Does anyone know of cases where “US persons” at risk from the IRS have run into trouble entering the US? Have any of you had a bad experience?
The last time I entered the US was nearly three years ago and I was seriously hassled at the border crossing (we were driving) because I did not have a US passport. I have not dared try to enter the US since then. I do know a few people who seem to have come and gone without any questions asked.
Thank you.
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I visited the US for a short time recently after a five year absence. There were no questions about my Canadian passport showing a US birthplace. I had my CLN along (a copy, not the original of course) but did not need to use it.
Article from the SPIEGEL (German): Hindernisse an der Grenze: Was Sie bei der Einreise in die USA wirklich erwartet
http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/einreise-in-usa-so-sollten-sie-sich-am-flughafen-verhalten-a-1047517.html
Once the lawsuit in Canada is won, the next step will be to open a bank brashly named Non-FATCA Bank; which will operate first in Canada only and offer accounts in Canadian dollars. Operating in euros might require a correspondent bank to deal with money transfers and the selection might not be wide. All euro-zone countries have FATCA IGA’a except Andorra and Monaco, and neither Monaco nor Andorra has a central bank through which cheques can clear between FATCA and non-FATCA banks. (Central banks are government institutions and thus exempt from FATCA.)
In-your-face Non-FATCA Bank will eventually open a branch in El Salvador or Ecuador, both of which use USA dollars and therefore can clear cheques in USA dollars. Neither El Salvador nor Ecuador has a FATCA IGA.
Dominican Republic has a “pending” FATCA IGA and I might be interested in opening a currency exchange business there.
I am, so far as I know, not a US person according to the invasive definitions that the US uses to claim citizens of other countries as their chattel, since I was born to a foreign diplomat posted in the US. Until recently border agents have accepted this explanation of my US birthplace on my Canadian passport. Recently I was ordered by a border agent to get a US passport whether or not I liked it. When I explained that I had worked for 5 years in the US and my employer had been told by the State Department that I was not a US citizen because my father had been on the diplomatic “blue list,” the agent told me that the State Dept. didn’t know anything, and that if I didn’t get a US passport I would not be allowed in again. I’ve seen a lawyer who has given me a letter stating why I’m not a “US person,” with documentation attached. I hope this works. My worry is that crossing the border is being used by the IRS to collect data so that they can tax more and more people.
Beyond going to the US once or twice a year for a conference, I have no interest in the US and no connections with it.
As I explained in a post just now, I’m not a US person, since y father was a foreign diplomat when I was born. However, in recently crossing the border from Canada I was “warned.” I now have a letter from a lawyer explaining my situation. She thinks this will work. Will it not?
She did say, however, that Obama was reconsidering the 14th Amendment exemption of diplomatic children from US citizenship, and could make this retroactive (by over 60 years?). If so, a post earlier in this string (by Blaze) refers to a renunciation of existing citizenship that was previously part of the naturalization process in becoming a Canadian citizen. I became a Canadian citizen in 1970 and renounced my original citizenship. I had no idea I could ever be considered a US citizen, and my original country did not and still does not allow dual citizenship anyway. Would this renunciation cover US citizenship, should it ever be retroactively imputed to me in the future? How does one get this renunciation.
BTW TD has not asked me for a CLN, and has so far accepted my explanation of diplomatic immunity. They have not asked me for documentation, though I can provide it.
That border agent was the exception. The vast majority of them say nothing or occasionally will say in a non threatening manner-” you can get back your US citizenship if you want. “
@Not a US Person: All bets are off when you accidentally encounter an idiot. This is true during a road rage incident and it is also true at the US border. Carry on as you always have and hope you never see that particular idiot again. Never hurts to have a lawyer letter as backup, however, if you ever get to the point where you have to produce that letter it might further antagonize the border goons.
(P.S. The US government couldn’t care less what the policy of your original country is/was regarding dual citizenship. The US government has its own rules and ignores all other rules. Fortunately, in your case this is a non-issue because according to the US rules you are not a US citizen.)
