CNN Money — Banks lock out Americans over new tax law
Americans, take your money elsewhere!
That’s what banks around the world have been telling their U.S. customers, as they try to avoid having to comply with a new tax law due to come into force next year.
… only a small sample of banks that are refusing to do business with Americans, who now face a “banking lockout problem,” said Marylouise Serrato, executive director of American Citizens Abroad.
Here is my fave comment on that piece:
txgeekygirl LR9099
• a day ago
as in ? they can always run to here in the event of world calamity? IF they choose to live abroad and not live amongst the services,even when not needed,its a deal that they support the nation in taxes as well as spirit. IF they live somewhere to avoid their monetary tithe, what does that say about their American spirit? What is the wealth of their heart? Just be honest.
LMAO! Expats are not being double-taxed! It’s a TITHE. Well, that makes it okay then. And explains so much. It’s all an American spiritual thing.
You know, America. That place we all run to in times of world calamity.
That this Christianist American pseudo-spiritual bs comes from a Texan should surprise pretty much no one. But it’s certainly a first in terms of American override on sense, reality and fact where the whole FATCA things is concerned. I have never heard my “obligations” to the homeland described in such a way and hope to never again.
I loved the commentary made on CNN Money article a few days ago (http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/04/news/citizenship-us-tax/index.html?iid=EL) paraphrased as follows:
North Korean citizens enjoy more freedoms and privileges when outside of North Korea than American citizens outside of America do.
Just a question:
If US consulate and embassy staff around the world get shut out of local banking services as a result of FATCA, will their complaints perhaps be listened to by Treasury? Could this work in our favor?
Or do they have access to special banking arrangements that I just don’t know about?
Rose, good question. If they are just out of the country for temp assignments, they might still have access to banking in the US and then it doesn’t really matter. It’s my understanding that consulates employ locals though for things like security and secretarial stuff and being local, they don’t need to worry. But there could well be arrangements we don’t know about for the USC’s or perhaps those that “go native” are just as out of luck as everyone else.
@Rose, once when I spoke with the embassy, they stated that I was one of the last Americans who still had a bank account! I doubt that the US would give them special treatment on the matter, but anything is possible.
I’m not going to comment on very many U.S. based articles anymore. I cannot abide the comment section, the willful ignorance, the hubris, the pay up’s and shut ups. The insanity of the conversation going round and round down a drain with nothing learned by anyone there. This journey has taught me well, that I am truly not one of them. I’m also going to stop describing myself as an American abroad. Might as well stop now as soon I will not fit that category. They just really, really will never get it. Some of the remarks are so ignorant as to almost induce pity. When I think back about the lively and diverse political discussions around the kitchen table we had when I was growing up I feel great sadness. Discourse in the U.S. has really come to this?
Nothing is a victory re: this. What will happen is that other (Western) countries will adopt the same FACTA rules for their own citizens abroad, then dealings will become government to government, where the governments mandate their own country’s banks turn over foreigners’ bank account info to them–and they (the government) shares this info with other reciprocating governments. It’s stupid to have policies, which push people out of the banking system. They want everyone in the soon to be global) banking system. This has to be government to government. FACTA is not for American’s abroad, it’s applying pressure for governments to work together using these methods to tax their own non-resident citizens. True Christians (not the “Christianist American pseudo-spiritual bs[ers]” mentioned above) should know these things from their Bible, and certainly put the biblical solutions into effect in their lives–now, not later–and share those solutions with others. Show, by example, that true Christianity is relevant!
I wouldn\t worry about the nerds that sit behind computers and hack out stupid comments. The internet has been their solution to socialization. It isn\t representative of the population.
@Atticusincanada, I hate to say this, but you are doing the right thing by renouncing US citizenship. The comments made there are disgusting.
I hope you’re right Mark Twain, that they aren’t representative of the population. Unfortunately though, neither are US lawmakers.
US homelanders will only start to “get it” (if ever) as the numbers of people renouncing citizenship — or wanting to renounce it — keep going up. A crunch will come when large numbers of USers living outside the country can no longer get banking service and US consulates are unable to handle the demand for appointments to renounce. What will happen then?
I mean that as a serious question, but I can’t resist the speculation that the US might mount rescue missions to bring its stranded citizens back to the Homeland, thereby justifying its citizenship-based taxation 🙂
I think Swisspinoy is right. Comment sections are not representative
But given the fact that the mass media that reaches the most people is television or video-based, it’s not likely that homelanders will be getting the correct information about what is going on any time soon.
Like AnonAnon, I am a bit worried about the ability of expats to renounce, if they choose to, in the future as banking access issues make it impossible to live outside the US. It’s really not as simple as “going home” to the US b/c for many, the US was never there home or hasn’t been for so long that there really is nothing to go back to.
