Does anyone know of cases where “US persons” at risk from the IRS have run into trouble entering the US? Have any of you had a bad experience?
The last time I entered the US was nearly three years ago and I was seriously hassled at the border crossing (we were driving) because I did not have a US passport. I have not dared try to enter the US since then. I do know a few people who seem to have come and gone without any questions asked.
Thank you.
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I too think it is outrageous. Fingerprinted and pictured like a criminal.
I won’t be going back, EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@MonaLisa
I would like to add thank you for sending the report. You are so brave. I hope your visit goes well.
@Mona Lisa and Pacifica, thank you for letting us know about this so we can be prepared psychologically when/if it happens to us as well. @Mona Lisa, I too applaud your strength.
Since when is it sufficient to detain someone simply because they choose to be solely the citizen of the country they work, live, are married in, longterm?
Since when is it legal for the US to ask for the REASON for exercising the RIGHT to renounce (see *Expatriation Act of 1868)? At that point, the person is no longer a US citizen – which the CLN attests to. It was done and dusted.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_Act_of_1868 …”Expatriation Act of 1868 was an act of the 40th United States Congress regarding the right to renounce one’s citizenship. It states that “the right of expatriation is a natural and inherent right of all people” and “that any declaration, instruction, opinion, order, or decision of any officers of this government which restricts, impairs, or questions the right of expatriation, is hereby declared inconsistent with the fundamental principles of this government”.[1]. Its intent was to counter other countries’ claims that U.S. citizens owed them allegiance; it was an explicit rejection of the feudal common law principle of perpetual allegiance.[2]…..”…..
And why did they have to ‘verify’ the situation despite the CLN?
@northernstar, “Fingerprinted and pictured like a criminal.”
This is the case for any “alien”, resident or non resident. People with green cards or visas.
Yes, it feels like a criminal. When I asked them why they needed to do it every time, since I travel every year, sometimes multiple times, the border agent’s answer was that they need to make sure that it’s really you. You can thank post 9/11 paranoia for that. I personally think they overreacted with all the airport measures, removing shoes and stuff. But to their excuse, who can say what would have been the reaction of any other country if they had been attacked in the same way. Hopefully in the end, reason prevails, even if you suffer the inconvenience of being questioned. But yes, that doesn’t make the US a friendly destination. That, plus the risk of being bankrupted by medical bills if something happens while you’re vacationing here and they loose lots of tourists.
@ Badger
“And why did they have to ‘verify’ the situation despite the CLN?” Good question.
For harassment purposes. This is all so stupid. I don’t see how it even benefits the US, who these people are working for. In the interest of the public good, there’s some legitimate reasons to question a person entering a country — but instead they waste resources detaining bona fide travellers just because they renounced.
As I replied to monalisa at Maple Sandbox:
We will see the audacity, the “power” of US border guards as in “You are a US citizen until we say you aren’t.” Remember that one?
You can’t win with these people. Everyone is treated with suspicion, even if you do it by the book. I presented my US passport on a more recent trip over the border and was asked why I would rather live in Canada.
US border services better get used to people travelling with CLN’s. It’s new to them, so there will be those us in the beginning of their learning curve who’ll be affected the most. Thanks Monalisa (and Pacifica) for sharing you experience with us.
Re fingerprinting/photographing aliens entering the US. Canadians are exempt from that (maybe this exemption comes from the WHTI — don’t know).
I recall when the US started doing it, it was on the news that Brasil retaliated by fingerprinting only Americans entering Brasil and the Americans were upset about it. Sounded like turn about is fair play to me. (Don’t know if Brasil still does it or if they gave in to American pressure to stop. I hope not.)
They look at everyone as a potential terrorist.
@noone
I know what you mean about the cost of medical treatment down there. My son got a fish hook caught in his leg while we were vacationing in Florida, and the visit to the hospital to have it removed cost $700! Good thing we had extended medical coverage. I wouldn’t travel there even on a day trip without it.
