 tax return and FBAR only need to cover the first half of the year. Beyond that is none of the IRS business.
@PierreD
The customs person was a-hole… they take it but u can file to get it back & they make u sweat it out like u are a drug dealer… it takes months but u will get your money back. I was crossing customs once… I had like $100 in singles.. it was my kid’s cash that they were going to use on this trip… customs person thought they hit the jackpot… I got the lecture about carrying more then 10K… they made my kid cry… I barely had a couple hundred in cash… I tried to file a complaint with Customs when I got home & I was refused… he say/she say situation they said… Then I got another lecture about carrying cash… I hung the phone up mid lecture…. I maybe flagged… umm.. before I hung up… basically said… f*** u…. Yes.. yes… bad parent… sigh
Snowbirds can access a record of how much time they’ve spent in the US here:
https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/request.html%3bjsessionid=pxYgSTPC2YvbN1pLfJNRZSyWs59nkBNfmz0PpD8prCDcGQ3096CT%21731713051
@Bubblebustin, thanks. I thought about trying the website until I read the terms and conditions, which include these:
“There is no expectation of privacy when you use this website. By accessing and using this website, you understand and consent to the terms and conditions set forth in this notice.
…
“The access and use of this website is subject to monitoring by DHS for administrative, law enforcement, or criminal investigative purposes, inquiries into alleged wrongdoing or misuse, and to ensure proper performance of applicable security features and procedures. DHS may monitor the access or use of this website without further notice. You may not process classified national security information on this website.”
After reading those, I’m pretty sure DHS is recording the IP addresses of people who use the web site.
Yes, AnonAnon, be wary of any portals to Mordor.
I thought about entering but don’t know if they’d be collecting data on me there as I only use my US passport when entering the US now. It appears to only provide info on “non-immigrant aliens”.
@Bubblebustin, @AnonAnon I accessed the site and used it to print out a list of my crossings into the US over the past year on my Canadian passport. I am a self-relinquisher and consider the record support for my claim that I am no longer a US citizen (the Vancouver consular officer said otherwise). So, from my standpoint, your find was helpful and appreciated. Thank you for posting your find Bubblebustin.
You’re welcome, BC Doc. I wonder if it rates its own post. I may have to check it out myself.
@Bubblebustin
I think you may have found a gold nugget.
Say I relinquished my US citizenship by naturalizing elsewhere.
My flights into the US have been on my “new” passport.
I don’t have a CLN yet or don’t believe I should have to ask the US government for permission to officially leave.
My European bank is demanding proof that I’ve given up my USC since they can see my place of birth on my passport.
Waiting time to obtain a CLN is one year plus $2,400 “servicing fee.”
Solution: print a record from the Homeland Security website that documents you entering the US as a non-national. Show them that plus a copy of your non-US citizenship certificate as “proof” that you are no longer a USC.
You mean that because the US requires its citizens to enter (and exit) with a US passport, it supports your argument that the US no longer recognizes you as a citizen?
@ bubblebustin
I have often wondered what happened to my old green card when I send it back. It was received by someone at USCIS but nobody did the paperwork (basically affixing a stamp to the I-407 and returning it to me in the stamped envelope I provided). I wonder if it was passed along — for a price — to perhaps an illegal Mexican immigrant? Could this hypothetical product of my imagination be crossing the US-Mexico border in my name? I don’t even know if this is possible without more skullduggery like getting other false documents like a Mexican passport. I need to slap my imagination silly and tell it to cease wondering. The damn thing’s gone. I know not where. I never will know.
Who knows, EmBee, I suppose anything’s possible. I’m sorry you won’t likely ever find closure. You may find it interesting that the IRS asked my husband if he had anything to do with a business in one particular southern state. Apparently someone there has the same SSN. My husband’s SSN had been dormant since the ’60’s until we began filing in 2011. The IRS didn’t allude of any wrong doing on anyone’s behalf, and even said that sometimes there are duplicate SSN’s. I’m not buying it. Illegal immigration is a big part of the US economy.
I wonder how poor Swanee is doing? Those OVDI leeches seem to want to suck the life source out of their victims.
@BC_Doc brilliant
I too am a “self-relinquisher ” and if American citizens are only susposed to return to the home land on an American passport then according to their rules I should not be allowed to cross into the homeland on my Canadian passport unless I were not an American citizen. which I have done on many occasions….hmmmm
I will be printing out that file as well and keeping it on hand
thank you