@Not a US Person
There are many reports of people being bullied by the border apes as you’ve described, but I’ve not heard of any yet who were actually refused entry into the USA. In other words, they’re empty threats. Probably the best approach if you’re confronted with it again is just to play dumb and tell them you’ll get a US passport right away. Then just forget about it.
on our last trip across the border almost 3 years ago now i had the pleasure of entering into a discussion about why i was returing to the land of milk and honey on a canadian passport and not an american one. it seemed to be a bit touch and go as to would or would not i be allowed to enter.
the guards final comment was ” i know xx (our destination town) has a post office. you make that your first stop and get your passport application”
my wife and i nodded in complete agreement and then proceeded to this town
our first stop was the grocery store for a six pack of beer which we then proceeded to go to the beach and enjoy.
when we got home we found out about fatca and have never nor will we ever set foot in that country again.
Mettleman: Hope that beer was nice and cold!
Maz: “All bets are off when you accidentally encounter an idiot.” So excruciatingly true. And they are not rare.
Not a US person: indeed being born in the US to diplomatic parents is the (only?) exception to birthright citizenship. It boggles the mind that border agents would not know this, a fairly common and classic occurrence. It is the exception to automatic citizenship. Unless, of course, you did apply and obtain a passport; that would be rich. But your situation is intriguing. Where I live banks want CLNs. Something you couldn’t get, obviously. Hence the lawyer letter.
You know if the US actually enforced its laws at their border, we might not have the situation we have today where non-residents are only now finding out about their tax filing obligations through FATCA. Imagine the press and increased awareness around US citizenship should Canadian shoppers be denied entry into the US!
Funny though that their assumption that you are a US citizen is the reason why they can’t deny you entry to the US, with or without a US passport.
Right on, bubblebustin.
Those U.S. laws were, in the past, never or rarely enforced. How hypocritical that now we non-residents of the U.S. find out the law that wasn’t known and that the law is the law is the law – still only sometimes — when it suits whatever the U.S. wants it to.
“I note that the TAS itself isn’t taking its own advice about service to ‘international taxpayers’, as the map of ‘local TAS offices’ shows only those in the US, and no specific contact no. is listed for those outside the US. I don’t know if this # works from outside the US; 1-877-777-4778 ?”
Skype now allows you to make calls from Skype to US toll free phone numbers for free. I used it during the past year for some calls to IRS, Social Security Administration, and Skype’s owner Microsoft.
One IRS employee said she was going to give me instructions on what to do, I said “OK, I’m writing” and she disconnected me. I really was writing not recording, but I guess they don’t want anyone to take too much care to obey whatever the instructions were going to be.
When I called a phone number that Microsoft told me to phone, it wasn’t about Skype but naturally I used Skype to make it free. After 30 minutes on hold, 10 minutes of discussion, and 200 minutes on hold, the call was cut off. I don’t know if the 4 hour limit was set by Skype or by Microsoft’s own operations.
For family reasons I recently made another land entry to the US on my Canadian passport showing my US birthplace. No questions were raised at the border, and although I had a copy of my CLN I didn’t have to use it. But that’s it for a while for travel to the US. What with my general PO-ed attitude toward the US for how badly it is still treating its remaining citizens outside the US, its gun culture, the unfavourable currency exchange rate, and the cost of medical insurance to visit there, I’m not interested in visiting again any time soon.
@bubblebustin, re; “…….their assumption that you are a US citizen is the reason why they can’t deny you entry to the US, with or without a US passport.”
Well the US had given me trouble in the past on occasion despite me showing them my original raised stamp US birth certificate before the US passport became mandatory (the only reason why I eventually had to get one). I shouldn’t have had to answer questions like exactly where I was going in the US and what my purpose was, or on one trip; why I wasn’t driving my own car (I was a passenger and not the driver, with a group of Canadians travelling to a US city where they were students and I was along to sightsee).
The US has never welcomed me ‘home’ on my few trips there. The best I got was perhaps a slightly less level of border surliness. Once my US born mother and I (as a minor) were travelling there for school, and we were pulled over for a search of our car which merely had clothes and books, etc. We both had US birth certificates and my parent had lots of substantiating documents. So, what was all that about? Was that how the US delivered some of those mythical and elusive special ‘benefits’ of US citizenship to us?
I was “accidentally” born in a US border state almost 50 years ago when my natural-born Canadian parents were there visiting friends and my mother gave birth to me prematurely. I was back in Canada with my parents in a matter of weeks and other than that have never lived there a day in my life. I consider myself to be as Canadian as Stompin Tom. Of course, my Canadian passport (which I did not need for most of my life) shows a damned US place of birth.