@Mona Lisa 1776… my heart goes out to you…. thank you for sharing the experience which I hope has reassured you that you have done the right hting to preserve your British family and safeguard your future…………… I hope the rest of your stay is better.
My son lives in UK.
He says they scanned his fingerprints and took his picture when he went last year to the states, while he traveled on a US passport. He says they do it to everyone when they enter the US.
@northernstar
“My son lives in UK. He says they scanned his fingerprints and took his picture when he went last year to the states, while he traveled on a US passport”.
While travelling on a US passport? That is really strange. My wife and kids, all Americans never get their fingerprints or picture taken. They normally only do that to non citizens.
@Noone.
They did it to him. He has no criminal record.
I’ve never had this happen to me. Maybe they randomly do it to USC’s travelling on US passports.
@Noone
When did your family travel. He says they scanned and pictured every person on the plane he came on.
@bubblebustin.
you were coming from Canada and he was coming from UK.
Actually, I came from Mexico too. Did your son mean everyone from the UK?
@bubblebustin
Everyone who was on the UK plane to the USA…all had been scanned and photo’d on arrival
@Northernstar
Sorry, only read your first comment.
Weird, my last international flight was from the UK too. Only me – green card holder – had to go through that, as usual. Not the rest of my American family.
@pacifica777, sounds like another reason to not spend tourist dollars in the US!
I will NEVER travel to America again. EVER.
I`m not really interested anyway!
( And other countries have been bombed- Spain, Germany, England. Nobody has created a police state because of it.)
@To all, I really appreciate all the empathy and supportive comments. I believe that more and more former citizens will be questioned more closely when attempting to cross, especially those with US birthplaces. I thus feel somewhat resigned to having to put up with this (and the fingerprints, photos, requests for CLN, etc.) It just goes with the territory.
However, now that I’m in Delaware and among family, I feel completely safe. People here are good and friendly. It’s just those damn borders. I’m determined to not let it get me down or put me off continuing to make future visits to see family or old childhood haunts.
I feel quite embittered that, as collateral damage, I’ve had to become exiled from my homeland. It’s just not right. I am still certain that I made a wise decision though it really was a Sophie’s Choice. It’s emotional torture. Part of me will also always regret it and wonder if I renounced in haste though realized that the stakes were too high to risk putting it off. It shouldn’t have to be this way, all these ultimatums…
Anyhow, the point is that I’m determined not to let all this ruin my life. It’s just officialdon and bureaucracy. In some ways, I’m already used to it, living in the UK. They too have become an Orwellian society. The way I see it, what I did was an act of self-defense.
I feel similarly about governments’ often draconian view towards recreational drug users. I feel that governments can be predatory and persecute those whom they lable as misfits.
I have grown wary though It shouldn’t have to be this way…but I’m not going to let a bit of rough treatment stop me from visiting family because it would be even more of a victory for Voldemort if I did; I have to be thick-skinned and not take it personally.
@monalisa1776
So sorry to hear about the ordeal the Americans put you through. My suspicion is that it’s currently a matter of chance whether the border guards look at your birthplace and an interrogation ensues as a result. It’s completely arbitrary.
When I visited the USA last year, they took fingerprints and pictures of all foreigners upon entry, i.e. it had nothing to do with renunciation. Are you suggesting that this was otherwise in your case?
Yeah, I cannot believe that non Americans would tolerate being fingerprinted when arriving as tourists. I’ve never heard anyone complaining about it. It is so weird that the police state is so well accepted by all those affected. I would not want to travel to Greece or Spain or Thailand or anany such place voluntarily if I were to be fingerprinted.
Brazil is cool. They also have a unique charge for US citizens tourist visas, meant to be reciprocal.
Undercover Norwegian customs officers are now patrolling the bus and train stations hundreds of miles from the border and stopping anyone they want for questioning. They got me once alone in the bus station parking lot, I told him I wouldn’t talk to him, which he wasn’t pleased about. Then I told him that he smelled like he had been drinking, which he liked even less (because he had been).
This week I saw them doing what they do best—plucking out the darkskins in the bus station and questioning them.
The same is going on in Stockholm.