Consulate access for expatriation services could likely become the next expat issue on the heels of FATCA. From a Constitutional standpoint, Americans can not be denied the right but by slowly the process to a point where it can take years to accomplish due to consulate appointment shortages and/or jacking up the cost a bit, Americans could fairly effectively be held hostage.
It could also present a special problem for young people, who are already tied to an arbitrary time constraint between age 18 and 18 1/2 in order to renounce without any IRS paperwork. And without being in the US, it can’t be challenged in their court system.
The old adage “there is more than one way to skin a cat” is one that America knows well and excels at.
@Yoga Girl
Just a reminder.. before age 18… 7 FAM Exhibit 1292
A SAMPLE LETTER TO ACCOMPANY CLN FOR MINOR RENUNCIANTS
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/120538.pdf
(Never say Never)
@AnonAnon, I also think that the number of renunciations is crucial to make them pay attention to the problem. Since the FOIA and Data.gov requests weren’t getting anywhere, I decided to try to obtain the information through a congressional assistant. She was able to contact the Department of State and convince them to provide the data. I’m expecting a response soon.
@Yoga Girl
I already feel as though I’m being held hostage. My husband and I don’t want to renounce until we can support 5 years of tax compliance. We’ve already filed 2 years of returns since entering OVDI, but until we can progress by either opting out or being moved into Streamlined, those additional years are in limbo. With the possibility of an IRS shut down looking more like a reality, we may NEVER move through the system. At 21 months in OVDI with still no response from the IRS, the waiting has already gone beyond what’s acceptable, so what’s an additional few years?
I share your concern about the small window that’s available for young people to renounce US citizenship.
@Benedict, my daughter thinks it can happen and I will support her efforts, but I worry about the US simply using the technicality to trap her for as long as they can. It’s unfair, and makes no sense, that parents can take their children to other countries and naturalize them as minors and that’s okay but the reverse is not allowed.
The idea that citizenship is something sacred is absurd. Citizenship is nothing more than the legal right to live somewhere and enjoy the rights and privileges provided by that country’s governing system.
But, humans have a tendency to deify everything and governance is not exempted even though government is at its simplest level a way to organize societies and keep people from defaulting back to tribalism as much as possible.
Shadow Raider, you rock!
@Shadow Raider -your comment September 17, 2013 at 10:20 am-I can’t wait to see the Department of State statistics on CLNs. any bets? 10,000 per year on citizens alone? + tens of thousands of formal LPR [GreenCard] handbacks? MUHLAH!!
@YogaGirl
“Consulate access for expatriation services …….slowing the process to a point where it can take years to accomplish due to consulate appointment shortages and/or jacking up the cost a bit, Americans[ will] fairly effectively be held hostage. ”
chilling. I think you may be psychic.
Folks it is already happening on the ground. I took a call last week from an American friend who is in process of obtaining british citizenship preparatory to renouncing. a certain UK high st bank had already sent her a letter saying if you don’t prove you are not USP or sign your info/rights away we will either close your account or take 30%. needless to say-she closed her account and is in the process of withdrawing all monies from USA. She is living day to day waiting for her british nationality, then the ceremony, then the first time passport application, then renunciation. but until she gets her British nationality she is effectively hostage to USG .
my heart bleeds. she is going through the same thing I went through in 2012 and am only now starting to recover from -panic attacks, crying jags , [clinical depression] , not sleeping, not eating, every day worrying if the IRS will find her in spite of living 45 years in the UK . All I can do is be there for her and assure her she is taking the right steps to secure her own future and that it WILL get better.
Sickening. absolutely gut wrenching. and the thing that really guts me is that it is so unnecessary. America is killing its own assets abroad and doesn’t care. Sauve qui peut.
@ Atticus in canda “They just really, really will never get it” . too true. too sad
Strength and honour @ brockers. you keep me going.
@crystal, obtaining citizenship here in Canada is slowly becoming a years long wait and then there is the slow clogging (and outright obstruct in Vancouver) of the renunciation process via American consulates. A lot of us are going to end up losing banking services before we can return to the relative normalcy of just being a citizen of the country where we actually live.
Right now our politicians here are looking at this strictly as a tax issue (and to some extant the compliance industry that is springing up all around us see it that way too) but it’s really about living a normal life. Being able to pay bills, school fees, shop for essentials and to save for retirement and pay the mortgage. We aren’t multinational companies that purposely set up for the avoidance of taxes. We just want a checking account at the local bank that we can share with our spouses and to be able to use a credit or debit card. We don’t owe the US taxes and the CRA already shares info about us with the IRS.
No one gets it who isn’t going through it and I don’t think anyone in a position to help really cares much about the reality.
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