I rarely travel to the US (maybe a half dozen times in the last 10 years), but the last time I did (about 6 months ago) I was hassled for about 15 minutes by a US customs agent at an airport about not having a US passport. Eventually a second agent (much more reasonable) came over and I told him my story. He told his colleague that he did not see any issue and that I could be sent on my way. The first guy then (reluctantly) told me to go on my way. I have to say the good cop/bad cop thing seemed almost surreal.
My question is this: does anyone out there know of any instance where someone travelling on a Canadian passport with a US birthplace has actually been denied entry into the US? I can put up with the hassle (in fact this is the only significant hassle I have ever experienced). I have decided to stay completely below the radar on this, just live the way I always have and wait for common sense to eventually prevail. But, if I were to hear of someone actually being turned back, I might have to re-evaluate my thinking.
In conversation with a U.S. consular person recently, I was told that U.S. Border personnel had been instructed to get tougher on persons entering with Canadian passports showing U.S. birthplaces. So what has been their practice may change, with those individuals regularly “pulled over”. Nice country.
@Pilgrim
Great, now Canadians can feel like Ukrainians with Russian birthplaces, Palestinians with Israeli birthplaces, Germans with East German birthplaces, South Koreans with North Korean birthplaces or Americans with ANY other birthplaces. Why, we’re all just one big happy family!
I’m cross-posting this comment from Joe Zinga which should also be captured on this thread:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/09/21/robert-wood-irs-and-fbi-track-americans-who-renounce-citizenship-why-is-fbi-list-longer/comment-page-1/#comment-6600139
Joe Zinga says
September 23, 2015 at 9:14 pm
Has anyone had difficulty renewing a Nexus card after relinquishing US citizenship. My spouse was born in the US and became a Canadian citizen in 1980. We both acquired nexus cards in 2010 following an application and interview. They have both come up for renewal. Mine was renewed with no interview (always a Canadian). My spouse who relinquished formally in 2013 and who has a CLN back dated to 1980 has not as yet had her Nexus renewed because she must go for an interview. Ordinarily on reapplication, interviews are for reasons of some security risk, but we wondered if it might be because of the relinquishment, which is in fact the only change since the original granting of the Nexus card. Has anyone had a similar experience? What could the reasons be for an interview? We are both elderly retired who have spent 2-3 months in Maui every year since 2002 without incident. Thanks for any insights that can be provided.
That’s why once I get Canadian citizenship and renounce my US, I will get an Ontario Enhanced Driver’s License for travel into the US. EDLs don’t show place of birth, but they do say that you’re a Canadian citizen.
And if I legally change my name before getting the EDL, there may be a chance that my old name and citizenship won’t come up (unless they link databases far more than we suspect).
FWIW,
from Phil Hodgen’s blog:
http://hodgen.com/harassment-of-expatriate-by-uscis-reported/
“Harassment of expatriate by USCIS reported
Today I received an email from a correspondent who is a recent expatriate. He reports a sobering experience at the hands of our trusted servants at the border…….”…………..
@Badger, I dread having to go to the USA again, but at some point won’t really have a choice.
I was talking to a fellow Brocker about this a while back and she made a suggestion to get an enhanced Driver’s license(for those situations where driving is actually feasible) which does not show place of birth, but not sure if this really is a solution.
A few days ago I entered the US on my Canadian passport (I’m an undocumented relinquisher) and the border guard noticed my US birthplace. I know this for a fact because he asked if my birth town was in Texas. I replied no, it was in Michigan. He then said’ “Cool. OK, you can go now”. This is the second time they have noticed and commented about my birthplace in a conversational way without making an issue of it. I hope my luck continues to hold.
I had my relinquishment appointment in September, so no CLN as yet.
I entered the US last week by car south of Montreal. I had been ready to reply that my CLN was in process but to my surprise no comment was made. In fact, it was the easiest border crossing ever – I was only asked where I was going, for how long and what I was bringing in. No comment on my US birth place on my Canadian passport.
All this to say that my relinquishment appointment was not flagged in the border guards’ computer.
“All this to say that my relinquishment appointment was not flagged in the border guards’ computer.”
I bet it means that your relinquishment appointment WAS flagged in the border guard’s computer. Did the guard stamp an entry stamp in your passport? Does it have an expiry date? Does it say class NC or B2?